RobertS975
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Air Force One Route Home from Singapore

Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:40 pm

As far as I know, AF1 flew from Quebec to Singapore via Crete. However, on the way back to the USA, it made a middle of the night stop in Guam, and after 90 minutes, it took off apparently headed for a pit stop in HNL. Anyone have a clue as to the reason for so many stops on the way back to the USA?

https://www.postguam.com/news/local/air ... 2fddf.html
 
deltalaw
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Re: Air Force One Route Home from Singapore

Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:45 pm

Crete? I am really surprised that they would fly eastbound to get to SIN. Do you have a source for that routing?

It does seem that SIN-Andrews could have been done with just the one stop though.
 
B777LRF
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Re: Air Force One Route Home from Singapore

Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:57 pm

deltalaw wrote:
Crete? I am really surprised that they would fly eastbound to get to SIN. Do you have a source for that routing?

It does seem that SIN-Andrews could have been done with just the one stop though.


Flying eastbound gives you the benefit of a tailwind much of the way, which isn't insignificant when you're traveling half-way around the world. Same reason SQ almost exclusively flew their SIN-JFK-SIN heading east all the way across the world.

What surprises me is the number of refuelling stops on the way back. Why both Guam and Honolulu, did they run out of cheeseburgers?
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Runway28L
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Re: Air Force One Route Home from Singapore

Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:02 pm

deltalaw wrote:
Crete? I am really surprised that they would fly eastbound to get to SIN. Do you have a source for that routing?

It does seem that SIN-Andrews could have been done with just the one stop though.

No headwinds going eastbound... makes perfect sense for them to go TATL to SIN and TPAC on the way back to ADW.

There is a thread in Military/Space that discussed the flightpath to SIN.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1395605

Edit: Looks like they used QPG instead of SIN.
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KICT
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Re: Air Force One Route Home from Singapore

Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:10 pm

Air Force One is not a civilian aircraft, so it is bizarre why this thread is here.
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: Air Force One Route Home from Singapore

Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:16 pm

I would like to know why the two stops on the way home as well. Seems like it could be done eastbound with one stop, even with heavy loads.
Whatever
 
airzona11
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Re: Air Force One Route Home from Singapore

Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:28 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
I would like to know why the two stops on the way home as well. Seems like it could be done eastbound with one stop, even with heavy loads.


The plane is VIP config, but not light. There are also inherent risk calculations with maxing out the fuel tanks/weight, certainly over water. Plus, it wouldn't be surprising to shake some hands at one of those pit stops.
 
qblue
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Re: Air Force One Route Home from Singapore

Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:40 pm

The Guam, HNL route was to avoid Canadian airspace. A squadron of Canada goose out to get Air Force One.
 
RobertS975
Topic Author
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Re: Air Force One Route Home from Singapore

Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:42 pm

deltalaw wrote:
Crete? I am really surprised that they would fly eastbound to get to SIN. Do you have a source for that routing?

It does seem that SIN-Andrews could have been done with just the one stop though.


https://twitter.com/W7VOA/status/1005603848801546240
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: Air Force One Route Home from Singapore

Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:59 pm

airzona11 wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
I would like to know why the two stops on the way home as well. Seems like it could be done eastbound with one stop, even with heavy loads.


The plane is VIP config, but not light. There are also inherent risk calculations with maxing out the fuel tanks/weight, certainly over water. Plus, it wouldn't be surprising to shake some hands at one of those pit stops.


I certainly get that it isn't light (many things on board that are very heavy). If he were doing it to shake some hands, I certainly understand. I was just curious though if that's indeed the reason for the multiple stops.

Also, how is there an inherent risk maxing out the fuel tanks/weight over the ocean? If it's within it's MTOW, how is there any additional risk?
Whatever
 
airzona11
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Re: Air Force One Route Home from Singapore

Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:17 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
I would like to know why the two stops on the way home as well. Seems like it could be done eastbound with one stop, even with heavy loads.


The plane is VIP config, but not light. There are also inherent risk calculations with maxing out the fuel tanks/weight, certainly over water. Plus, it wouldn't be surprising to shake some hands at one of those pit stops.


I certainly get that it isn't light (many things on board that are very heavy). If he were doing it to shake some hands, I certainly understand. I was just curious though if that's indeed the reason for the multiple stops.

Also, how is there an inherent risk maxing out the fuel tanks/weight over the ocean? If it's within it's MTOW, how is there any additional risk?


Climb rate, etc are all factors they use. Another reason is they keep higher fuel reserves vs commercial planes, so given the routing being literally the other side of the globe, it is just the conservative nature of the flight plans.
 
Chaostheory
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Re: Air Force One Route Home from Singapore

Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:04 pm

Anyone know how many pilots and FEs they carry on these flights?
 
Flighty
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Re: Air Force One Route Home from Singapore

Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:11 pm

Was the runway at the base in Singapore adequate to make Honolulu? At 6,700 miles it is within known VC-25 capabilities, especially Eastbound AFAIK. No issue there.

Was there a mission reason to stop at Guam?

Why not stop at ANC instead of HNL? It would save several hours and 1,500 miles.
 
echster
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Re: Air Force One Route Home from Singapore

Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:17 pm

White House Press Office stated the stops in Guam and HNL were so POTUS could visit the troops.
 
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United_fan
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Re: Air Force One Route Home from Singapore

Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:11 pm

echster wrote:
White House Press Office stated the stops in Guam and HNL were so POTUS could visit the troops.

Bingo. That's out correct answer.
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Utnapishtim
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Re: Air Force One Route Home from Singapore

Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:40 pm

He definitely could have made it to Hawaii. He likely touched down at Anderson, Guam to wish them good will (met with the governor on board), since it's the U.S. territory most threatened by North Korea - https://www.guampdn.com/story/news/2018 ... 693413002/ The shortest way would have been the great circle route - refueling at Elmendorf AFB, Anchorage - then flying over Canada to DC. But who knows maybe he decided to diss Trudeau again on this one.
 
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cathay747
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Re: Air Force One Route Home from Singapore

Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:40 pm

KICT wrote:
Air Force One is not a civilian aircraft, so it is bizarre why this thread is here.


Yeah, and this website is called AIRLINERS.net, yet all the time the home page is plastered with pics of military aircraft, which I will NEVER understand...I mean, which is it? AIRLINERS.net or MILITARY.net? Either change the name of this site to something else more reflective of aviation in general or create a separate site just for military.

At least AF1 is a 747 at heart.
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Moose135
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Re: Air Force One Route Home from Singapore

Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:28 pm

cathay747 wrote:
At least AF1 is a 747 at heart.

Except when POTUS is flying in the C-32, then it's a 757 at heart...
:D
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neutrino
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Re: Air Force One Route Home from Singapore

Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:32 pm

Moose135 wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
At least AF1 is a 747 at heart.

Except when POTUS is flying in the C-32, then it's a 757 at heart...
:D

For that matter, since 1953, any USAF plane carrying POTUS will bear the official ATC callsign of Air Force One.

Even a C-130 became an Air Force One in 1997 when the president transferred to it in midair......oops, that happened only in the movie starring Han Solo, err I mean Harrison Ford. ;)
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737tanker
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Re: Air Force One Route Home from Singapore

Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:33 am

In fact I knew a retired C-130 pilot who flew a C-130 as AF1 . It was when LBJ flew back from Vietnam and he stopped in ANC to get fuel. He wanted to see the DEW line and the only way that could be done was with a C-130
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Air Force One Route Home from Singapore

Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:29 pm

C-17s were AF1 during the Bosnian conflict a few times. Had a crew and plane identified whenever the WHMO gave a heads-up to Scott.

GF
 
RetiredWeasel
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Re: Air Force One Route Home from Singapore

Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:18 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
C-17s were AF1 during the Bosnian conflict a few times. Had a crew and plane identified whenever the WHMO gave a heads-up to Scott.

GF

Have any sources for that? Clinton visited Bosnia 3 times after the conflict, the first one in 1996. Don't know if he flew in a C-17 then. The C-17 wasn't even operational till '95.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Air Force One Route Home from Singapore

Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:24 am

I was at several of the meetings those missions were scheduled at. Source enough? If not, the NYT should do.

https://www.nytimes.com/1996/01/14/worl ... -gi-s.html

GF
 
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kc135topboom
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Re: Air Force One Route Home from Singapore

Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:06 pm

Crete still doesn't make sense to me. Great circle from Crete to SIN takes you over Syria, Iraq, Iran and India. Somehow I doubt that Syria and Iran would be very happy allowing Air Force-1 to over fly their countries, not to mention many parts of Syria are still active war zones. This route is about 4400 nm.
To fly a route south of GC would add about 1500 to 2000 nm to the flight and go over Israel, Jorden, Saudi Arabia, Oman, and the Indian Ocean. But that is still well with the range of the VC-25A without air refueling. This route is about 6500 nm depending on where you put your turn point from SE to E. Yes, I know the range for the VC-25A is publicly listed as 7300 nm, but it is actually closer to 8500 nm.
 
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kc135topboom
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Re: Air Force One Route Home from Singapore

Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:10 pm

RetiredWeasel wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
C-17s were AF1 during the Bosnian conflict a few times. Had a crew and plane identified whenever the WHMO gave a heads-up to Scott.

GF

Have any sources for that? Clinton visited Bosnia 3 times after the conflict, the first one in 1996. Don't know if he flew in a C-17 then. The C-17 wasn't even operational till '95.


One of those C-17 visits was Hillary Clinton when she was Secratary of State. It would have carried a SAAM call sign, not AF-1. Remember she and Chelsea had to dodge sniper fire after they landed? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

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