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flyingturtle
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Re: Switzerland Restarting Fighter Competition

Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:13 pm

art wrote:
Subsonic interceptor problem: the air force may not be able to catch up with an aircraft travelling at 800+ kilometres per hour. If your interceptor cannot intercept potential threats a lot of the time it is not very useful IMO.


Tell me again how that works in Switzerland, which is about 200 x 120 nautical miles big. If you want to crash an airplane into a building in Zurich, just declare mayday or a missed approach at ZRH and 4.3 nm later you're there.
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
art
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Re: Switzerland Restarting Fighter Competition

Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:16 pm

flyingturtle wrote:
art wrote:
Subsonic interceptor problem: the air force may not be able to catch up with an aircraft travelling at 800+ kilometres per hour. If your interceptor cannot intercept potential threats a lot of the time it is not very useful IMO.


Tell me again how that works in Switzerland, which is about 200 x 120 nautical miles big. If you want to crash an airplane into a building in Zurich, just declare mayday or a missed approach at ZRH and 4.3 nm later you're there.


Agreed, Switzerland is not a large country and I think a subsonic fighter on the ground would have problems trying to catch up with an aircraft heading away from the fighter base at 800 kph. I'm not saying a supersonic fighter would always catch up but with a 1000 kph or so speed advantage (F/A-18/Rafale/Typhoon/F-35) a supersonic fighter would be much. much more likely to succeed.

Since the Germanwings crash it is not so easy to deliberately crash an airliner if the cockpit always has at least 2 people in it. I think that is the rule now, isn't it? No pilot can leave the cockpit unless another crew member enters the cockpit to prevent the possibility of the second pilot being locked out.
 
rlwynn
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Re: Switzerland Restarting Fighter Competition

Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:54 am

The M346 seems to be at the top of non afterburning jets. 1200kmh and over 20,000fpm climb.
I can drive faster than you
 
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seahawk
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Re: Switzerland Restarting Fighter Competition

Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:26 am

Which still has no chance to intercept an airline at Mach 0.8 and 35.000 feet. In addition the Swiss also desire to be able to intercept other fighter aircraft as well and provide control of the airspace in times of conflict.
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: Switzerland Restarting Fighter Competition

Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:52 pm

art wrote:
Since the Germanwings crash it is not so easy to deliberately crash an airliner if the cockpit always has at least 2 people in it. I think that is the rule now, isn't it? No pilot can leave the cockpit unless another crew member enters the cockpit to prevent the possibility of the second pilot being locked out.


I don't have aggressive tendencies, but I don't know about other people and their capacity to incapacitate their colleagues in close quarter combat...

seahawk wrote:
Which still has no chance to intercept an airline at Mach 0.8 and 35.000 feet. In addition the Swiss also desire to be able to intercept other fighter aircraft as well and provide control of the airspace in times of conflict.


Yeah, but that capability is ultra-expensive for such a small country. In the case of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian ... Flight_702 a French Mirage escorted the hi-jacked 767 over Switzerland. They should pool their resources and establish command procedures that would allow a shootdown over the respective neighboring country, if this would ever be needed.

During the Cold War, Swiss doctrine envisioned battling Warsaw Pact forces over Germany and Austria, and not so much over Switzerland itself.
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
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seahawk
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Re: Switzerland Restarting Fighter Competition

Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:57 pm

If you let NATO fighters control your airspace regularly your neutrality goes away. It would make a lot of sense to pool a fighter fleet with Austria though.
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: Switzerland Restarting Fighter Competition

Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:56 pm

seahawk wrote:
If you let NATO fighters control your airspace regularly your neutrality goes away. It would make a lot of sense to pool a fighter fleet with Austria though.


We have updated the meaning of our neutrality quite frequently. Strictly speaking, Swiss neutrality only applies to blocs (e.g. the Western and the Eastern blocs during the Cold War) or to countries that are waging war without a UN/OSCE mandate. Having German fighters fly over Switzerland and vice versa would be less problematic than our arms dealing with Saudi Arabia, for example. We at least share the same values and face the same security problems.
Reading accident reports is what calms me down

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