DocLightning wrote:

For once I agree with Mr. Trump (well, kinda). The current livery looks extremely anachronistic.

I think that there is probably a tasteful way to update to a more modern look while respecting the lineage of the livery.

And do you think Mr Trump could pull that off?

questions wrote:

DocLightning wrote:

For once I agree with Mr. Trump (well, kinda). The current livery looks extremely anachronistic.

I think that there is probably a tasteful way to update to a more modern look while respecting the lineage of the livery.

And do you think Mr Trump could pull that off?

Considering President Trump wouldn't be designing it, nor have the final say, no.

Slug71 wrote:

Considering President Trump wouldn't be designing it, nor have the final say, no.

We know that how? I have little doubt he won't be laying marker to sketchpad; but it seems he knows what he wants. And he's clearly in a position to get what he wants. And he's fond enough of himself to be sure he knows best what it should look like. As I said above, with all the available evidence of the man's tastes, this can't end well. Perhaps we'll hear there's going to be a design competition among top design firms and that the results would be judged by somebody besides a Trump. That seems unlikely.

as long doesn't put trump on the plane fine by me

weekendppl wrote:

Slug71 wrote:

Considering President Trump wouldn't be designing it, nor have the final say, no.

We know that how? I have little doubt he won't be laying marker to sketchpad; but it seems he knows what he wants. And he's clearly in a position to get what he wants. And he's fond enough of himself to be sure he knows best what it should look like. As I said above, with all the available evidence of the man's tastes, this can't end well. Perhaps we'll hear there's going to be a design competition among top design firms and that the results would be judged by somebody besides a Trump. That seems unlikely.

It's the Air Force's planes. Not belong to the President or the white house or have anything to do with Trump. They transport the President (or sometimes VP) from point A to point B.
Give the anti-trump proganda a break.

wiggy wrote:

as long doesn't put trump on the plane fine by me

Doesn't sound like he's your President anyway. No offense.

Tugger wrote:

weekendppl wrote:

BTW, Raymond Loewy, a professional at this sort of thing, did the 1962 design pro bono. Mr. Trump probably won't be able to get anybody to do a new one that cheaply. Unless he and his kids color something up in crayon while sitting around a table at Mar A Lago.

Actually I almost guarantee it could be done for free as many people as well as agency's would love to be credited with a successful livery! This is as big and global as it gets.

While I see no reason to change the current design (I like it fine), it is always nice to see a new well done livery (there are just so few).

So does anyone have any designs they've done that they'd like to share? We always see them offered when an airline is doing one, someone must have one. I love to see some.

Tugg

The Current Trump White House is having a massive problem finding people to work there. Any other POTUS basically had people breaking down the door to apply for any position in the White House, even Bush II. But not Trump. Even people that have worked there are having huge issues finding jobs afterwards.

They may find someone who will do it pro-bono but they won't be the best the country has to offer.

As for a redesign, what a waste of effort. The existing one is perfectly modest and suits what should be a diplomatic aircraft. Trump saying the new one will be red, white, and blue just makes me think of Team America.

Like wanting “g*d damn steam” catapults on the USS Ford, someone from the White House military office will take him quietly aside and explain the real world to him.

The decision on the livery of the aircraft may be able to be pushed down the road. But if you are to integrate the external colors with the internal colors of the aircraft, then the color scheme should be decided soon in order for the requirements to be flowed to the suppliers.

bt

Slug71 wrote:

It's the Air Force's planes. Not belong to the President or the white house or have anything to do with Trump. They transport the President (or sometimes VP) from point A to point B.
Give the anti-trump proganda a break.

There's nothing Anti-Trump Propaganda about it. He's the commander-in-chief. If he orders the Air Force to paint it purple, purple it will be. What's Anti-Trump about saying that? It's how it works. What's Pro-Trump about denying that he's the commander-in-chief? Jackie Kennedy wanted Loewy's livery. She got it. (And she wasn't even President.) If Trump wants something crap-tastic--or bigly beautiful strong--he'll get it.

Go Trumpster!

Let's have something really classy, like this:

petertenthije wrote:

Who cares what Trump wants. By the time the new AF1 is done Trump will have been replaced. As prebennorholm already mentioned, these military procurement projects take ages. The next president will get to decide on the paintjob.

As others have mentioned, Trump has full jurisdiction over the Air Force. Trump will be the President until some day in January 2025 (unless the Democrats somehow manage to pull a miracle candidate out of the hat which I don't see happening, all they have lined up for 2020 are absolute rock bottom). So unless you imply that even the design will not happen until then, I don't quite get your point here.

It would make sense to re-paint the current ones.

neomax wrote:

Current look is pretty classy. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

https://www.axios.com/donald-trump-new- ... 67488.html

This is a horrible idea, it's super tacky like he had the Fox News graphics arts dept design this..

How about something based on the Thunderbirds.

snasteve wrote:

neomax wrote:

Current look is pretty classy. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

https://www.axios.com/donald-trump-new- ... 67488.html

This is a horrible idea, it's super tacky like he had the Fox News graphics arts dept design this..

It's an 'artist's rendition, not what Trump actually wants to do. Nobody knows what Trump has in mind for the livery.

Two things from the article stand out:

"JFK and Jackie Kennedy approved that timeless design (created pro bono by the premier mid-20th century industrial designer Raymond Loewy) to replace an earlier version of Air Force One that had simply said 'MILITARY AIR TRANSPORT SERVICE' and which made conspicuous use of the color orange, which Kennedy rightfully found 'gaudy.'"

One could argue that Trump may have the exact same view point. It's possible people at the time found the old livery just as iconic as people find the current livery. (I obviously don't know if that is the case, just making an observation) I personally have always found the current livery rather bland and boring.

"Anyone who doubts how strongly Americans feel about the way Air Force One looks should go to the Reagan Library in California and see how many people go there to look at the plane that Ronald Reagan flew on while he was President."

This is purely anecdotal. People don't go to the plane to see the livery. They go to see the plane Reagan flew in. This would be like saying I went to the Museum of flight in seattle to see the red paint on the barn that Boeing first started out of, or the livery of Kennedy's air force one. No, I went to go see the toilet that Kennedy once sat on at some point. Clearly.

787Driver wrote:

Well it could need a refresh. I also don't like that light blue color. Just because it's 50 years old doesn't make it iconic.

All due respect, this aircraft does not belong to an airline. Technically, it doesn't belong to Trump either. This should not be up to one individuals choice.

Red, white and blue he says ! So anywhere between the old Boeing 80's/90's house colours and the America West 'Ohio' 757 ? Maybe the Braniff Calder 727 could be replicated on the big bird ?

FrmrKSEngr wrote:

How about something based on the Thunderbirds.

The British animated series????

The new airplanes will be designated as VC-25Bs, the current VC-25As will revert to a back-up role, as the VC-137Cs did when the VC-25s came on line back in the late 1980s.


The Jackie Kennedy design is nearly 60 years old. It is outdated on the VC-25A, C-32A, and C-40B. No one has said if Melania Trump will have a hand in the design, or not. Her sense of fashion is just as good, if not better than Jackie Kennedy. This is the 21st century, it is time to retire the 20th century livery.


All we know is it is going to be red, white, and blue, other than that everything is open. We also don't know if the current VC-25As will sport the new livery before the VC-25B comes out, or not. The "A"s will be in for repaint before the 2024 date for the new airplanes. A strip and repaint is part of their PDM, which is always done at Boeing.


I hope the new livery will fit as well on the VC-25, C-32, C-37, C-40, and any future presidential airplane as the Kennedy livery did on the VC-137s and VC-135s.


BTW, Casey-01, KC-135E 57-2589 looks like this variant of the Kennedy livery now.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... pe=3&ifg=1

kanban wrote:

FrmrKSEngr wrote:

How about something based on the Thunderbirds.

The British animated series????

No, The USAF Air Demonstration Sqdn. Red white and blue party favors.

kc135topboom wrote:

No one has said if Melania Trump will have a hand in the design, or not. Her sense of fashion is just as good, if not better than Jackie Kennedy.

Something tells me that Melania is smart enough not to get corralled into this potential political mine field. Where as President Trump's ego is too large to avoid stepping in to it.

Best thing for the process is to have multiple concept/design created by various contributors. The Air Force select 3 - 4 potential finalist and the final design is selected by bi-partisan committee or voted by the general public (similar to how the USPS stamps are voted upon).

bt

itisi wrote:

Let me guess... featuring lots of gold and orange .....

The best paint with 24K gold in it. I suppose he’s looking at the interior of an Emirates plane as we speak.

bob75013 wrote:

itisi wrote:

Let me guess... featuring lots of gold and orange .....

With a stylized T on the vertical stabilizer -- ala his personal 757. After all it is H IS plane for at least the next two years.

I was going to to say a portrait of his face on the tail. Much like Alaska’s tail.

bikerthai wrote:

Something tells me that Melania is smart enough not to get corralled into this potential political mine field. Where as President Trump's ego is too large to avoid stepping in to it.

Best thing for the process is to have multiple concept/design created by various contributors. The Air Force select 3 - 4 potential finalist and the final design is selected by bi-partisan committee or voted by the general public (similar to how the USPS stamps are voted upon).

bt

Well said,

It's really not something that should be political. The livery is outdated. A refresh would be nice. Had President Obama suggested it the left would be celebrating the progressiveness of updating the old and outdated livery while the right would have cried foul for changing an iconic piece of America's identity.

I highly doubt it will be something flashy. Keep in mind as noted above that each of the VIP planes goes through a PDM procress every 4 years for a complete overhaul inside and out - including stripping and repainting the exterior. Anything too complicate will just add cost that the Air Force won't like to incur. I suspect the design won't be much different than it is now, just with a more patriotic theme.

a little bit off topic but there is someone who can explain to me how it's possible to save $1.4 billion for 2 already-built 747-8s when the list price is $400M?

The USAF says it will save more than $1.4 billion by using already-built 747-8s

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ns-450587/

queb wrote:

a little bit off topic but there is someone who can explain to me how it's possible to save $1.4 billion for 2 already-built 747-8s when the list price is $400M?

The USAF says it will save more than $1.4 billion by using already-built 747-8s

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ns-450587/

Either Boeing took a little advantage of the White House....or the VC25 has some pretty expensive features....!

kc135topboom wrote:

The new airplanes will be designated as VC-25Bs, the current VC-25As will revert to a back-up role, as the VC-137Cs did when the VC-25s came on line back in the late 1980s.


The Jackie Kennedy design is nearly 60 years old. It is outdated on the VC-25A, C-32A, and C-40B. No one has said if Melania Trump will have a hand in the design, or not. Her sense of fashion is just as good, if not better than Jackie Kennedy. This is the 21st century, it is time to retire the 20th century livery.


All we know is it is going to be red, white, and blue, other than that everything is open. We also don't know if the current VC-25As will sport the new livery before the VC-25B comes out, or not. The "A"s will be in for repaint before the 2024 date for the new airplanes. A strip and repaint is part of their PDM, which is always done at Boeing.


I hope the new livery will fit as well on the VC-25, C-32, C-37, C-40, and any future presidential airplane as the Kennedy livery did on the VC-137s and VC-135s.


BTW, Casey-01, KC-135E 57-2589 looks like this variant of the Kennedy livery now.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... pe=3&ifg=1

He should bring back the tulip, the bowling shoe, or the old LH livery on AF1

Would make a lot of people happy, and a few people promote a boycott of UA (for some reason)

kc135topboom wrote:

The new airplanes will be designated as VC-25Bs, the current VC-25As will revert to a back-up role, as the VC-137Cs did when the VC-25s came on line back in the late 1980s.


The Jackie Kennedy design is nearly 60 years old. It is outdated on the VC-25A, C-32A, and C-40B. No one has said if Melania Trump will have a hand in the design, or not. Her sense of fashion is just as good, if not better than Jackie Kennedy. This is the 21st century, it is time to retire the 20th century livery.


All we know is it is going to be red, white, and blue, other than that everything is open. We also don't know if the current VC-25As will sport the new livery before the VC-25B comes out, or not. The "A"s will be in for repaint before the 2024 date for the new airplanes. A strip and repaint is part of their PDM, which is always done at Boeing.


I hope the new livery will fit as well on the VC-25, C-32, C-37, C-40, and any future presidential airplane as the Kennedy livery did on the VC-137s and VC-135s.


BTW, Casey-01, KC-135E 57-2589 looks like this variant of the Kennedy livery now.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... pe=3&ifg=1

Fact check on your "A strip and repaint is part of their PDM, which is always done at Boeing."

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Presi ... 63391.html

queb wrote:

a little bit off topic but there is someone who can explain to me how it's possible to save $1.4 billion for 2 already-built 747-8s when the list price is $400M?

The USAF says it will save more than $1.4 billion by using already-built 747-8s

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ns-450587/

There is a very high cost to having to double check and oversee and watch the entire planning, procurement, and build process. Secret service and military oversight almost doubles the cost.

Tugg

queb wrote:

is someone who can explain to me how it's possible to save $1.4 billion for 2 already-built 747-8s when the list price is $400M?

It's called bait and switch or bad reporting. From what I understand, the Air Force budgeted $5+ billions for the program. The final negotiated is a little less than $4 billions. As I recall even before president Trump stepped in and the selection of the used frame, the contract may have been slightly above $ 4 billions - check the press clipping. So you are savings some by reducing the statement of work and taking the used air frame. But taking credit for the whole $1 billion savings is just more obfuscation.

And besides, the 4 billion is just the current best guest estimate. Many of us here expect the price will go up as the program progress and issue arise. It will be a pleasant surprised if the plane can be completed under the current agreed upon budget.

bt

Something like that would be smashing.

The current livery is an iconic trademark for the US that made many historic visits. I would keep it. The lettering is taken from the US declaration of independence so no need to change that as well.

Maybe it's just me but the current livery even seems to have some hidden feature. The blue areas take away some of the signature bump and tail height if looking on the 747 from the front, like when landing. That is almost camouflage on approach like over hostile areas when that is needed most. On the ground it's chic and classy again. Again please keep it.

How about something like this?:

itchief wrote:

kc135topboom wrote:

The new airplanes will be designated as VC-25Bs, the current VC-25As will revert to a back-up role, as the VC-137Cs did when the VC-25s came on line back in the late 1980s.


The Jackie Kennedy design is nearly 60 years old. It is outdated on the VC-25A, C-32A, and C-40B. No one has said if Melania Trump will have a hand in the design, or not. Her sense of fashion is just as good, if not better than Jackie Kennedy. This is the 21st century, it is time to retire the 20th century livery.


All we know is it is going to be red, white, and blue, other than that everything is open. We also don't know if the current VC-25As will sport the new livery before the VC-25B comes out, or not. The "A"s will be in for repaint before the 2024 date for the new airplanes. A strip and repaint is part of their PDM, which is always done at Boeing.


I hope the new livery will fit as well on the VC-25, C-32, C-37, C-40, and any future presidential airplane as the Kennedy livery did on the VC-137s and VC-135s.


BTW, Casey-01, KC-135E 57-2589 looks like this variant of the Kennedy livery now.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... pe=3&ifg=1

Fact check on your "A strip and repaint is part of their PDM, which is always done at Boeing."

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Presi ... 63391.html

What kc135 said isn't wrong either. Boeing is the prime contractor during the PDM process. Plane is stripped, flown back to San Antonio and it is inspected inside and out. Any repairs, mods etc go on. Someone can correct me here but I don't believe San Antonio has the capabilities to paint a 747. Which is why in the example you provided it was taken up to Leading Edge Aviation to get the paint job. Nothing unusual here.

na wrote:

The current livery which he calls a "Jackie Kennedy color" is absolutely fine, the tailfin design aside. Jackie Kennedy was known for her exquisite taste.

The thing is, his wife wore a Jackie-Kennedy-like dress during his inauguration...

This is a trashy/redneck kind of livery. Very Trump kind of flavor and taste.
At least he didn't suggest the big fuselage will turn into advertisement area for his and/or Ivanka's businesses...

An225

That would be awesome, once he is president for life.

seahawk wrote:

That would be awesome, once he is president for life.

If that comes to pass, then why not his face on the vertical stabilizer like the Alaskan Airline Eskimo.

bt