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art
Posts: 4252
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: Tempest Fighter Jet Programme News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:25 pm

RJMAZ wrote:
art wrote:
What would you like UK (and France) to do?

Work together to build complimentary products not competing products. Splitting up a small market with competing products means everyone loses. Duplication of research and development costs and economy of scales reduces.

Agree entirely.

I think that one of the problems is that the military will not compromise on their requirements. Typhoon/Rafale, for example. Had a single design been produced using the same funds, a better aircraft would have been produced. Had a similar aircraft to both Typhoon/Rafale been designed, cost would have been lower for one aircraft rather than two.

RJMAZ wrote:
With any aviation project Europe simply has to add Boeing or Lockheed as a 25% partner and then have a separate US assembly line. The US will then buy the product no problems. Boeing or Lockheed will then provide input to sculpt the product into something the US will buy. Boeing and Lockheed will then campaign for it to be purchased like the F-15X for example.

The USAF has a demand for a Gripen sized fighter. Lots of European countries have demand for such an aircraft as either their primary fighter or a secondary fighter.

Also it can go the other way. The new US helicooter programs Europe could add SAAB, BAE or Dassault as a partner and give them a European assembly line.


Yup. Do this intelligently and the tax payer (he/she who pays for all military equipment) is a winner.
 
art
Posts: 4252
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: Tempest Fighter Jet Programme News and Discussion Thread

Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:41 am

UK Forces TV looking at Tempest man/machine task responsibility configuration research...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx-Rey3bA-M&t=838s

A speculative look at Tempest from a somewhat quirky presenter. Includes RR video...

Jump to 2m0s to avoid video intro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCf1ir6KHdU&t=52s
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14691
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Tempest Fighter Jet Programme News and Discussion Thread

Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:28 am

RJMAZ wrote:
Irt wrote:
Since the mockup of the FCAS was over 18m in length i doubt your claim of 90kn.. more likley they will be in the 120-140kn range. The Tempest mockup i havet not seen any figures for. Only a 1:48 modell plane, wich said it was 18.12m in length so its also likley will have engines in the 120-150kn range.

You are way off. The European designs just like the F-35 are trading thrust to weight ratio for significant fuel fraction. Range is much more important than being able to accelerate vertical at an air show. The SR-71 could cruise at Mach 3 with less than half of the thrust to weight ratio of the F-35. High thrust isn't needed to fly fast.

Part of being designed for supercruise means they are longer and skinnier with a high mach angle. A 18m long fuselage will result in similar volume and weights to the F-35.

The FCAS prototype is using small M88 engines. You can't grow a 75kn M88 sized engine up to 140kn thrust. It will hit 90kn at that size.


The M88 was designed to scale up to 105kN with the same core in the late 80s. The only reason it isn´t running 90kN for a long time is customers rather used margins to make the engine cheaper to operate.

Google for v002t02a004-90-gt-118.pdf (can´t be directly linked as it wants a token), Page 3

6 stage High Pressure (HP) compressor with three variable stator stages including a variable inlet guide vane, for better flow adaptation at any rotating speed. The number of stages are chosen for good surge margin and growth potential within the SNECMA M88 family, whose thrust range is 75 up to 105 kN with the same core engine;


And there has been 30+ years of material science since.

best regards
Thomas
 
BestIntellect
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:20 pm

Re: Tempest Fighter Jet Programme News and Discussion Thread

Sat Sep 04, 2021 5:01 pm

art wrote:

Yup. Do this intelligently and the tax payer (he/she who pays for all military equipment) is a winner.


When it comes to military procurement the tax payer loses no matter what, unless your whole goal is to set the country as backwards as you possibly can (in all fairness, that is the goal of most politicians).
 
art
Posts: 4252
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: Tempest Fighter Jet Programme News and Discussion Thread

Mon Nov 08, 2021 7:03 pm

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