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par13del
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:06 am

Let's talk about the boom actuator fix, the Air Force by agreeing to pay for the fix are acknowledging that they have something to do with the botch design, considering how they have not been shy to demand that Boeing fix other deficiencies without pay thus boosting the cost overrun.
I would look carefully at the financing being done by Boeing on this fix, yes the Air Force is strapped for cash, and yes Boeing may want to fix the issue sooner rather than later as it will make their production process simpler, however, I would suggest we watch closely to see that the financing is for the 55.5 million and the repayment by the Air Force is for that amount with a reasonable amount of interest.
Just saying...
 
Runway28L
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:54 pm

The 157th Air Refueling Wing has received their first KC-46 tanker.

https://www.unionleader.com/news/busine ... 4dadf.html
 
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747classic
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:48 am

In total three KC-46A aircraft were delivered :

L/N 1137 C/N 34110 B767-2LKC 17-46029 USAF KC-46A (VH029) LRIP 3, #06/15, tail 76029 was delivered to the 157th ARW (Pease Air National Guard Base, Portsmouth, New Hampshire) at August 08th with callsign PACK01.

The next day two tankers were delivered :

L/N 1160 C/N 34089 B767-2LKC 18-46039 USAF KC-46A (VH039) Lot 4, #01/18, N1785B, tail 86039 was delivered to the 22th ARW (Mc Connell Air Force Base Wichita, Kansas, USA ) at August 09th with callsign MDUSA09

L/N 1149 C/N 34114 B767-2LKC 17-46034 USAF KC-46A (VH034) LRIP3, #11/15, tail 76034 was delivered to the 157th ARW (Pease Air National Guard Base, Portsmouth, New Hampshire) at August 09th with callsign PACK02.
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JayinKitsap
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:22 pm

I'm confused with the KC-46 spreadsheet. It doesn't show the two July deliveries noted upthread, but it shows the 3 August deliveries. Is something off with the spreadsheet? Other questions are below the link:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... 2121076296

LN1102 was first flight on 12-5-17 and delivered on 1-25-19 but the rest of LN1098 - LN1116 still have not had first flight? Seems weird.
LN1117 to 1124 had first flights months, even over a year ago but none delivered in that group.
LN1126 to LN1154, except 1129 and 1132 are all delivered, why are the deliveries out of this middle group?
LN1156 to LN1172 all have 1st flights but only one delivery from this group.

It seems quite random the first flights and deliveries, is there any method to this madness?
 
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RobK
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:59 pm

That link is unreliable and much of it is guesswork.

46009 was the production test 'mule' and the first to hand over to the USAF, ie. leave Seattle.

46007-46016 are all in a state of rework from the USAF moving the goal posts.

46017-46021 were mostly done until the last moving of goal posts. 46017 and 46019 have been delivered to the tanker program but neither have flown since arriving at the MFC. 46018, 46020 and 46021 are all back at PAE being reworked.

46024 rework at PAE.

46038, 46040, 46041, 46042, 46043, 46044, 46045 have all delivered to the tanker program and are being QC'd at BFI before fly-away.

46041 and 46042 will probably be the next ones to leave imo.
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:31 am

RobK wrote:
That link is unreliable and much of it is guesswork.

46009 was the production test 'mule' and the first to hand over to the USAF, ie. leave Seattle.

46007-46016 are all in a state of rework from the USAF moving the goal posts.

46017-46021 were mostly done until the last moving of goal posts. 46017 and 46019 have been delivered to the tanker program but neither have flown since arriving at the MFC. 46018, 46020 and 46021 are all back at PAE being reworked.

46024 rework at PAE.

46038, 46040, 46041, 46042, 46043, 46044, 46045 have all delivered to the tanker program and are being QC'd at BFI before fly-away.

46041 and 46042 will probably be the next ones to leave imo.


Thank you for the good information.
 
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747classic
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:13 pm

JayinKitsap wrote:
RobK wrote:
That link is unreliable and much of it is guesswork.

46009 was the production test 'mule' and the first to hand over to the USAF, ie. leave Seattle.

46007-46016 are all in a state of rework from the USAF moving the goal posts.

46017-46021 were mostly done until the last moving of goal posts. 46017 and 46019 have been delivered to the tanker program but neither have flown since arriving at the MFC. 46018, 46020 and 46021 are all back at PAE being reworked.

46024 rework at PAE.

46038, 46040, 46041, 46042, 46043, 46044, 46045 have all delivered to the tanker program and are being QC'd at BFI before fly-away.

46041 and 46042 will probably be the next ones to leave imo.


Thank you for the good information.


For a more accurate overview, than the first link, see : https://tykesaeroblog.blogspot.com/p/us ... tatus.html
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747classic
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:04 pm

Latest assembled KC-46A, August 23th 2019
L/N 1192 C/N 41870 B767-2LKC 18-46052 USAF KC-46A (VH052) Lot 4, #12/18, tail 86052

Image

For a larger picture, see : http://kpae.blogspot.com/2019/08/paine- ... st-23.html
And scroll to the last picture and double click.
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747classic
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:23 pm

Two more deliveries :

L/N 1117, MSN 34108, 16-46017, KC-46A US Air Force delivery flight at 29th August 2019, BFI-Wichita IAB with callsign MDUSA12

L/N 1166, MSN 34090, 18-46042, KC-46A US Air Force delivery flight at 29th August 2019, BFI-Wichita IAB with callsign MDUSA11

See : https://tykesaeroblog.blogspot.com/sear ... l/DELIVERY
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RobK
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:49 pm

Nice! That makes 5 fly-aways thus far this month. I expect that 46046/ & 7 will transfer to the BDS Program in the coming days and fly down to BFI for pre-delivery checks now that a couple of stalls have been freed up. Looks like 46041 should be the next one to fly-away.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:10 pm

RobK wrote:
Nice! That makes 5 fly-aways thus far this month. I expect that 46046/ & 7 will transfer to the BDS Program in the coming days and fly down to BFI for pre-delivery checks now that a couple of stalls have been freed up. Looks like 46041 should be the next one to fly-away.


And according to the master list on that blog, that should make 17 actual deliveries flown to the USAF.
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RobK
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:21 pm

I count 18 unless I need to go back to school ! :crazy:
 
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RobK
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:41 pm

Boeing seem to be struggling with the counting as well!

https://twitter.com/BoeingDefense/statu ... 7935532032

:biggrin:
 
Ozair
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:06 am

Another Category One deficiency that has been discovered during OT&E. Great that they identified it before it became a flight issue for cargo or personnel on regular missions but another frustrating setback for the aircraft. Hopefully the fix is straight forward noting a reasonably large number of number of aircraft now that will likely have to be modified.

KC-46 Banned From Carrying Cargo, Passengers Due to Major New Deficiency

The Air Force will not allow its new tanker to carry personnel or cargo after several incidents in which cargo locks broke free during flight, prompting the service to issue another Category 1 deficiency for the troubled aircraft.

Air Mobility Command, working with the Air Force Operational Test and Evaluation Center and the KC-46 System Program Office, recently issued a Flight Crew Information File restricting the Pegasus from carrying cargo or passengers, AMC spokesman Col. Damien Pickart said in a release.

The restriction comes as AMC kicks off its largest-ever exercise here at Fairchild AFB, Wash., which includes all of its other refuelers and airlift aircraft while the KC-46 remains on the sideline.

The restriction was issued “following the discovery of cargo restraint devices coming unlocked during recent operational test and evaluation flight. These floor restraints prevent cargo and passenger pallets from shifting during flight, which might endanger the aircrew and aircraft,” Pickart said.

...

http://www.airforcemag.com/Features/Pag ... iency.aspx
 
mjoelnir
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:39 pm

Ozair wrote:
Another Category One deficiency that has been discovered during OT&E. Great that they identified it before it became a flight issue for cargo or personnel on regular missions but another frustrating setback for the aircraft. Hopefully the fix is straight forward noting a reasonably large number of number of aircraft now that will likely have to be modified.

KC-46 Banned From Carrying Cargo, Passengers Due to Major New Deficiency

The Air Force will not allow its new tanker to carry personnel or cargo after several incidents in which cargo locks broke free during flight, prompting the service to issue another Category 1 deficiency for the troubled aircraft.

Air Mobility Command, working with the Air Force Operational Test and Evaluation Center and the KC-46 System Program Office, recently issued a Flight Crew Information File restricting the Pegasus from carrying cargo or passengers, AMC spokesman Col. Damien Pickart said in a release.

The restriction comes as AMC kicks off its largest-ever exercise here at Fairchild AFB, Wash., which includes all of its other refuelers and airlift aircraft while the KC-46 remains on the sideline.

The restriction was issued “following the discovery of cargo restraint devices coming unlocked during recent operational test and evaluation flight. These floor restraints prevent cargo and passenger pallets from shifting during flight, which might endanger the aircrew and aircraft,” Pickart said.

...

http://www.airforcemag.com/Features/Pag ... iency.aspx


We have here the product of the superior design and production capabilities of Boeing. They design products, that fulfill the desire of the USA air force.
- Every frame is delivered with surprises of additional items in unexpected places.
- The superior design insures, that only refueling can be provided, that than is not disturbed by unnecessary freight and passenger transportation demands.
- The superior design of the probe and drogue system insures, that refueling operations by the Air Force are not troubled by unnecessary refueling demands by the Navy or Marine Corps.
- The superior design insures that in flying boom operation, stealth bombers and fighters are properly scratched, so everybody sees that they have been refueled.

This superior designs insures, that nobody will steal a K-46 and will leave an A330MRTT instead. Who wants an multi role tanker transport, when you can get a simple single role tanker? :sarcastic:
 
Ozair
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:46 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
Ozair wrote:
Another Category One deficiency that has been discovered during OT&E. Great that they identified it before it became a flight issue for cargo or personnel on regular missions but another frustrating setback for the aircraft. Hopefully the fix is straight forward noting a reasonably large number of number of aircraft now that will likely have to be modified.

KC-46 Banned From Carrying Cargo, Passengers Due to Major New Deficiency

The Air Force will not allow its new tanker to carry personnel or cargo after several incidents in which cargo locks broke free during flight, prompting the service to issue another Category 1 deficiency for the troubled aircraft.

Air Mobility Command, working with the Air Force Operational Test and Evaluation Center and the KC-46 System Program Office, recently issued a Flight Crew Information File restricting the Pegasus from carrying cargo or passengers, AMC spokesman Col. Damien Pickart said in a release.

The restriction comes as AMC kicks off its largest-ever exercise here at Fairchild AFB, Wash., which includes all of its other refuelers and airlift aircraft while the KC-46 remains on the sideline.

The restriction was issued “following the discovery of cargo restraint devices coming unlocked during recent operational test and evaluation flight. These floor restraints prevent cargo and passenger pallets from shifting during flight, which might endanger the aircrew and aircraft,” Pickart said.

...

http://www.airforcemag.com/Features/Pag ... iency.aspx


We have here the product of the superior design and production capabilities of Boeing. They design products, that fulfill the desire of the USA air force.
- Every frame is delivered with surprises of additional items in unexpected places.
- The superior design insures, that only refueling can be provided, that than is not disturbed by unnecessary freight and passenger transportation demands.
- The superior design of the probe and drogue system insures, that refueling operations by the Air Force are not troubled by unnecessary refueling demands by the Navy or Marine Corps.
- The superior design insures that in flying boom operation, stealth bombers and fighters are properly scratched, so everybody sees that they have been refueled.

This superior designs insures, that nobody will steal a K-46 and will leave an A330MRTT instead. Who wants an multi role tanker transport, when you can get a simple single role tanker? :sarcastic:

LOL, a bit dramatic mate. The whole purpose of OT&E is to identify these types of issues and get them fixed. No doubt this is another issue for Boeing that shouldn't have happened but Airbus had their own issues bringing the MRTT into service which have now stabilised and the platform is performing. I expect the same thing from the KC-46.
 
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kc135topboom
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:17 pm

https://www.defensenews.com/breaking-ne ... personnel/

Boeing, what's wrong with you?

Are the MD guys still running the show at Boeing?

Cargo floor locks are simple devices.

You didn't have this problem with the C-17.

So what did you change?
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:25 am

kc135topboom wrote:
https://www.defensenews.com/breaking-news/2019/09/11/air-force-restricts-kc-46-from-carrying-cargo-and-personnel/

Boeing, what's wrong with you?

Are the MD guys still running the show at Boeing?

Cargo floor locks are simple devices.

You didn't have this problem with the C-17.

So what did you change?


Maybe the C-17 cargo floor locks don't fit the 767F floor tracks? Something so simple should be adult proof.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:57 am

Cargo floor locks are pretty much standard off the shelf parts. They would be the same or similar for Boeing or Airbus. Perhaps military grade locks are different. Must be the cargo floor itself. Did Boeing use the commercial cargo floor? That would be different than the C-17 floor and may need to be tweeked when used with military pallets. But the commercial floors on the 747F is used with military pallets right? Just need fine tuning of the procedures perhaps.

bt
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Revelation
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:45 pm

kc135topboom wrote:
https://www.defensenews.com/breaking-news/2019/09/11/air-force-restricts-kc-46-from-carrying-cargo-and-personnel/

Boeing, what's wrong with you?

Are the MD guys still running the show at Boeing?

Cargo floor locks are simple devices.

You didn't have this problem with the C-17.

So what did you change?

Wait, those C-17s came from when those MD guys were totally in charge of MD.

bikerthai wrote:
Cargo floor locks are pretty much standard off the shelf parts. They would be the same or similar for Boeing or Airbus. Perhaps military grade locks are different. Must be the cargo floor itself. Did Boeing use the commercial cargo floor? That would be different than the C-17 floor and may need to be tweeked when used with military pallets. But the commercial floors on the 747F is used with military pallets right? Just need fine tuning of the procedures perhaps.

Much more fun to rant about Boeing than to question USAF procedures.

The KC-46 definitely uses the commercial aircraft's cargo floor, but IIRC its specifications changed based on the military spec just before KC-46 went in to production.

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mjoelnir
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:36 pm

Revelation wrote:
kc135topboom wrote:
https://www.defensenews.com/breaking-news/2019/09/11/air-force-restricts-kc-46-from-carrying-cargo-and-personnel/

Boeing, what's wrong with you?

Are the MD guys still running the show at Boeing?

Cargo floor locks are simple devices.

You didn't have this problem with the C-17.

So what did you change?

Wait, those C-17s came from when those MD guys were totally in charge of MD.

bikerthai wrote:
Cargo floor locks are pretty much standard off the shelf parts. They would be the same or similar for Boeing or Airbus. Perhaps military grade locks are different. Must be the cargo floor itself. Did Boeing use the commercial cargo floor? That would be different than the C-17 floor and may need to be tweeked when used with military pallets. But the commercial floors on the 747F is used with military pallets right? Just need fine tuning of the procedures perhaps.

Much more fun to rant about Boeing than to question USAF procedures.

The KC-46 definitely uses the commercial aircraft's cargo floor, but IIRC its specifications changed based on the military spec just before KC-46 went in to production.


So you explain the not working cargo floor, in regards to securing the pallets, with changes to the specifications. And that 8 years after Boeing got the acceptance of the bid. What were the changes after the acceptance of the bid and how many years ago?
 
DigitalSea
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:00 pm

AMC commander: Boeing has not made progress on KC-46

NATIONAL HARBOR, Md. — It’s been eight months since the U.S. Air Force accepted the first KC-46 tanker from Boeing, but the head of Air Mobility Command says the company hasn’t made progress on the aircraft’s biggest technical problem.

“When we accepted the KC-46 with known CAT 1 deficiencies, we did so with the belief that it offered the fastest route to achieve limited operational capability and meet an urgent war-fighter requirement,” Gen. Maryanne Miller said during a Wednesday roundtable at the Air Force Association’s conference. Miller used a shortened version of the term category 1, which the service uses to describe serious technical issues that impact safety or could result in the loss of an aircraft or life.

“Eight months have passed since our first delivery, and Boeing has not made any progress in addressing those CAT 1 deficiencies,” she added.

Click here to read more from the Air Force Association’s 2019 conference.

At issue is the tanker’s Remote Vision System, a Rockwell Collins-designed camera suite that allows operators to steer the boom into a receiver aircraft without physically watching the process through a window, as is the case with the legacy KC-10 and KC-135.

Currently, the RVS presents imagery that is distorted in certain lighting conditions, posing difficulties for boom operators and leading to incidents of accidental scraping of the surface of receiver aircraft with the boom — leading to two category 1 deficiencies.

According to Miller, Boeing needs to make progress in improving the “acuity” of the system, which currently presents imagery comparable to what a person with 15/20 vision would see. The company also needs to improve what Miller termed “depth plane compression,” which is how the user internalizes the distance between the boom and the receiver aircraft based on that imagery.

Boeing presented the Air Force with a “preliminary” redesign of the RVS that includes new hardware and software, Jamie Burgess, Boeing’s KC-46 program manager, told Defense News on Tuesday. The Air Force has not decided whether to accept it.

“The basics of the approach is to enhance the system so it provides more dynamic adjustment to contrast and varying environmental conditions,” he said. “It does more dynamic adjustment on its own, as opposed to the operator having to make adjustments. And then that's going to provide some enhancements as far as resolution.”

Burgess declined to say how much of system’s hardware must be replaced but did note that “key components” of the vision system would be changed.

“It's not just one thing, it's not just a camera or a display,” he said. “There are things throughout the system that will get adjusted. But we’re in the early phases of that.”

Miller said she has not personally been briefed on the redesign, but that she and Boeing officials have a discussion scheduled for Sept. 30. The newest category 1 deficiency, which Defense News first reported on Sept. 11, will also be a topic of conversation.

Last week, the Air Force put restrictions on the KC-46 that will keep it from being able to carry passengers and cargo for an indefinite period of time. The problem, which was discovered on a single tanker, was that multiple cargo restraint devices had became unlocked during a series of flights. Although the restraint devices did not completely open up and release the cargo, allowing it to roll freely throughout the cabin, AMC officials worried that such a scenario would pose considerable safety risks to personnel and potentially unbalance the plane during flight.

While the root cause is still under investigation, Boeing believes that the vibrations from flying or landing is creating friction between the rails of the cargo floor and the latch on the back of the lock, causing the latch to move to a position in which it is no longer fully engaged, Burgess said.



https://www.defensenews.com/digital-show-dailies/air-force-association/2019/09/18/amc-commander-boeing-has-not-made-progress-on-kc-46/
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:33 am

Oooof. Saying that publicly is a pretty solid slap in the face.
 
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747classic
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:11 pm

Some positive KC-46A news :
A USAF-led team has completed KC46A receiver certification testing with the C-5M Galaxy at Edwards Air Force Base.

Image

Original uploaded by Boeing Defence at twitter, see : https://twitter.com/BoeingDefense/statu ... 9372457984
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Revelation
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:44 pm

DigitalSea wrote:
“Eight months have passed since our first delivery, and Boeing has not made any progress in addressing those CAT 1 deficiencies,” she added.


It's interesting how different people in the same room heard this differently.

From https://www.chicagobusiness.com/manufac ... years-late

“Eight months have passed since our first delivery and Boeing has not made the needed progress in addressing” the major deficiencies with the Remote Vision System and the boom itself, Miller said.

To me there's a big difference between not making any progress on a problem versus making insufficient amount of progress.

The report from Jane's ( https://www.janes.com/article/91407/afa ... a-progress ) seems to agree with the Craine's article.

Craine's also gives Boeing's side of the story:

“We continue to work closely with the USAF and have a good path forward” on the Remote Vision System upgrade,” Boeing spokesman Chick Ramey said in a statement. “The team has an agreed-upon set of requirements, and we are in the process of finalizing the details of the system improvements. Our collaboration with the Air Force will ensure that the KC-46 is operationally capable and robust for decades to come.”

The later is my understanding of the situation.

Boeing delivered a solution it thought was acceptable, USAF disagreed, then it became clear that there was no agreed upon measurable standard to determine whether or not the solution was acceptable. Resolving this took months, but in the end an agreement was reached, and Boeing accepted that it had to fund the work to improve the system to an acceptable level.

Gen Miller has right to be frustrated. There are lots of planes being delivered with "20/50 vision" and will not be corrected for years and will need costly down time once the fixes are available.

Yet it does seem Boeing acknowledges the problem and is taking responsibility to resolve it.

Meanwhile:

The Air Force currently is withholding about $28 million, or 20% of each plane’s cost, from Boeing, or more than $500 million currently on the 19 planes delivered so far.
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747classic
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:03 pm

Assembly for Japan’s First KC-46A Begins :

The first wing spar for the Japanese KC-46A has been loaded.
Image

See : https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... af-program
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JayinKitsap
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:42 pm

Don't forget Cobham's mess up where the wing drogues still far away from FAA certified. A sub that totally blew it.
 
Ozair
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:25 am

This whole argument is nonsensical...

Yes the aircraft is late, very late, and I expect Boeing will never make a dollar of profit on the airframe and probably shouldn't but everyone needs to remember that the KC-46 has yet to reach Required Assets Available (RAA), the equivalent of IOC for the tanker fleet. As such the KC-46 is not an operational capability and remains in IOT&E. IOT&E is exactly where these issues and faults are meant to be found and fixed.
 
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747classic
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:15 pm

Next (19th) KC-46A delivery :
L/N 1164 C/N 34088 B767-2LKC 18-46041 USAF KC-46A (VH041) Lot 4, #03/18, tail 86041 delivery flight BFI - McConnell AFB with callsign MDUSA12 at September 20th 2019.
See : https://flightaware.com/live/flight/MDU ... /KBFI/KIAB
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:00 pm

The 767F is selling quite well as a freighter, it makes sense that it is also a good frame for a tanker. Cargo is brutally competitive, they fly the planes with the lowest trip cost. Last I checked there are at least 10 767F new builds flying for every 330F. Enough said about the capabilities.

Yes, Boeing has screwed up the execution of the KC-46 to an unbelievable extent. Did they argue for several years over the cameras before deciding they had to fix it?!?! Did their management teams not notice Cobham was doing the FAA certification on the pods, a contract requirement?!?! One would think it would be noticed. Did they really need to do the follow on commercial to military conversions 3, 4, 5 times when once should have been right. Did they really drop their standards for FOD compared to commercial or the P-8's, how could this crop up not once but 3 times.

Boeing mismanagement probably cost more than a Billion compared to a properly run program. I hope heads have rolled.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:27 pm

JayinKitsap wrote:
Boeing mismanagement probably cost more than a Billion compared to a properly run program.


And yet the losses will be dwarfed by the 737 fiasco.

This whole thing with the 767 tanker is a a fiasco starting from the begining. They should never have tried to squeeze every dollar by trying to bid the package out and made it political. They should have given it a longer time line to developed hardware.

That was why the P-8 program was successful. The selected the right airframe to perform the job but still have room for growth. Then implement incremental upgrade along the way.

Looking back, as a tax payer, I wished they would have went with the original 200 767F to start as it seems to be the right size frame. Then put in the necessary time line to developed and a upgrade the boom and all the other stuff along the way.

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
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SQ22
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:55 am

May I remind you that this is the KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread? I also agree that it makes sense, to some extended, to discuss the issues the programm is facing in this thread. For a comparision of the different tankers available on the market, as well as how good or bad the respective programmes have been executed (so far), please start a separate thread.
 
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ChrisNH38
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:07 pm

Has Pease (New Hampshire) seen any additional frames aside from the two they got in August?
https://my.flightradar24.com/ChrisNH
 
JayinKitsap
Posts: 2382
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:40 pm

DOD has awarded a follow on option for 15 more KC-46's.

https://defence-blog.com/news/u-s-air-f ... nkers.html

I looked for a better source but didn't find one, but did find this Strategy Page article, which is linked below. I see a lot of problems and errors in it but ti provides a summary of the 16 year circus around USAF tankers. It missed the Darleen Druyun fiasco, where she was the Contracting Officer on the original 2003 tanker lease just before retiring. A few months later she accepted a 250K/year job with Boeing. She went to prison for it as well as Boeing's Sears and Conduit resigned over this scandal too.

https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htair ... 90928.aspx
 
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kc135topboom
Posts: 11196
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:42 pm

The USAF had to use that money before the end of FY-2019, which ends today.
 
JayinKitsap
Posts: 2382
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:43 am

kc135topboom wrote:
The USAF had to use that money before the end of FY-2019, which ends today.


Possibly the only Sunday where DOD procurement works are the last few of September. Can't have any money left in the piggy bank as September ends.

I'm quite used to a flurry of construction contracts issued by NAVFAC or NAVSEA in the last 2 months of the year. Another flurry will start once FY20 budgets are finalized (not CR's as they continue operations, not start new things).
 
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747classic
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:25 am

Some updates :

Three KC-46A deliveries at October 11th 2019 :

17-46038 KC-46A US Air Force delivery flight Oct11 #KBFI to #KIAB McConnell AFB as MDUSA13.

18-46040 KC-46A US Air Force delivery flight Oct11 #KBFI to #KIAB McConnell AFB as MDUSA14.

18-46043 KC-46A US Air Force delivery flight Oct11 #KBFI to McConnell AFB(?) flying as KAWW15. Destination not confirmed but was headed in that general direction.

TINKER AIR FORCE BASE, Okla.
Work on the first leg of the new KC-46A Pegasus’ maintenance depot, the single-largest construction project to hit Tinker Air Force Base since the 1940s, is progressing ahead of the official ribbon-cutting scheduled for Oct. 18.
See : https://www.afmc.af.mil/News/Article-Di ... r-pegasus/

Image

Original uploaded by USAF, Kelly White, see : https://www.afmc.af.mil/News/Photos/igphoto/2002191760/
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
Ozair
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:18 pm

The KC-46 has now formally entered IOT&E while Boeing continues to fix some of the category one deficiencies.

Boeing KC-46A starts IOT&E despite US Air Force concerns

The Boeing KC-46A Pegasus in-flight refueling tanker formally transitioned into Initial Operational Test and Evaluation (IOT&E) on 22 October.

The US Air Force programme executive officer for the tanker formally certified the long-awaited process, the service says in a media release.

IOT&E is intended to test the KC-46A’s effectiveness, suitability and capabilities for its three primary missions: air-to-air refueling, cargo and passenger operations, and medical evacuation, says the USAF.

While the USAF starts operational tests of the KC-46A, Boeing will continue to work in parallel on fixes to category-one deficiencies in the aircraft’s design. The service decided to move forward with IOT&E despite the tanker’s lack of full functionality as it thinks in the long run it would be the fastest way to achieve full operational capability, which the USAF hopes will come by 2022 or 2023.
...

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... nc-461771/
 
Ozair
Posts: 5547
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:49 pm

Boeing looking to get the aircraft up to standard as soon as possible.

Boeing’s plan to get the KC-46A tanker back on schedule

Amid criticism from the US Air Force that it is moving too slowly towards fixing the KC-46A Pegasus in-flight refuelling tanker Boeing is touting incremental improvements that is says should help get its troubled programme back on track.

The Boeing KC-46A aircraft is beset by three category one deficiencies: problems which could cause injury, death, aircraft damage or restricted combat operations. The issues include deficiencies with the aircraft’ remote vision system (RVS), its refuelling boom and cargo floor restraint locks.

Boeing believes it is within striking distance of fixing one of those problems: cargo floor restraint locks which have jostled partially unlocked during flight, an issue which could lead to pallets coming loose.

...

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ed-461841/

Re the cargo locks I’m stunned that the solution to this is not to fix the current locks but add a second lock…
The company says it plans to retrofit the restraints with a secondary lock to hold the first lock in place.


The video system is still only just moving forward with the delay apparently related to both parties not agreeing on the requirements.
The RVS has two problems: a 3-D video display system that distorts images and leads to depth perception problems for operators trying to guide booms into receiving aircraft; and a problem automatically adjusting to changing lighting conditions.
“It's primarily when you're looking directly into the Sun or directly away from the Sun – when the Sun's at a low angle, casting a shadow,” says Burgess of the RVS’ difficulty adjusting to changing lighting.


Continued issues with refuelling the A-10 that require a boom fix.
Boeing is also in the preliminary design phase of changing the boom actuator system on the KC-46A, which is doesn’t connect properly to the Fairchild Republic A-10 Thunderbolt II. The A-10 doesn’t have enough engine power to push into the boom and compress the actuator, especially at high altitudes or when it is weighed down with weapons, says Burgess.


And Boeing is still waiting for the hose and drogue pods to be certified.
Boeing has also had trouble getting the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) to certificate aerial refuelling pods made by Cobham. Aerial refueling pods had not been certificated by the FAA before and Boeing says it underestimated the time needed to gather all of the required data. The company believes the pods should receive certification by June 2020.


It feels like there is still a way to go before the KC-46 is delivered as promised.
 
Max Q
Posts: 8635
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:54 am

Ozair wrote:
Boeing looking to get the aircraft up to standard as soon as possible.

Boeing’s plan to get the KC-46A tanker back on schedule

Amid criticism from the US Air Force that it is moving too slowly towards fixing the KC-46A Pegasus in-flight refuelling tanker Boeing is touting incremental improvements that is says should help get its troubled programme back on track.

The Boeing KC-46A aircraft is beset by three category one deficiencies: problems which could cause injury, death, aircraft damage or restricted combat operations. The issues include deficiencies with the aircraft’ remote vision system (RVS), its refuelling boom and cargo floor restraint locks.

Boeing believes it is within striking distance of fixing one of those problems: cargo floor restraint locks which have jostled partially unlocked during flight, an issue which could lead to pallets coming loose.

...

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ed-461841/

Re the cargo locks I’m stunned that the solution to this is not to fix the current locks but add a second lock…
The company says it plans to retrofit the restraints with a secondary lock to hold the first lock in place.


The video system is still only just moving forward with the delay apparently related to both parties not agreeing on the requirements.
The RVS has two problems: a 3-D video display system that distorts images and leads to depth perception problems for operators trying to guide booms into receiving aircraft; and a problem automatically adjusting to changing lighting conditions.
“It's primarily when you're looking directly into the Sun or directly away from the Sun – when the Sun's at a low angle, casting a shadow,” says Burgess of the RVS’ difficulty adjusting to changing lighting.


Continued issues with refuelling the A-10 that require a boom fix.
Boeing is also in the preliminary design phase of changing the boom actuator system on the KC-46A, which is doesn’t connect properly to the Fairchild Republic A-10 Thunderbolt II. The A-10 doesn’t have enough engine power to push into the boom and compress the actuator, especially at high altitudes or when it is weighed down with weapons, says Burgess.


And Boeing is still waiting for the hose and drogue pods to be certified.
Boeing has also had trouble getting the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) to certificate aerial refuelling pods made by Cobham. Aerial refueling pods had not been certificated by the FAA before and Boeing says it underestimated the time needed to gather all of the required data. The company believes the pods should receive certification by June 2020.


It feels like there is still a way to go before the KC-46 is delivered as promised.



I don’t understand, 767 pure freighters have
been flying for years with cargo locks


Never read anything about a problem in that application, how is the KC 46 so different?!
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
ThePointblank
Posts: 3569
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:34 am

Max Q wrote:
Ozair wrote:
Boeing looking to get the aircraft up to standard as soon as possible.

Boeing’s plan to get the KC-46A tanker back on schedule

Amid criticism from the US Air Force that it is moving too slowly towards fixing the KC-46A Pegasus in-flight refuelling tanker Boeing is touting incremental improvements that is says should help get its troubled programme back on track.

The Boeing KC-46A aircraft is beset by three category one deficiencies: problems which could cause injury, death, aircraft damage or restricted combat operations. The issues include deficiencies with the aircraft’ remote vision system (RVS), its refuelling boom and cargo floor restraint locks.

Boeing believes it is within striking distance of fixing one of those problems: cargo floor restraint locks which have jostled partially unlocked during flight, an issue which could lead to pallets coming loose.

...

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ed-461841/

Re the cargo locks I’m stunned that the solution to this is not to fix the current locks but add a second lock…
The company says it plans to retrofit the restraints with a secondary lock to hold the first lock in place.


The video system is still only just moving forward with the delay apparently related to both parties not agreeing on the requirements.
The RVS has two problems: a 3-D video display system that distorts images and leads to depth perception problems for operators trying to guide booms into receiving aircraft; and a problem automatically adjusting to changing lighting conditions.
“It's primarily when you're looking directly into the Sun or directly away from the Sun – when the Sun's at a low angle, casting a shadow,” says Burgess of the RVS’ difficulty adjusting to changing lighting.


Continued issues with refuelling the A-10 that require a boom fix.
Boeing is also in the preliminary design phase of changing the boom actuator system on the KC-46A, which is doesn’t connect properly to the Fairchild Republic A-10 Thunderbolt II. The A-10 doesn’t have enough engine power to push into the boom and compress the actuator, especially at high altitudes or when it is weighed down with weapons, says Burgess.


And Boeing is still waiting for the hose and drogue pods to be certified.
Boeing has also had trouble getting the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) to certificate aerial refuelling pods made by Cobham. Aerial refueling pods had not been certificated by the FAA before and Boeing says it underestimated the time needed to gather all of the required data. The company believes the pods should receive certification by June 2020.


It feels like there is still a way to go before the KC-46 is delivered as promised.



I don’t understand, 767 pure freighters have
been flying for years with cargo locks


Never read anything about a problem in that application, how is the KC 46 so different?!

Different pallet system; military aircraft use the 463L master pallet, while civilian aircraft use the Unit Load Device system. The systems are not compatible with each other, with changes in both handling and how the pallets are secured in the aircraft.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 1056
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:20 am

Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:20 am

ThePointblank wrote:
Max Q wrote:
Ozair wrote:
Boeing looking to get the aircraft up to standard as soon as possible.

Boeing’s plan to get the KC-46A tanker back on schedule


https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ed-461841/

Re the cargo locks I’m stunned that the solution to this is not to fix the current locks but add a second lock…


The video system is still only just moving forward with the delay apparently related to both parties not agreeing on the requirements.


Continued issues with refuelling the A-10 that require a boom fix.


And Boeing is still waiting for the hose and drogue pods to be certified.


It feels like there is still a way to go before the KC-46 is delivered as promised.



I don’t understand, 767 pure freighters have
been flying for years with cargo locks


Never read anything about a problem in that application, how is the KC 46 so different?!

Different pallet system; military aircraft use the 463L master pallet, while civilian aircraft use the Unit Load Device system. The systems are not compatible with each other, with changes in both handling and how the pallets are secured in the aircraft.


That makes a lot more sense then. I know I had been working off an understanding that it was a near identical system to commercial operators.

Though at the same time I would have thought pallet latches are hardly the most risky things on US military aircraft.
 
Max Q
Posts: 8635
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:40 am

ThePointblank wrote:
Max Q wrote:
Ozair wrote:
Boeing looking to get the aircraft up to standard as soon as possible.

Boeing’s plan to get the KC-46A tanker back on schedule


https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ed-461841/

Re the cargo locks I’m stunned that the solution to this is not to fix the current locks but add a second lock…


The video system is still only just moving forward with the delay apparently related to both parties not agreeing on the requirements.


Continued issues with refuelling the A-10 that require a boom fix.


And Boeing is still waiting for the hose and drogue pods to be certified.


It feels like there is still a way to go before the KC-46 is delivered as promised.



I don’t understand, 767 pure freighters have
been flying for years with cargo locks


Never read anything about a problem in that application, how is the KC 46 so different?!

Different pallet system; military aircraft use the 463L master pallet, while civilian aircraft use the Unit Load Device system. The systems are not compatible with each other, with changes in both handling and how the pallets are secured in the aircraft.



Ok, thanks for that

But surely these pallet locks have been around for decades in other military cargo aircraft?

Did Boeing change the design for the KC46 ?
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
User avatar
bikerthai
Posts: 3572
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:16 pm

Max Q wrote:
But surely these pallet locks have been around for decades in other military cargo aircraft?


Can't be sure if the locks used on the C-17 would fit on a 767 rolling floor system.

I wonder if this is another example of a "commercial" designer not in tuned with the requirements of a military aircraft.

Or perhaps the vibration spectrum on the 767 is such that these locks will pop when used with certain pallets. Vibration is funny that way.

To bad they couldn't find this out earlier during Boeing's testing period.

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
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par13del
Posts: 10448
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:23 pm

Max Q wrote:

Ok, thanks for that

But surely these pallet locks have been around for decades in other military cargo aircraft?

Did Boeing change the design for the KC46 ?

I am inclined to believe that the Air Force made the requirements, not Boeing. Based on their low bid, I would expect Boeing to want to re-use as much existing civilian tech as possible.
 
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747classic
Posts: 3467
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:23 am

The next KC-46A delivery BFI-IAB with callsign MDUSA16 at November 01th 2019, see : https://flightaware.com/live/flight/MDU ... /KBFI/KIAB

Aircraft data : L/N 1132 C/N 34127 B767-2LKC 17-46026 USAF KC-46A (VH026) LRIP 3, #03/15, N6018N, tail 76026
See : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
JayinKitsap
Posts: 2382
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:40 am

747classic wrote:
The next KC-46A delivery BFI-IAB with callsign MDUSA16 at November 01th 2019, see : https://flightaware.com/live/flight/MDU ... /KBFI/KIAB

Aircraft data : L/N 1132 C/N 34127 B767-2LKC 17-46026 USAF KC-46A (VH026) LRIP 3, #03/15, N6018N, tail 76026
See : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0


Thanks for the report

It is interesting that all but 2 deliveries so far are in a single series of line numbers, now only early and late frames to deliver.
Possibly 6 more deliveries this year at the 3 per month. Should be faster.
 
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747classic
Posts: 3467
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:13 am

Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:28 pm

747classic wrote:
Some updates :

Three KC-46A deliveries at October 11th 2019 :

17-46038 KC-46A US Air Force delivery flight Oct11 #KBFI to #KIAB McConnell AFB as MDUSA13.

18-46040 KC-46A US Air Force delivery flight Oct11 #KBFI to #KIAB McConnell AFB as MDUSA14.

18-46043 KC-46A US Air Force delivery flight Oct11 #KBFI to McConnell AFB(?) flying as KAWW15. Destination not confirmed but was headed in that general direction.


I noticed that I forgot to indicate the source, my mistake : https://tykesaeroblog.blogspot.com/sear ... l/DELIVERY
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
JayinKitsap
Posts: 2382
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:15 pm

747classic wrote:
747classic wrote:
Some updates :

Three KC-46A deliveries at October 11th 2019 :

17-46038 KC-46A US Air Force delivery flight Oct11 #KBFI to #KIAB McConnell AFB as MDUSA13.

18-46040 KC-46A US Air Force delivery flight Oct11 #KBFI to #KIAB McConnell AFB as MDUSA14.

18-46043 KC-46A US Air Force delivery flight Oct11 #KBFI to McConnell AFB(?) flying as KAWW15. Destination not confirmed but was headed in that general direction.


I noticed that I forgot to indicate the source, my mistake : https://tykesaeroblog.blogspot.com/sear ... l/DELIVERY



It is sad to see he is taking the blog private, I think you have been good at sourcing and you are not doing for fame/profit. I can understand being upset if my information was used by others without sourcing, even just a link to the source, for commercial purposes.
 
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SamYeager2016
Posts: 235
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Re: KC-46 Production and Delivery Thread 2019

Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:13 pm

Ozair wrote:
Re the cargo locks I’m stunned that the solution to this is not to fix the current locks but add a second lock…

Perhaps they should rename the company as Bodgit & Sons with their philosophy of "Never mind about fixing it, just bodge it"?
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