estorilm
Posts: 709
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:07 am

Re: A400M Update Thread 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:06 pm

Okay, since I'll never have anywhere else to post these - might as well throw them in here.

This beautiful machine was recently delivered and only had ~200hrs on it, you could eat off of pretty much any surface. The crew was great and was happy to answer all of our questions and show us around the various areas of the aircraft.

Currently operated by Air Transport Wing 62 of the Luftwaffe.

Image
Image
Image
Image

EDIT: Gr, what am I doing wrong here? My photos never work anymore. :(
 
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Revelation
Posts: 21368
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: A400M Update Thread 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:27 pm

estorilm wrote:
EDIT: Gr, what am I doing wrong here? My photos never work anymore. :(

I cannot figure it out either. Your coding of the post is fine, the links load fine in Chrome or Firefox, no idea what is up.

Maybe ask on Site Related forum for help?

Here are links for people to click through, the photos are excellent.

Photo 1

Photo 2

Photo 3

Photo 4

EDIT: Oddly enough, after loading via these links, all of a sudden the photos showed up in the original post as well.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
estorilm
Posts: 709
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:07 am

Re: A400M Update Thread 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:44 pm

Revelation wrote:
estorilm wrote:
EDIT: Gr, what am I doing wrong here? My photos never work anymore. :(

I cannot figure it out either. Your coding of the post is fine, the links load fine in Chrome or Firefox, no idea what is up.

Maybe ask on Site Related forum for help?

Here are links for people to click through, the photos are excellent.

Photo 1

Photo 2

Photo 3

Photo 4

EDIT: Oddly enough, after loading via these links, all of a sudden the photos showed up in the original post as well.

Thanks! Yeah that is weird. I'm kinda bummed I didn't take more pictures, but I was busy drooling haha. Almost any display in the aircraft can show any camera as well (incl. IR) - the load master had two giant touch screens, a nice pull out tray table, air conditioning, whatever cameras he could want.

I didn't realize the engines were still running the temporary fix gear boxes either - he told me the TBO on them and it was VERY low still. :(
 
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Grizzly410
Posts: 220
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Re: A400M Update Thread 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:58 pm

estorilm wrote:
Which aircraft is refueling currently? I was lucky enough to tour a Luftwaffe A400M a couple weeks ago and WOW, what an incredible machine! It only had ~200hrs on it, and sitting in that cockpit with everything fired up was awesome. I got to take a look at the refueling panel, which is pretty intuitive as would be expected by an airbus system. Master switch for tanking, dispensing, and normal.
FWIW though, they had told me that they were still incapable of refueling for some reason? Granted I don't think this was a tactically deployed aircraft, as these folks typically fly freight around for various needs (this was at IAD.)

Can't tell you a precise list but current PODs are certified for "fighters" in day operation, same thing for the center line Hose Drum Unit. I think the capability is standard since end of last year, ~MSN83.
Buddy refuelling and night operations should be certified in a close future, Cargo Hold Tanks too.

Btw, I heard Cargo Hold Tanks can be filled with a different fuel type than the one used by A400M (and delivered only throught the HDU). I'm surprised because I thought all aircraft were using basically the same fuel. How is it managed on other tankers, with help of aditional tanks too ? I can't imagine the std A/C fuel system can manage 2 differents fuel within the wing tank...

estorilm wrote:
I'll have to post some pictures later, the HUD was pretty cool, and the load master's station is NICE. Big beautiful (fully configurable) screens everywhere, hell they even have foot heaters up in the cockpit.

What about the coffee machine in the small galley? :coffee: :biggrin:
In order to be old and wise, one must first be young and dumb.
 
estorilm
Posts: 709
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:07 am

Re: A400M Update Thread 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:06 pm

Grizzly410 wrote:
estorilm wrote:
Which aircraft is refueling currently? I was lucky enough to tour a Luftwaffe A400M a couple weeks ago and WOW, what an incredible machine! It only had ~200hrs on it, and sitting in that cockpit with everything fired up was awesome. I got to take a look at the refueling panel, which is pretty intuitive as would be expected by an airbus system. Master switch for tanking, dispensing, and normal.
FWIW though, they had told me that they were still incapable of refueling for some reason? Granted I don't think this was a tactically deployed aircraft, as these folks typically fly freight around for various needs (this was at IAD.)

Can't tell you a precise list but current PODs are certified for "fighters" in day operation, same thing for the center line Hose Drum Unit. I think the capability is standard since end of last year, ~MSN83.
Buddy refuelling and night operations should be certified in a close future, Cargo Hold Tanks too.

Btw, I heard Cargo Hold Tanks can be filled with a different fuel type than the one used by A400M (and delivered only throught the HDU). I'm surprised because I thought all aircraft were using basically the same fuel. How is it managed on other tankers, with help of aditional tanks too ? I can't imagine the std A/C fuel system can manage 2 differents fuel within the wing tank...

estorilm wrote:
I'll have to post some pictures later, the HUD was pretty cool, and the load master's station is NICE. Big beautiful (fully configurable) screens everywhere, hell they even have foot heaters up in the cockpit.

What about the coffee machine in the small galley? :coffee: :biggrin:

I forgot to ask about the coffee area, but they were definitely loaded up with a ton of sodas for some reason. Maybe they're going to hit up more air shows lol. The electric seats were pretty cool (they slide over towards the windows for access, plus fwd/aft of course, and every other way you can think of) - the C-17 guys were there and checked her out also. They thought the seats were cool but "just one more thing to break in 10 years" lol.

I spoke briefly about the fuel system capabilities and it seemed like every possible scenario had been planned for - they also mentioned that they'd be able to use the cargo hold tanks very soon and they were were trained on it etc, everything is basically ready to go - probably a paperwork / certification thing more than anything else. The range he mentioned was pretty awesome with the additional fuel tanks.

I asked about the hyd systems layout vs. A380 etc and he said it was basically identical, one press of a button and he had all of the actuators and supplies (both electric and hydraulic supplies) pulled up on a screen. It's the same as the A380 in that you can lose 100% of ALL HYDRAULICS and not only will it still fly, but it'll still have full autopilot (will also retain autopilot during an engine failure as well, even just after takeoff / climb-out).

Sadly - I asked if I could move the side-stick and he said in slightly broken English / German accent "eh, you better not do that" :lol: I guess even on the GPU, with basic systems on, the flight control surfaces would still move. Probably a stupid question, but I was impressed by how small/simple the side-stick was... wanted to "feel the power" lol.
 
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Grizzly410
Posts: 220
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Re: A400M Update Thread 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:48 pm

estorilm wrote:
I spoke briefly about the fuel system capabilities and it seemed like every possible scenario had been planned for - they also mentioned that they'd be able to use the cargo hold tanks very soon and they were were trained on it etc, everything is basically ready to go - probably a paperwork / certification thing more than anything else. The range he mentioned was pretty awesome with the additional fuel tanks.

A bit more complicated. All aircraft are ready to accommodate wing PODS but only certain (few) have the necessary piping for the cargo tanks and ramp ready for the HDU (let's say "tanker" version).
But yeah, once capability certified by Airbus there is nearly no hardware work on aircraft to upgrade and refuel by pods, or HDU if you have a "tanker".

I’m afraid he wanted to impress you with the range with cargo tanks as it is a very useless data ! The tanks are meant to be used for the tanker application, of course you can use them to extend the ferry range too… :spin: Let me explain :
Once fitted with the two cargo tanks you just can’t load anything as between the tank, their pallet + the additional piping there is nearly no room left except on the ceiling :mrgreen: . Worse when the tank are associated with the HDU (and that’s the standard application) in this conf you just can’t operate the ramp !!!

estorilm wrote:
I asked about the hyd systems layout vs. A380 etc and he said it was basically identical, one press of a button and he had all of the actuators and supplies (both electric and hydraulic supplies) pulled up on a screen. It's the same as the A380 in that you can lose 100% of ALL HYDRAULICS and not only will it still fly, but it'll still have full autopilot (will also retain autopilot during an engine failure as well, even just after takeoff / climb-out).

A380 and A400M were developed not in parallel but so close in time that an awful lot of systems are basically identical, just like a lot of standard parts and practice.
In order to be old and wise, one must first be young and dumb.
 
mxaxai
Posts: 1152
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Re: A400M Update Thread 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:58 pm

Grizzly410 wrote:
Once fitted with the two cargo tanks you just can’t load anything as between the tank, their pallet + the additional piping there is nearly no room left except on the ceiling :mrgreen:

There should be lots of empty room between the two tanks It is probably unusable for normal cargo operations, though, since you'd need to remove the rear tank to load or unload anything.

estorilm wrote:
This beautiful machine was recently delivered and only had ~200hrs on it, you could eat off of pretty much any surface.

I suppose you didn't notice the integrated urinal next to the ramp?
 
estorilm
Posts: 709
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Re: A400M Update Thread 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:18 pm

mxaxai wrote:
Grizzly410 wrote:
Once fitted with the two cargo tanks you just can’t load anything as between the tank, their pallet + the additional piping there is nearly no room left except on the ceiling :mrgreen:

There should be lots of empty room between the two tanks It is probably unusable for normal cargo operations, though, since you'd need to remove the rear tank to load or unload anything.

estorilm wrote:
This beautiful machine was recently delivered and only had ~200hrs on it, you could eat off of pretty much any surface.

I suppose you didn't notice the integrated urinal next to the ramp?

LOL on the right side there? Nah - there's so much crap covering every inch of that plane, I honestly didn't notice. :lol:
 
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Revelation
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Re: A400M Update Thread 2019

Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:33 pm

estorilm wrote:
Revelation wrote:
WIederling wrote:

To uphold a.net's tradition of pedantry, I will point out that #191 reports "dry contact" so no actual refueling is underway, although clearly it should be soon.

Both tanker and receiver are reported to be very frustrated by the situation. :blush:

Yeah that's what the pilots were explaining to me - I should have got some more details but honestly I think they're the last to know sometimes lol.

They should know wet contact is more fun than dry contact, right? :biggrin:
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
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JerseyFlyer
Posts: 1380
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 7:24 pm

Re: A400M Update Thread 2019

Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:56 am

Grizzly410 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Did anyone release info on how the original design failure with regard to helicopter refueling happened?


I'm not aware but would make a very interesting read.
I could understand that "stability issues for the rotorcraft while it was operating near the Atlas" could have been missed during development, that's something not so easy to model. But the "90ft length of its refuelling hose also bringing it too close to the airlifter's tail" seems like a very predictable issue to me... :sigh:
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... oo-450430/


Maybe "too close to the tail" really means "within the unexpected wake turbulence", in which case a longer hose would be needed to take a helicopter further away from the wake.
 
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keesje
Posts: 13179
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: A400M Update Thread 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:08 am

Heli tanking video:
https://youtu.be/FEb_nvR7F38

Interesting RTO, right engine feathering at full power.
https://youtu.be/SFn9O204B10
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway

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