Max Q
Topic Author
Posts: 7612
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Replacement for the Phoenix missile

Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:23 pm

From the time the mighty F14 entered service it was famous for its capability to carry the large and very long ranged Phoenix


This was a missile that could shoot a supersonic target 100 miles away and was seen as an effective defense for the carrier the Tomcats were protecting


Is there an existing missile that can be carried by the F18 with equivalent performance?
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society
 
tommy1808
Posts: 10777
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Replacement for the Phoenix missile

Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:59 pm

Meteor. Probably not the same range vs. a straight line target, but probably the longest range of any air2air missile against anything that manoevers. And just a fraction of the weight.

So, pretty much available of the shelf.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
User avatar
smithbs
Posts: 291
Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 6:09 pm

Re: Replacement for the Phoenix missile

Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:10 pm

The Navy has already decided: the AIM-120! The AIM-120D seems to be as close as it's going to get in terms of range. Note that missile ranges are hard to quantify from public sources. For example, I could use a AIM-120 against a supersonic target at 100 miles - if that target is headed right at me, doesn't change course, and is going REALLY fast such that it comes into the AIM-120 basket due to its own speed. And so when quoting missile ranges, the question becomes what is the closure rate, relative altitudes, altitude gain of the missile, energy of missile at interception, etc etc. Usually I suspect that a publicly stated blanket range is somewhere near maximum range conditions against a fast-closing target, minus some margin for secrecy, plus some margin for marketing.

Beyond Meteor, there has been talk of a new program: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-Rang ... ent_Weapon
 
DigitalSea
Posts: 121
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:28 pm

Re: Replacement for the Phoenix missile

Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:14 pm

Who needs missiles when you can employ DEW tech :twisted: .
 
Ozair
Posts: 4145
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: Replacement for the Phoenix missile

Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:13 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Meteor. Probably not the same range vs. a straight line target, but probably the longest range of any air2air missile against anything that manoevers. And just a fraction of the weight.

So, pretty much available of the shelf.

Best regards
Thomas

I don’t expect the US to acquire the Meteor for a couple of reasons including seeker history (it has the MICA seeker), the cost/capability trade-off of the missile against the AIM-120D and the emergence, as smithbs has said, of new missiles. The US is keen for 5th gen missiles to equip their 5th gen platforms and the Meteor, while having a long range and unique propulsion for an A2A missile, is not that.

It will be integrated onto the F-35 for the UK as well as potentially other F-35 operators but no one has yet to decide to operate from the F/A-18, or the F-16 for that matter. Spain is the only operator of the Meteor that has an F/A-18 fleet but I am not aware of any plans to integrate Meteor onto it.

It is possible Meteor will see sales and integration onto other US aircraft, perhaps Saudi or Qatari F-15s and maybe Egyptian F-16s if they order it for their Rafale. It may move to Gripen operators such as Thailand and South Africa but I doubt it.

UK and Japan are working on a seeker upgrade for potential future use and I see that derivative weapon as a better overall prospect than the current version.

smithbs wrote:
Note that missile ranges are hard to quantify from public sources. For example, I could use a AIM-120 against a supersonic target at 100 miles - if that target is headed right at me, doesn't change course, and is going REALLY fast such that it comes into the AIM-120 basket due to its own speed. And so when quoting missile ranges, the question becomes what is the closure rate, relative altitudes, altitude gain of the missile, energy of missile at interception, etc etc. Usually I suspect that a publicly stated blanket range is somewhere near maximum range conditions against a fast-closing target, minus some margin for secrecy, plus some margin for marketing.


Agree range is a very suspect metric when it comes to air to air missiles given the many variables. The below graphic shows a good example of a typical air to air missile range based on front and rear aspect engagements combined with altitude.

Image

Obviously Meteor changes that because it has thrust for most of the duration of flight so the above would not be representative.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 10777
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Replacement for the Phoenix missile

Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:09 am

Ozair wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Meteor. Probably not the same range vs. a straight line target, but probably the longest range of any air2air missile against anything that manoevers. And just a fraction of the weight.

So, pretty much available of the shelf.

Best regards
Thomas

I don’t expect the US to acquire the Meteor for a couple of reasons including seeker history (it has the MICA seeker]


There is an alternate top notch active Ka/passive x-band seeker design that Germany had pushed for hard, but the other Meteor Nations considered a step to far and didn´t fit the development timeline. They probably didn´t want Seeker, Propulsion and Warhead being German either..... Since the German Air force considered the A4D seeker unsuitable 20 years ago, i would suspect that either German Meteor have that seeker, or that the Step Change from Aster to Meteor seeker is quite a bit bigger than from Mica to Aster to get it accepted. Which, as far as we know, no test against countermeasures could get to veer of yet either. Interestingly the Aster NT gets a Ka Band seeker...... backported perhaps?
Silent introduction wouldn´t be unheard of, the Army had Spike Missiles years before they where officially bought either.

Interestingly the A3M version of the Meteor, only difference being the seeker head, was supposed to have >250 km Range........
Its small, it is fast, it has high range, it is networked..... what isn´t Gen. 5 about the Meteor?

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: canyonblue17, OhWiss, TheF15Ace and 13 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos