All photos are taken from paralay forum: http://paralay.iboards.ru/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2683&start=180&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

estimated performance characteristics:
wingspan - 19 meters (62.34 feet)
length - 14 meters (45,93 feet)
takeoff weight - 25-27 metric tons (weapon weight 2.5-3 metric tons)
speed - 1000 km / h (621 MPH)
practical range of not less than 5000 km

Development of assault UAV for experimental design work with the code "Hunter-B" is commissioned by the Ministry of Defense of Russia since 2012.
According to available data, the UAV is unified with the T-50 aircraft, and is also being developed within the framework of the concept of network-centric interaction with the fifth generation aircraft.

That jet engine nozzle sticking out like that must not be very stealthy.

Aesma wrote:

That jet engine nozzle sticking out like that must not be very stealthy.

This engine is for initial testing only. The production model will have a different engine.

Scorpius wrote:

Aesma wrote:

That jet engine nozzle sticking out like that must not be very stealthy.

This engine is for initial testing only. The production model will have a different engine.

That's what they said about the SU-57, 2x giant ugly engine nozzles bolted to a "stealthy" plane. "It's just a prototype, they'll fix that later" - Then poof, she was done.

It's fun to make it look the part, but having form follow function is a different matter, all together. *cue the Airplane! quote*

The quickest way to gain stealth capabilities is to develop UAV’s.
Smart move.

estorilm wrote:

Scorpius wrote:

Aesma wrote:

That jet engine nozzle sticking out like that must not be very stealthy.

This engine is for initial testing only. The production model will have a different engine.

That's what they said about the SU-57, 2x giant ugly engine nozzles bolted to a "stealthy" plane. "It's just a prototype, they'll fix that later" - Then poof, she was done.

It's fun to make it look the part, but having form follow function is a different matter, all together. *cue the Airplane! quote*

Now there is a serial engine from the su-35S. The engine for the T-50 is currently being tested. When it is ready-it will be installed on the T-50 and C-70. I do not yet have information about whether there will be a flat nozzle on the S-70 - but it is not necessarily necessary there: it all depends on the concept of using this drone.

Scorpius wrote:

Aesma wrote:

That jet engine nozzle sticking out like that must not be very stealthy.

This engine is for initial testing only. The production model will have a different engine.

The engine is of course a stealthy design capitalist pigs won’t notice but also we ran out of money but hey this will make Trump fear us!

FIFY

SuperiorPilotMe wrote:

Scorpius wrote:

Aesma wrote:

That jet engine nozzle sticking out like that must not be very stealthy.

This engine is for initial testing only. The production model will have a different engine.

The engine is of course a stealthy design capitalist pigs won’t notice but also we ran out of money but hey this will make Trump fear us!

FIFY

You write nonsense. The engine of the second stage - "product 30" is currently being tested.
The first batch of aircraft for the army has already been ordered, and the first two aircraft should be delivered in 2019. In 2020, announced the purchase of another 13 units of su-57, some of which will receive the engines of the second stage. In the future, purchases will be carried out as necessary to equip the Russian air force with this type of aircraft.
Yes, Russia has less money than the United States - so Russia will not produce 200 units of non-combatant F-35, and will work out all the technologies on a small number of experimental aircraft. In addition, Russia's maximum demand for su-57 aircraft does not exceed 100-150 units. Plus another 200-300 assault drones type C-70.
Well, let me remind you that Russia has the second most powerful army in the world, while having a military budget 10 times less than the United States. This indicates that Russia is several times more effective in spending on defense.

We'll see if the Su-57 will be as good as it could have been without the help and money of the Indians.

Good luck with this drone, we'll also see how many will be purchased by Russia and perhaps by other countries.

Scorpius wrote:

SuperiorPilotMe wrote:

Scorpius wrote:

This engine is for initial testing only. The production model will have a different engine.

The engine is of course a stealthy design capitalist pigs won’t notice but also we ran out of money but hey this will make Trump fear us!

FIFY

You write nonsense. The engine of the second stage - "product 30" is currently being tested.
The first batch of aircraft for the army has already been ordered, and the first two aircraft should be delivered in 2019. In 2020, announced the purchase of another 13 units of su-57, some of which will receive the engines of the second stage. In the future, purchases will be carried out as necessary to equip the Russian air force with this type of aircraft.
Yes, Russia has less money than the United States - so Russia will not produce 200 units of non-combatant F-35, and will work out all the technologies on a small number of experimental aircraft. In addition, Russia's maximum demand for su-57 aircraft does not exceed 100-150 units. Plus another 200-300 assault drones type C-70.
Well, let me remind you that Russia has the second most powerful army in the world, while having a military budget 10 times less than the United States. This indicates that Russia is several times more effective in spending on defense.

Uh, what?

Congratulations!

In 2020 it's "possible" that you'll officially have a prototype to match the F-119.

Woohoo, you're only thirty years behind! Cheers. *rollseyes*

Several times more effective on spending for defense? You have ZERO 5th gen fighters operational. That's 100% wasted money as far as I'm concerned. If you needed one today, you have nothing. Zero. The US and NATO allies have multiple 5th gen options... carriers, amphib, conventional, the raptor, etc.

Just stop.

estorilm wrote:

Several times more effective on spending for defense? You have ZERO 5th gen fighters operational.

Given how 2 upgraded MiG-21s just bested 6 F-16s (and apparently even some sort of Block 52 standard), the value of the "generation" concept is questionable.

estorilm wrote:

Scorpius wrote:

SuperiorPilotMe wrote:

FIFY

You write nonsense. The engine of the second stage - "product 30" is currently being tested.
The first batch of aircraft for the army has already been ordered, and the first two aircraft should be delivered in 2019. In 2020, announced the purchase of another 13 units of su-57, some of which will receive the engines of the second stage. In the future, purchases will be carried out as necessary to equip the Russian air force with this type of aircraft.
Yes, Russia has less money than the United States - so Russia will not produce 200 units of non-combatant F-35, and will work out all the technologies on a small number of experimental aircraft. In addition, Russia's maximum demand for su-57 aircraft does not exceed 100-150 units. Plus another 200-300 assault drones type C-70.
Well, let me remind you that Russia has the second most powerful army in the world, while having a military budget 10 times less than the United States. This indicates that Russia is several times more effective in spending on defense.

Uh, what?

Congratulations!

In 2020 it's "possible" that you'll officially have a prototype to match the F-119.

Woohoo, you're only thirty years behind! Cheers. *rollseyes*

Several times more effective on spending for defense? You have ZERO 5th gen fighters operational. That's 100% wasted money as far as I'm concerned. If you needed one today, you have nothing. Zero. The US and NATO allies have multiple 5th gen options... carriers, amphib, conventional, the raptor, etc.

Just stop.

And again you made a mistake-the thrust of "Product 30" is 17-18 tons, which greatly exceeds the thrust of F-119.
Yes, and very funny to listen to your statements about the "superiority of the US" in light of the fact that the development of the F-35 was used by the Soviet development programme of the YAK-141.

VSMUT wrote:

estorilm wrote:

Several times more effective on spending for defense? You have ZERO 5th gen fighters operational.

Given how 2 upgraded MiG-21s just bested 6 F-16s (and apparently even some sort of Block 52 standard), the value of the "generation" concept is questionable.

I think your statement should read "2 superior pilots just bested 6 inferior pilots." The plane is inconsequential if you are not trained well enough to utilize it to its full advantage. Same way I wouldn't be a better driver if you gave me an F1 car.

With regards to the C-70 - Engine exhaust non-low-observable aside, what is up with all those vents/intakes(?) all over the dorsal side? That doesn't look like FTI to me. Is this another case of "it will be stealthy when/if it goes into production?" Anyone have any idea what purpose they serve?

Also, looking at the picture of the C-70 from the rear posted upthread, it looks like the tug is turning the plane to starboard. This should deflect the split rudder on the starboard side, but it appears the mid- and inboard elevons are deflecting for a starboard bank. Its probably just wind playing with unpowered hydraulics, and I'm looking far too much into this, but any insight is much appreciated.

Scorpius wrote:

Yes, and very funny to listen to your statements about the "superiority of the US" in light of the fact that the development of the F-35 was used by the Soviet development programme of the YAK-141.

Sorry for the double post, but this is factually incorrect. If you want to be taken seriously and not as a Russian propaganda whore, you should have some facts straight before you shoot your mouth off. The Yak-41M/Yak-141 is impressive and I tip my hat to the engineers who created it, but it never made it past prototype. The F-35 is in service. F-35 collaborated with Yakovlev with regards to the "propulsion system" according to the internet. Reading between the lines, I assume its the rotating exhaust duct that can thrust vector up to 90*. Development of the 141 was dead, and the F-35 is being brought into service. How is this an example of the Soviet development program using US technology?

meecrob wrote:

Scorpius wrote:

Yes, and very funny to listen to your statements about the "superiority of the US" in light of the fact that the development of the F-35 was used by the Soviet development programme of the YAK-141.

Sorry for the double post, but this is factually incorrect. If you want to be taken seriously and not as a Russian propaganda whore, you should have some facts straight before you shoot your mouth off. The Yak-41M/Yak-141 is impressive and I tip my hat to the engineers who created it, but it never made it past prototype. The F-35 is in service. F-35 collaborated with Yakovlev with regards to the "propulsion system" according to the internet. Reading between the lines, I assume its the rotating exhaust duct that can thrust vector up to 90*. Development of the 141 was dead, and the F-35 is being brought into service. How is this an example of the Soviet development program using US technology?

I'm talking about the fact that the F-35 was created using the developments of the Soviet program. This fact refutes the claim that allegedly Russia in development lags behind the USA for 30 years. Otherwise, the US would not use Russia's developments that are "30 years behind", would it? There is no propaganda in this - I will just give an example that shows the flawed logic of statements that Russia is lagging behind.

Similarly, statements about the" wrong engine nozzle " in the S-70 are not technically competent. As I said, the S-70 is unified with the T-50, they will both form a single combat unit, operating within the framework of the concept of network-centric war.
A perfectly logical solution to reduce the cost of the program is to use the same engines and a maximum of the same components in these aircraft. And just as it is logical that for the initial stage of testing on the S-70 was installed the same engine that is on the su-35S and T-50 now (different versions, but in fact the engine is one). The new engine is currently being tested and will be installed in production models after it is fully developed.
So statements like "Oh, what a horrible looking engine with the wrong nozzle" are exactly propaganda. But note - this not I give such a propaganda.

Dutchy wrote:

We'll see if the Su-57 will be as good as it could have been without the help and money of the Indians.

Good luck with this drone, we'll also see how many will be purchased by Russia and perhaps by other countries.

The only thing we can say now is that the contribution of India in the programme of the FGFA was limited to the amount of <$300 million, and the group HAL have not coped with the development of the chassis for the FGFA.
But FGFA was a parallel development, it is essentially a modification of the T-50. Without India, the T-50 program will not close.
Perhaps the development of the C-70 will convince the Indian government that the FGFA is worth more effort than it was spent on.

Scorpius wrote:

meecrob wrote:

Scorpius wrote:

Yes, and very funny to listen to your statements about the "superiority of the US" in light of the fact that the development of the F-35 was used by the Soviet development programme of the YAK-141.

Sorry for the double post, but this is factually incorrect. If you want to be taken seriously and not as a Russian propaganda whore, you should have some facts straight before you shoot your mouth off. The Yak-41M/Yak-141 is impressive and I tip my hat to the engineers who created it, but it never made it past prototype. The F-35 is in service. F-35 collaborated with Yakovlev with regards to the "propulsion system" according to the internet. Reading between the lines, I assume its the rotating exhaust duct that can thrust vector up to 90*. Development of the 141 was dead, and the F-35 is being brought into service. How is this an example of the Soviet development program using US technology?

I'm talking about the fact that the F-35 was created using the developments of the Soviet program. This fact refutes the claim that allegedly Russia in development lags behind the USA for 30 years. Otherwise, the US would not use Russia's developments that are "30 years behind", would it? There is no propaganda in this - I will just give an example that shows the flawed logic of statements that Russia is lagging behind.

Similarly, statements about the" wrong engine nozzle " in the S-70 are not technically competent. As I said, the S-70 is unified with the T-50, they will both form a single combat unit, operating within the framework of the concept of network-centric war.
A perfectly logical solution to reduce the cost of the program is to use the same engines and a maximum of the same components in these aircraft. And just as it is logical that for the initial stage of testing on the S-70 was installed the same engine that is on the su-35S and T-50 now (different versions, but in fact the engine is one). The new engine is currently being tested and will be installed in production models after it is fully developed.
So statements like "Oh, what a horrible looking engine with the wrong nozzle" are exactly propaganda. But note - this not I give such a propaganda.

I don't know if this is a language barrier, or you are purposefully ignoring my points, but please understand that I'm not attacking Russian military hardware, I am attacking the way you are trying to say Russian hardware is the absolute best full stop no questions asked. Also, I'm the guy who specifically said "aside from the engine exhaust..." so I don't get why you explain to me about the engine exhaust. Please tell me about the dorsal vents or tell me how the F-35 advanced the Yak-141 development.

VSMUT wrote:

estorilm wrote:

Several times more effective on spending for defense? You have ZERO 5th gen fighters operational.

Given how 2 upgraded MiG-21s just bested 6 F-16s (and apparently even some sort of Block 52 standard), the value of the "generation" concept is questionable.

Source? So far we've seen the wreckage of one MiG-21, and a casing of an expended AIM-120C.

VSMUT wrote:

Given how 2 upgraded MiG-21s just bested 6 F-16s (and apparently even some sort of Block 52 standard), the value of the "generation" concept is questionable.

That's like saying one super car is better than another just because an idiot bought one and promptly drove it into a tree. If you're talking India vs. Pakistan neither are exactly world-beater air forces with training/tactics, AND no one has any idea what even happened yet.

Besides, if you want to go down that route - you can't pull the "age card" when Mig-21's have historically become target drones in any a2a engagement over the past few decades, by multiple countries lol.

Scorpius wrote:

And again you made a mistake-the thrust of "Product 30" is 17-18 tons, which greatly exceeds the thrust of F-119.
Yes, and very funny to listen to your statements about the "superiority of the US" in light of the fact that the development of the F-35 was used by the Soviet development programme of the YAK-141.

The Izdeliye-30 / AL-41 are in the same thrust class as the F-119 engine. Pratt's first research / dev program was launched in 1983.
I don't care about the specs today, since (as far as US technology is concerned) it's no longer even a cutting-edge design, HOWEVER a number of critical manufacturing technologies and techniques from the 1980s and 1990s US engine designs were (are) still being perfected by Russia and Saturn's programs today.

This is a fact, there's no way around it. You can throw around stats (again, based on a non-production engine that still hasn't passed critical reliability and performance tests) but at the end of the day, that's the engine which will (for the first time in Russia) demonstrate high performance 5th-gen-level fighter engine stats. If in fact it reaches production in 2020 (unlikely if you follow the programs unbelievable history of issues) then it'll still be (like I said before) around 30 years late. I don't care if the thrust specs differ slightly - name a SINGLE production deployed Russian engine before it which matches the technologies and efficiency/size/weight/thrust. There isn't one - this would be your first "modern" engine.

It should also be noted that the F-119 met all performance targets for the size and dimensions of the F-22. The SU-57 is obviously going to need more thrust to achieve super-cruise, if that's even possible (LM had to make several major last-minute changes to the Raptor design to ensure supercruise, from an aerodynamic point of view - regardless of thrust).

Don't even think about taking any credit for the F-35 lol!! - you had an aircraft which tested a couple random elements of a STOVL system (LM really wanted to save some time due to fly-off pressure and deadlines and grab the nozzle hinge design). The JSF quickly became one of the largest and most complicated defense projects in world history. You should probably try to get the conventional "easy" "F-22-beater" in the air first, from a few decades ago. The Yak-41 was incapable of being converted to stealth, especially with the weight/complexity of two additional jet engines for lift. Actually just forget the STOVL F-35B - the A & C variants have nothing in common with the Yak, except they do feature infinite technologies which Russia has proven incapable of developing/deploying. On their own, they are independent 5th generation fighters that are fully operational and deployed with multiple countries as I type this.




Anyways back on topic - this is a SHOCKING sign of Russia getting their act together and really developing a modern UCAV. It's about time they developed their own ground-up designs!

....wait.

Does anyone else see any similarities here?



...ouch yeah, that's the intake of a Boeing X-45 UCAV from 2005 (minus all the ugly crap Russia likes to stick to the outside of their planes of course!)

The rear? Ouch again... Hey maybe it goes back to that whole engine and materials technology gap I was talking about before?



This is actually Northrop's X-47, but their exhausts are similarly stealthy w/ the X-45. I was personally a HUGE fan of the X-47 as it performed everything ahead of schedule and under budget (incl numerous carrier ops) - awesome machine. It was just too good to be canned after doing everything perfect - hopefully it's part of some project I'll never know about.

estorilm wrote:

...ouch yeah, that's the intake of a Boeing X-45 UCAV

omg, do you seriously equate an X-45 with a takeoff weight of 3.5 tons to an apparatus that has a takeoff weight of 25-27 tons?

And what about the shape of the air intake-do you think that in Soviet Russia the air has some other properties compared to the us? Maybe you also think that the Tu-160 is a copy of the B-1, and the Buran was a copy of the Shuttle? But in this case I don't know what to discuss with you.

Scorpius wrote:

You write nonsense. The engine of the second stage - "product 30" is currently being tested.
The first batch of aircraft for the army has already been ordered, and the first two aircraft should be delivered in 2019. In 2020, announced the purchase of another 13 units of su-57, some of which will receive the engines of the second stage. In the future, purchases will be carried out as necessary to equip the Russian air force with this type of aircraft.
Yes, Russia has less money than the United States - so Russia will not produce 200 units of non-combatant F-35, and will work out all the technologies on a small number of experimental aircraft. In addition, Russia's maximum demand for su-57 aircraft does not exceed 100-150 units. Plus another 200-300 assault drones type C-70.
Well, let me remind you that Russia has the second most powerful army in the world, while having a military budget 10 times less than the United States. This indicates that Russia is several times more effective in spending on defense.

All I need to say is “prove to me the Su-57 will ever enter mass-scale production.”

SuperiorPilotMe wrote:

All I need to say is “prove to me the Su-57 will ever enter mass-scale production.”

As far as I'm concerned, all of the PAK-FA airframes right now are just part of a proof of concept for something that will never be mass produced.

DigitalSea wrote:

SuperiorPilotMe wrote:

All I need to say is “prove to me the Su-57 will ever enter mass-scale production.”

As far as I'm concerned, all of the PAK-FA airframes right now are just part of a proof of concept for something that will never be mass produced.

As far as I know, you're wrong. The first serial contracts for the su-57 are already at the signing stage.
For example, in 2020 it is planned to sign a batch of 12 su-57 units: https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6003231

Scorpius wrote:

DigitalSea wrote:

SuperiorPilotMe wrote:

All I need to say is “prove to me the Su-57 will ever enter mass-scale production.”

As far as I'm concerned, all of the PAK-FA airframes right now are just part of a proof of concept for something that will never be mass produced.

As far as I know, you're wrong. The first serial contracts for the su-57 are already at the signing stage.
For example, in 2020 it is planned to sign a batch of 12 su-57 units: https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6003231

Well, that really isn't mass production and most importantly, I have not heard that the development of the Saturn Izdeliye 30 is fully complete yet. It may be close but to my knowledge there are no flying versions of it yet installed in a production ready fighter.

I hope it succeeds, the Su-57 should be an impressive plane when it is produced.

Tugg

Tugger wrote:

Scorpius wrote:

DigitalSea wrote:

As far as I'm concerned, all of the PAK-FA airframes right now are just part of a proof of concept for something that will never be mass produced.

As far as I know, you're wrong. The first serial contracts for the su-57 are already at the signing stage.
For example, in 2020 it is planned to sign a batch of 12 su-57 units: https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6003231

Well, that really isn't mass production and most importantly, I have not heard that the development of the Saturn Izdeliye 30 is fully complete yet. It may be close but to my knowledge there are no flying versions of it yet installed in a production ready fighter.

I hope it succeeds, the Su-57 should be an impressive plane when it is produced.

Tugg

In this batch of 12 aircraft, some will be equipped with engines "Izdeliye 30".
In August 218 at the exhibition "Army-2018" was signed the first contract for the supply of 2 units su-57. These are the first production aircraft, they will be tested in the Russian army. Their delivery is scheduled for 2019-2020. In the future, the Russian army will buy su-57 as necessary, in small batches. It should be borne in mind that the total demand of Russia for such aircraft does not exceed the level of 100-150 units.

Scorpius wrote:

In this batch of 12 aircraft, some will be equipped with engines "Izdeliye 30".
In August 218 at the exhibition "Army-2018" was signed the first contract for the supply of 2 units su-57. These are the first production aircraft, they will be tested in the Russian army. Their delivery is scheduled for 2019-2020. In the future, the Russian army will buy su-57 as necessary, in small batches. It should be borne in mind that the total demand of Russia for such aircraft does not exceed the level of 100-150 units.

I hope these aircraft are being tailored to fight against the J-20, I don't think Russia has much to worry about from the West in the coming century.

Tugger wrote:

I hope it succeeds, the Su-57 should be an impressive plane when it is produced.

Tugg

Why? Do you have a vested interest in Russia attempting a qualitative military edge over other nations?

Scorpius wrote:

In this batch of 12 aircraft, some will be equipped with engines "Izdeliye 30".
In August 218 at the exhibition "Army-2018" was signed the first contract for the supply of 2 units su-57. These are the first production aircraft, they will be tested in the Russian army. Their delivery is scheduled for 2019-2020. In the future, the Russian army will buy su-57 as necessary, in small batches. It should be borne in mind that the total demand of Russia for such aircraft does not exceed the level of 100-150 units.

...so as an answer to my question I’m interpreting that as “no.”

To bring this back on-topic, this means I’m continuing to regard the C-70 as a flying concept and any claims about it being at best theoretical.