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Revelation
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JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:39 pm

Not much to report so far:

The Defense Ministry said Tuesday that an Air Self-Defense Force F-35A fighter disappeared from radar over the Pacific Ocean.

The fighter jet vanished from radar east of Aomori Prefecture at 7:27 p.m., the ministry said, adding that it is still confirming the details.

Ref: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/ ... ar-pacific

Let's hope for the best...
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cranberrysaus
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:51 pm

Wonder if it was an accident, or a defection...
 
agill
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:55 pm

cranberrysaus wrote:
Wonder if it was an accident, or a defection...


Defection?
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:28 pm

agill wrote:
cranberrysaus wrote:
Wonder if it was an accident, or a defection...


Defection?

When a agent/soldier/citizen of one country/bloc changes side for another, usually an enemy.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:53 pm

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japa ... SKCN1RL1FJ from Reuters is out but doesn't really add any new info.
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agill
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:01 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
agill wrote:
cranberrysaus wrote:
Wonder if it was an accident, or a defection...


Defection?

When a agent/soldier/citizen of one country/bloc changes side for another, usually an enemy.


I know the word, just wondering how likely that would be.
 
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Mortyman
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:08 pm

 
wingman
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:19 pm

Isn't this what F-35s do, disappear from radar? Could be visiting his girlfriend on Okinawa and no one would know. Hopefully it's just that and he'll be back.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:22 pm

wingman wrote:
Isn't this what F-35s do, disappear from radar? Could be visiting his girlfriend on Okinawa and no one would know. Hopefully it's just that and he'll be back.


A bit inappropriate, but I thought the same :lol:
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
DigitalSea
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:06 pm

Reports of an oil slick are popping up - hopefully the pilot made it out okay.
 
AngMoh
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:52 am

DigitalSea wrote:
Reports of an oil slick are popping up - hopefully the pilot made it out okay.


Wreckage found. Pilot still missing.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/as ... r-11428506
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hmmwv
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:11 am

Does F-35A have UWARS?
 
Ozair
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:26 am

hmmwv wrote:
Does F-35A have UWARS?

Not sure, the Mk16 ejection seat does have automatic liferaft inflation though.

I haven't heard yet whether the global fleet has been grounded but still holding out hope for the Japanese pilot.
 
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kanban
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:23 pm

The press keep referring to this as the second accident in 'two decades' ... since first flight was in 2006 isn't that stretching it a bit ?
 
hmmwv
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:57 pm

kanban wrote:
The press keep referring to this as the second accident in 'two decades' ... since first flight was in 2006 isn't that stretching it a bit ?


Well the X-35's first flight was in 2000, so I'm okay with calling it two decades.
 
INFINITI329
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:22 pm

The United States made finding this wreckage a top priority... the possibility of Russia or China recovering the F-35 could have been disastrous
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:26 pm

If the pilot has died wouldn't this be the first fatal incident of the F-35?
 
hmmwv
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:45 pm

INFINITI329 wrote:
The United States made finding this wreckage a top priority... the possibility of Russia or China recovering the F-35 could have been disastrous


The crash site is northeast Japan not far from shore, how is it possible that Russia or China could have recover anything? The wreckage has already been located so by the time any 3rd party can organize salvage assets and arrive onsite most of the recovery operation by Japan may already be concluded.
 
Spar
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:32 am

They say they've found wreckage. That's not necessarily where the wreck is. Remember Air France 447. 135km east of Misawa air base is about 40°40'55.51"N 142°57'32.84"E, but I've never found a way to find ocean depths, even approximate ocean depths at sea. If you click on a point with Google maps it will sometimes give you a (negative) elevation but not here. Does anyone here know how to get ocean depths at a given location?

The continental shelf dropoff occurs about 100 km farther east, so it looks like the plane will be in water shallow enough to be raised without going to extremes.
 
HAWKXP
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:13 am

Google earth shows about 5000' deep at that 40°40'55.51"N 142°57'32.84"E
 
DigitalSea
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:46 am

If the US can recover the K-129 in international waters, recovering the F-35 within Japan's territorial limit should be no problem.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:31 am

DigitalSea wrote:
If the US can recover the K-129 in international waters, recovering the F-35 within Japan's territorial limit should be no problem.


But you couldn't recover K-129 today, the capability doesn't exist anymore. Glomar Explorer was scraped in China in 2015.There are no other ships with the deep ocean lifting ability she had in service today.
 
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:57 am

Peh, recovering wreckage is such a Reagan Era thing.

Russia and China almost certainly have all they need already via cyber espionage and/or humint.
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WIederling
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:58 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
DigitalSea wrote:
If the US can recover the K-129 in international waters, recovering the F-35 within Japan's territorial limit should be no problem.


But you couldn't recover K-129 today, the capability doesn't exist anymore. Glomar Explorer was scraped in China in 2015.There are no other ships with the deep ocean lifting ability she had in service today.


Wasn't Glomar Explorer especially built for the task of getting at the wreck of K-129?
With Howard Hughes giving the "civil front" for the project?
Murphy is an optimist
 
texl1649
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:25 pm

Sad. I initially admit I suspected an engine issue, but if the pilot didn't eject that can be somewhat ruled unlikely.
 
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:32 pm

texl1649 wrote:
Sad. I initially admit I suspected an engine issue, but if the pilot didn't eject that can be somewhat ruled unlikely.

Yes, the whole 'disappeared off radar' thing is quite troubling.
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texl1649
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:47 pm

I'm not sure what you mean by that, Revelation, but I meant the human factor/loss is sad.

I think speculation as to cause of the accident is secondary, but natural. We all realize the F-35 is basically stealthy from the front only.
 
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:05 pm

texl1649 wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean by that, Revelation, but I meant the human factor/loss is sad.

I think speculation as to cause of the accident is secondary, but natural. We all realize the F-35 is basically stealthy from the front only.

All of the above.

My thought is that disappearing off radar suggests either the onset of the event was very sudden and didn't leave time for communication, or the communication system didn't function, both of which are troubling for a system that has gained operation status and has had immense resources applied to its design, manufacture and testing.

I supposed we could/should allow for a medical issue disabling the pilot suddenly, or perhaps suicide, but those seem to be outliers to me.

Overall, it's sad for the pilot and his/her loved ones, sad for JASDF, and sad for other F35 operators, and sad for LM and its extended supply chain.

Oh, yes, and also sad for the taxpayers who paid for it all.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
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hmmwv
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:43 pm

Wasn't there reports saying the pilot requested to end the training prior to the disappearance?
 
Kiwirob
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:40 pm

WIederling wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
DigitalSea wrote:
If the US can recover the K-129 in international waters, recovering the F-35 within Japan's territorial limit should be no problem.


But you couldn't recover K-129 today, the capability doesn't exist anymore. Glomar Explorer was scraped in China in 2015.There are no other ships with the deep ocean lifting ability she had in service today.


Wasn't Glomar Explorer especially built for the task of getting at the wreck of K-129?
With Howard Hughes giving the "civil front" for the project?


She was, then in the late 80's she was converted into a drillship.
 
Ozair
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:02 pm

Revelation wrote:
All of the above.

My thought is that disappearing off radar suggests either the onset of the event was very sudden and didn't leave time for communication, or the communication system didn't function, both of which are troubling for a system that has gained operation status and has had immense resources applied to its design, manufacture and testing.

I supposed we could/should allow for a medical issue disabling the pilot suddenly, or perhaps suicide, but those seem to be outliers to me.


I think it is too early to speculate what the root cause was. For example we have had enough OBOGS issues over the last five years on a host of US aircraft that it could very well explain the issue of no communication (if there was no communication). The F-35 fights a lot more spread than previous aircraft so the flight of four were almost certainly out of visual contact with each other and likely greater than 10-15nm apart.

But no system is perfect and as sad as this event is there is an opportunity to learn from it to make the aircraft safer, as occurred with the previous crash. This is also another reason why Auto-GCAS is such an important system moving forward.
 
INFINITI329
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:30 pm

hmmwv wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:
The United States made finding this wreckage a top priority... the possibility of Russia or China recovering the F-35 could have been disastrous


The crash site is northeast Japan not far from shore, how is it possible that Russia or China could have recover anything? The wreckage has already been located so by the time any 3rd party can organize salvage assets and arrive onsite most of the recovery operation by Japan may already be concluded.


Russia and China are not really known for respecting borders...
 
hmmwv
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:58 pm

INFINITI329 wrote:
hmmwv wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:
The United States made finding this wreckage a top priority... the possibility of Russia or China recovering the F-35 could have been disastrous


The crash site is northeast Japan not far from shore, how is it possible that Russia or China could have recover anything? The wreckage has already been located so by the time any 3rd party can organize salvage assets and arrive onsite most of the recovery operation by Japan may already be concluded.


Russia and China are not really known for respecting borders...


So are the US with all those FON ops. Besides, the crash site is well beyond Japan's maritime boundaries, let's not talk about EEZ as the US doesn't really recognize that.

My point is, the site is so close to Japan, and in an area facing away from Russia and China, so Japan can amass more assets for the salvage operation, and more vigorously defend the security perimeter. Thus risks of foreign interference is minimum. This will be substantially worse had it happen in East China Sea, where China can mobilize a few hundred fishing boats in relatively short notice and challenge Japanese maritime law enforcement with superior China Coast Guard cutters.
 
Ozair
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:20 am

Looks like the intent is to recover the aircraft once they actually identify where it is located.

Defense Ministry plans to pull up crashed F35

Japan's Defense Ministry is thinking of raising an Air Self-Defense Force stealth fighter, which crashed off northern Japan, once it has been found.

The F-35 went down in the waters off Aomori Prefecture last Tuesday.

One week after the accident, the SDF and US forces are still conducting an air and sea search.

The pilot remains missing, and most parts of the stealth fighter have yet to be found.

Air SDF officials say the F-35 sent an "aborting practice" signal about half an hour after it took off from the SDF's Misawa base in Aomori Prefecture. The plane disappeared from radar about a minute later.

The Air SDF says the aircraft may have crashed shortly after the pilot noticed signs of trouble. Details surrounding the incident remain unknown. It may take time to establish the cause of the crash.

The F-35 is an advanced aircraft that was developed by the United States and eight other countries. It has also been deployed to European countries and the US.

The Defense Ministry is considering working with the US to raise the plane as soon as possible in order to keep the technology secret.

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20190416_01/
 
Ozair
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:05 am

Some further details emerging again. The wreckage found is apparently from the twin tails while the search has now moved on to undersea. Additionally, the JASDF cancelled a couple of flights over the last two years due to issues, hard to tell but it could be for the specific aircraft that crashed. Given the number of flights between then and now that is probably not unusual for a new fleet being introduced into service.

Japanese F-35 Crash: Undersea Search Begins


More details regarding the April 9 loss of a Japan Air Self-Defense Force F-35A flying from Misawa air base have emerged in recent days. A major search continues to locate the missing pilot and the aircraft.
The pilot has been identified by the JASDF as Major Akinori Hosomi, 41, an experienced pilot with around 3,200 flying hours, of which 60 were in the F-35A. According to press briefings by the JASDF and Japan’s defense minister Takeshi Iwaya, the aircraft was one of four that launched for an evening air combat training sortie. Hosomi called for the formation to end the training portion of the sortie before his aircraft disappeared from radar. No further communication was received. The F-35 is equipped with a system that sends a distress signal if the ejection seat is fired but, according to a report by The Mainichi newspaper, the JASDF confirmed that no such signal was received.

In response to the missing aircraft, Japanese maritime forces launched a major surface search, with support from the guided-missile destroyer USS Stethem from the U.S. Navy’s Seventh Fleet. Boeing P-8A Poseidons joined the aerial search alongside various Japanese aircraft. Some wreckage—reportedly from the F-35A’s twin tails—was found and recovered. U.S. Forces and Japan also revealed that the Lockheed Martin U-2R had been used in the search, presumably aircraft from the 5th Reconnaissance Squadron, which are normally based at Osan, South Korea, but also often operate from Kadena air base on Okinawa. U.S. officials also denied rumors that Boeing B-52 bombers participated in the search.

Now an undersea search has been launched to locate the F-35 and its pilot, which are thought to have crashed into the ocean in an area where the depth is around 1,500 meters (4,920 feet). The submarine rescue vessel JS Chiyoda has been dispatched to the area. It is equipped with seabed-scanning sonar and deep-sea submersibles with cameras.

While, naturally, the first concern is to locate the pilot, there is a pressing need to recover the aircraft and its flight data recorder to help establish the reason for the loss. The JASDF has grounded its 12 F-35As, and other operators have considerable interest in establishing the causes. There is also a significant security angle, as China and Russia would both have a clear interest in finding the wreckage. Minister Iwaya told Japanese media that no unusual activity had been detected in the crash area, but that it is being closely monitored.

A factor that may have no bearing on the investigation, but will be taken into account, are two previous incidents to befall the aircraft in question. State Minister of Defense Kenji Harada told a lower house committee on April 11 that it had aborted flights in June 2017 and August 2018, but in both instances, the causes had been traced and the defective parts replaced.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... rch-begins
 
Ozair
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:29 am

Search efforts continue but neither Japan or the U are concerned, at least publicly, that the Chinese will be able to or even attempt to try and recover the aircraft.

China won’t find lost F-35 stealth fighter first, says Pentagon

The U.S. and Japanese militaries are dismissing the possibility that China will find Japan’s missing F-35A Lightning II aircraft before their own search parties.

“The Japanese have the lead there, and we’re working very collaboratively with them," acting Defense Secretary Patrick Shanahan said Friday. "And we’ve got a capability if what they have doesn’t prove to be sufficient.”

When asked whether he was concerned China could get to the crash site first, Shanahan said: “No, I’m not.”

The F-35, which belonged to the Japan Air Self-Defense Force, crashed in the Pacific Ocean off northern Japan on April 9. The pilot was flying with three other F-35s when he lost contact and disappeared from radar roughly 85 miles east of Misawa Air Base.

Not long after the F-35 went missing, there was speculation about whether Chinese or Russian assets were searching for the secretive aircraft and whether they could beat the U.S. and Japan to the crash site.

“We don’t have such possibility, absolutely no,” Japanese Defense Minister Takeshi Iwaya said through an interpreter during a visit with his U.S. counterpart. “We are conducting surveillance and warning activities so we can identify and find the missing aircraft.”

...

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your ... -pentagon/

More at the link.
 
Ozair
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Wed May 01, 2019 2:48 am

hmmwv wrote:
Does F-35A have UWARS?


Just found this from the below source, page 15 of a statement made to the Armed Services committee,

The single point water activated parachute harness release system on the F-35 seat is the first of its kind used worldwide

https://armedservices.house.gov/_cache/ ... 190404.pdf

Not sure if that is fitted to Japanese aircraft but I would expect so.
 
Ozair
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Tue May 07, 2019 9:40 pm

Additional debris is being recovered but no confirmed location for the crash or the bulk of the airframe.

Debris of crashed F-35 flight recorder found without storage medium

Defense Minister Takeshi Iwaya said Tuesday that the debris of a flight data recorder from a crashed Japanese Air Self-Defense Force F-35A had been recovered from the Pacific seabed but the storage medium was missing.

The U.S.-chartered deep sea search vessel Van Gogh had retrieved the heavily damaged flight recorder and a piece from the canopy since Friday, Iwaya told a press conference.

The defense minister said the ASDF will continue its operation with U.S. military support to recover the debris of the cutting-edge single-seat stealth jet developed by U.S. defense company Lockheed Martin Corp. The aircraft's pilot remains missing.

The F-35A went down April 9 off Aomori Prefecture in northeastern Japan during an ASDF night exercise, after taking off from Misawa Air Base in the prefecture.

The search operation is being conducted by a Japanese Maritime Self-Defense Force vessel, a deep-sea research ship owned by the Japan Agency for Marine-Earth Science and Technology, and the Van Gogh.

https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2019 ... edium.html
 
Ozair
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Tue May 28, 2019 9:29 am

More F-35 debris has been found by Japan.

Missing Japanese F-35 finally found on Pacific seabed

Japanese military rescue teams have discovered the wing and an engine fragment from a fifth-generation F-35A multipurpose combat aircraft, operated by the country’s Air Force, which fell into the Pacific Ocean off the coast of Aomori Prefecture in the north of Honshu Island on 9 April.

The news was announced on Tuesday at a press conference in Tokyo by Defence Minister Takeshi Iwaya.

“Discovered fragments were raised to the surface, they have sustained serious damage,” Kyodo news agency quoted Iwaya as saying.

“We will continue the search; there are still scattered fragments of the aircraft lying on the seabed.”

...

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/mi ... ic-seabed/
 
Ozair
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:53 pm

The Warzone is reporting the pilots remains have been recovered but the search itself has now been called off.

Remains Of Japanese F-35 Pilot Found As Search Is Called Off For Crashed Aircraft

In a follow-up to our ongoing coverage on the deadly crash of an F-35A belonging to the Japan Air Self Defense Force that occurred on April 9th, 2019, the body of Major Akinori Hosomi has been found after two months of searching the waters off northeastern Japan. The condition of the pilot's remains and other details regarding where the discovery occurred was not disclosed out of consideration for the experienced military aviator's family. It has also been announced that Japan has officially called off the search and recovery operation for what's left of the doomed F-35A. The U.S. Navy called off its participation in the search effort a month ago.

...

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/2 ... d-aircraft
 
aumaverick
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:18 pm

The JASDF is now stating the probable cause of the accident is related to pilot spatial disorientation.

https://www.airforcetimes.com/global/as ... dsQBLqJxFU
I'm just here so I won't get fined. - Marshawn Lynch
 
Ozair
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Re: JASDF F-35A fighter jet disappears from radar over Pacific

Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:17 pm

aumaverick wrote:
The JASDF is now stating the probable cause of the accident is related to pilot spatial disorientation.

https://www.airforcetimes.com/global/as ... dsQBLqJxFU

Makes sense, spatial disorientation remains a big issue. The below link is for a study conducted on JASDF spatial disorientation issues from 2009 in which it is reported over 92% of aircrew have experienced it and it is far more common, and severe, during night flight.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct= ... cU7NRJF1Mm

Auto GCAS cannot come quick enough.

EDIT:

Apparently a graphic from the JASDF report which is available here, https://www.mod.go.jp/asdf/news/houdou/H31/20190610.pdf

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