alberchico wrote:From what I've read, the red line that Turkey can't cross is switching on the radar and begin integrating them into the defense network. That isn't expected to happen until October. So there is still time for a diplomatic solution. It will be interesting if Trump defies our allies, the Defense Dept, and many members of his own party in offering the Turks a way out of this.
JayinKitsap wrote:An article from the DOD. It notes that all F-35 partners and all countries in NATO are aligned that when the S-400 system arrives in Turkey, they will be dropped from the F-35 program.
https://www.defense.gov/explore/story/A ... cial-says/
frmrCapCadet wrote:One would hope that the US reaction to this would not be via tweets and threats. The US needs to do what the defense department thinks necessary, and with maximum diplomacy and tact. And probably some sweeteners on the part of the US.
rheinwaldner wrote:Why don't the Russians fear, that the secrets of the S400 are falling in NATO's hand? Using Turkeys S400, NATO could thoroughly develop and train tactics and flight profiles to penetrate S400 protected airspace. Even using 4G aircraft, NATO would be able to find the weakest spot of the system. I am not 100% sure, why this purchase would reveal more secrets about the F-35 to the Russians than S400 secrets to the NATO itself.
rheinwaldner wrote:Why don't the Russians fear, that the secrets of the S400 are falling in NATO's hand?
tu204 wrote:Now I am wondering how much information Turkey has on the workings of the F-35 and what exactly would stop them from handing it over to Russia as a slap in the face to the U.S. in retaliation.
U.S. President Donald Trump said the U.S. had been placed in a “very tough situation” but the country will not sell F-35 jets to Turkey in his first mention of the matter since delivery for the Russian S-400 defence systems to Turkey started on July 12.
During the cabinet meeting on Tuesday, President Trump said the U.S. will not sell Turkey the F-35 advanced stealth fighter jets. "It is a very tough situation that they're in. And it is a very tough situation that we've been placed in the United States," said Trump: “We'll see what happens, but it's not really fair.”
Trump mentioned the refusal of Turkey’s request to buy the U.S.-made Patriot missile systems during Barack Obama’s term in the White House, and said Turkey was “forced to buy” the S-400 system.
wingman wrote:I'm surprised Trump couldn't make a deal with Erdogan after 2 1/2 years in office. I wonder what happened, is it really all Obama's fault?
Elshad wrote:Turkey formally kicked out: https://twitter.com/MarcusReports/statu ... 4175015942
Millions of dollars of contributions from Turkey wasted since 2002 because lunatic Erdoğan wants to score some anti-American points.
olle wrote:It they thrown out Turkey can probably demand USA to pay it back.
If Trump play to hard game could this mean an end to Turkey in Nato?
Consider the situation of Nato right now it seems like we soon might have the perfect storm.
Spar wrote:YIMBY wrote:When those nations fly F-35s in proximity to Russian radar they carry radar reflectors which negate the stealth aspect of the plane.Spar wrote:
If we allowed him to have those two systems together we would have to assume that the Russians would be fine tuning the target recognition software specifically for the F-35 thereby diminishing the F-35's stealthiness when flown against S-400 systems.
Our hands are tied.
Russia has S-400's and all kind of other radar and non-radar detection systems in Kaliningrad and Leningrad military districts and surveillance, reconnaissance and observation planes flying regularly in the Baltic sea, as well as ships with whatever equipment. Would that prevent US from selling or positioning state-of-art F-35's to Poland, Finland or Baltic states?
https://www.businessinsider.com/f-35-lu ... nia-2017-5
art wrote:why did Turkey not buy Patriot?
wingman wrote:or Turkey just embraces totes cray cray Islamic dictatorship.
Spar wrote:art wrote:why did Turkey not buy Patriot?
Because Turkey wanted a transfer of Patriot missile technology before it would make the purchase..
cpd wrote:wingman wrote:or Turkey just embraces totes cray cray Islamic dictatorship.
Can you repeat that in English for those of us that don't know social media speak?
wingman wrote:Totally crazy boys, totally crazy. Even at the ripe old age of 50 I make an effort to understand today's teenagers. What I mean is that Erdogan is steering Turkey awfully close to the path of Iran. The mullahs may be more behind the scenes but they wield a lot of influence, and once you uncork that genie by giving them a seat at the table it has unintended consequences. Any way you cut it, close ties to Europe and the US have given Turkey a wonderful run of economic growth and prosperity. I think this particular affair has the potential to undo some or all of that depending on how Erdogan reacts to the F-35 situation. If he plays the Incirlik card it will likely be his undoing or, worse yet, Turkey's in general. Russia and the US both play hard core geopolitics but Russia doesn't tend to sweeten the pot with economic riches for good behavior.
he Pentagon would consider allowing Turkey to rejoin the F-35 program only if the Russian-made S-400 air defense system is completely removed from Turkish soil, meaning the government in Ankara could not simply keep the systems deactivated in warehouses, the Pentagon’s top official said Wednesday.
“They have to, again, get rid of the S-400 program and completely out of the country [before] we could consider that,” Secretary of Defense Mark Esper told press when asked about the possibility Turkey could find a way to again be part of the Joint Strike Fighter program.
“I have been very clear in both my public comments and privately with my Turkish counterpart: It’s either the F-35 or the S-400,” he said. “It’s not both. It’s not park one in the garage and roll the other one out. It’s one or the other. So we are where we are, and it’s regrettable.”
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