x1234
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Air Force One (lightly loaded B742 with B744 engines, VC-25A) can't fly ADW-HND (DC-Tokyo) non-stop!?

Sat May 25, 2019 7:54 pm

I just read on Trump's Twitter and Instagram there was a refueling stop in Alaska on Trumps current Japan trip. ADW-HND is only 11,022km more than enough range of Air Force One (max range 13,000km) even routing via Alaska:
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=ADW-ANC-HND&MS=wls&DU=km

This is more than enough range of the lightly loaded B742B (VC-25A) with B744 engines to fly non-stop. Is this because Trump wanted to take a break or can Air Force One really NOT fly DC-Tokyo non-stop!?
 
rlwynn
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Re: Air Force One (lightly loaded B742 with B744 engines, VC-25A) can't fly ADW-HND (DC-Tokyo) non-stop!?

Sat May 25, 2019 7:58 pm

How do you get the idea it is lightly loaded
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kc135topboom
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Re: Air Force One (lightly loaded B742 with B744 engines, VC-25A) can't fly ADW-HND (DC-Tokyo) non-stop!?

Sat May 25, 2019 8:58 pm

The VC-25A has an unrefueled range of 6,800 nm. Yes, it should have the range.

However, great circle takes AF-1 directly over far east Russia and the Kamchatka Peninsula, as well as near Russian Air Force fighter and bomber bases there. The USAF may not have Russian approval for such an overflight, even for AF-1.

This polar route also goes over northern Alaska and within about 300 nm of the North Pole. The great circle distance ADW-HND is 5,914 nm. Winds aloft in the North Pole Region are very strong and would greatly reduce the range of any aircraft flying roughly east to west. Initial heading out of ADW is NW, but out of ANC/EDF it is W, which is what it would be in the Polar Region.

A refueling stop in ANC (more likely at EDF because it is easier to certify the fuel the USAF already owns) would make more sense.
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: Air Force One (lightly loaded B742 with B744 engines, VC-25A) can't fly ADW-HND (DC-Tokyo) non-stop!?

Sat May 25, 2019 8:59 pm

Transporting the US president is expensive anyway - no matter how they do it. So, the USAF can afford to fuel the plane for a longer leg, but make shorter hops. It gives them more flexibility in case the plane has to be called back for any urgent business at home.
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texl1649
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Re: Air Force One (lightly loaded B742 with B744 engines, VC-25A) can't fly ADW-HND (DC-Tokyo) non-stop!?

Sat May 25, 2019 9:32 pm

I assume they forego A2A refueling absent an emergency situation.
 
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AirlineCritic
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Re: Air Force One (lightly loaded B742 with B744 engines, VC-25A) can't fly ADW-HND (DC-Tokyo) non-stop!?

Sun May 26, 2019 10:43 am

They don't do aerial refueling.

Also, remember that it is a command post and needs to respond to potentially changing events. Even if you can make it to the destination without refueling, perhaps they want enough fuel onboard so that (for instance) have the ability to turn around and fly somewhere else before the destination.
 
mmo
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Re: Air Force One (lightly loaded B742 with B744 engines, VC-25A) can't fly ADW-HND (DC-Tokyo) non-stop!?

Sun May 26, 2019 1:22 pm

ADW-ONO is just over 5900NM. Add the headwind component and you are bumping up against the max range. I think you will find AF1's range us closer to 6500NM and even though it is lightly loaded, it is a very heavy aircraft. Thus, it becomes range limited.
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kc135topboom
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Re: Air Force One (lightly loaded B742 with B744 engines, VC-25A) can't fly ADW-HND (DC-Tokyo) non-stop!?

Wed May 29, 2019 11:27 pm

Air refueling is always an option. AF-1 pilots maintain air refueling proficiency in the E-4B and in the C-32B. But to schedule an air refueling requires the SS to fly aboard the tanker and the fuel aboard the tanker to be certified. Emergency refueling can happen as no one would have advanced knowledge of the mission with enough time to mess with the tanker or tanker crew. But normally the VC-25A does not air refuel. It is rumored the VC-25B will not have an air refueling capability.
 
SEA
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Re: Air Force One (lightly loaded B742 with B744 engines, VC-25A) can't fly ADW-HND (DC-Tokyo) non-stop!?

Thu May 30, 2019 2:56 pm

kc135topboom wrote:
Air refueling is always an option. AF-1 pilots maintain air refueling proficiency in the E-4B and in the C-32B. But to schedule an air refueling requires the SS to fly aboard the tanker and the fuel aboard the tanker to be certified. Emergency refueling can happen as no one would have advanced knowledge of the mission with enough time to mess with the tanker or tanker crew. But normally the VC-25A does not air refuel. It is rumored the VC-25B will not have an air refueling capability.


The VC-25A has never refueled in air with a President on board.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Air Force One (lightly loaded B742 with B744 engines, VC-25A) can't fly ADW-HND (DC-Tokyo) non-stop!?

Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:45 am

The VC25 is an extremely modified 747. All of the mods add tons of weight like communication equipment, bulletproofing, emp proofing, defensive countermeasures, on board medical facility, the spare parts it carries in the belly, etc..
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timh4000
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Re: Air Force One (lightly loaded B742 with B744 engines, VC-25A) can't fly ADW-HND (DC-Tokyo) non-stop!?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:48 pm

Just some of my opinions from numerous docs and articles about the SS and the VC25 it would appear the engines are modified beyond simply being B744 engines. This was clearly evident on 9/11. While the plane has never flown at or close to MTOW most likely, like others have said, not exactly light either. Witnesses riding AF1 that day described rocketing down the runway far faster than they had ever experienced and then the PIC stood it on its tail all the way up to 45k ft. While I don't know how much fuel it was carrying, it's a good bet it was many hours worth. As for its actual range vs its AF1 missions as has been said, its likely that while as AF1 it would be a reasonable assumption to be carrying over 2 hrs of fuel at all times. It COULD have made the trip, but not with the fuel precautions most likely to occur as AF1.
 
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kc135topboom
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Re: Air Force One (lightly loaded B742 with B744 engines, VC-25A) can't fly ADW-HND (DC-Tokyo) non-stop!?

Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:40 pm

SEA wrote:
kc135topboom wrote:
Air refueling is always an option. AF-1 pilots maintain air refueling proficiency in the E-4B and in the C-32B. But to schedule an air refueling requires the SS to fly aboard the tanker and the fuel aboard the tanker to be certified. Emergency refueling can happen as no one would have advanced knowledge of the mission with enough time to mess with the tanker or tanker crew. But normally the VC-25A does not air refuel. It is rumored the VC-25B will not have an air refueling capability.


The VC-25A has never refueled in air with a President on board.


Correct, although the VC-25A has been air refueled with both the KC-135A/E and the KC-10A. The POTUS was not aboard during these training missions. President Carter is the only POTUS to date that has been aboard an airplane that was refueled inflight. He was aboard the (then new) E-4B, 75-0125, and was air refueled by a KC-135A. At the time the E-4As, 73-1676, 73-1677, and 74-0787 (all originally built with JT-9D-7R4D2 engines) were being upgraded to the E-4B configueration with the higher thrust CF-6-50E2 engines and the full ABCP suite for NEACP and Looking Glass duties and EMP protection.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: Air Force One (lightly loaded B742 with B744 engines, VC-25A) can't fly ADW-HND (DC-Tokyo) non-stop!?

Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:47 pm

The VC-25 has 743 engines.
 
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Nomadd
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Re: Air Force One (lightly loaded B742 with B744 engines, VC-25A) can't fly ADW-HND (DC-Tokyo) non-stop!?

Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:44 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
The VC-25 has 743 engines.

CF6-80C2B1s for both

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