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Dutchy
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UFO's and the military

Wed May 29, 2019 2:55 pm

‘Wow, What Is That?’ Navy Pilots Report Unexplained Flying Objects

WASHINGTON — The strange objects, one of them like a spinning top moving against the wind, appeared almost daily from the summer of 2014 to March 2015, high in the skies over the East Coast. Navy pilots reported to their superiors that the objects had no visible engine or infrared exhaust plumes, but that they could reach 30,000 feet and hypersonic speeds.

“These things would be out there all day,” said Lt. Ryan Graves, an F/A-18 Super Hornet pilot who has been with the Navy for 10 years, and who reported his sightings to the Pentagon and Congress. “Keeping an aircraft in the air requires a significant amount of energy. With the speeds we observed, 12 hours in the air is 11 hours longer than we’d expect.”


Article in the New York times

This fascinates me. I don't really believe in UFO's, as in extraterrestrials visiting Earth, but still, this is unexplained and it is flying. Do you guys want to guess what it was? Was it a top-secret drone as these two flyers first thought?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Ozair
Posts: 3927
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: UFO's and the military

Wed May 29, 2019 3:44 pm

Dutchy wrote:
‘Wow, What Is That?’ Navy Pilots Report Unexplained Flying Objects

WASHINGTON — The strange objects, one of them like a spinning top moving against the wind, appeared almost daily from the summer of 2014 to March 2015, high in the skies over the East Coast. Navy pilots reported to their superiors that the objects had no visible engine or infrared exhaust plumes, but that they could reach 30,000 feet and hypersonic speeds.

“These things would be out there all day,” said Lt. Ryan Graves, an F/A-18 Super Hornet pilot who has been with the Navy for 10 years, and who reported his sightings to the Pentagon and Congress. “Keeping an aircraft in the air requires a significant amount of energy. With the speeds we observed, 12 hours in the air is 11 hours longer than we’d expect.”


Article in the New York times

This fascinates me. I don't really believe in UFO's, as in extraterrestrials visiting Earth, but still, this is unexplained and it is flying. Do you guys want to guess what it was? Was it a top-secret drone as these two flyers first thought?

I don't think they are top secret projects/drones. There are plenty of other places to test these without being seen by the USN.

A good discussion about the USN and UFOs and the experience that CDR Dave Fravor has is in this fighter pilot podcast episode, https://www.fighterpilotpodcast.com/episodes/035-ufos/
 
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SuperGee
Posts: 82
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Re: UFO's and the military

Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:01 am

Ozair wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
‘Wow, What Is That?’ Navy Pilots Report Unexplained Flying Objects

WASHINGTON — The strange objects, one of them like a spinning top moving against the wind, appeared almost daily from the summer of 2014 to March 2015, high in the skies over the East Coast. Navy pilots reported to their superiors that the objects had no visible engine or infrared exhaust plumes, but that they could reach 30,000 feet and hypersonic speeds.

“These things would be out there all day,” said Lt. Ryan Graves, an F/A-18 Super Hornet pilot who has been with the Navy for 10 years, and who reported his sightings to the Pentagon and Congress. “Keeping an aircraft in the air requires a significant amount of energy. With the speeds we observed, 12 hours in the air is 11 hours longer than we’d expect.”


Article in the New York times

This fascinates me. I don't really believe in UFO's, as in extraterrestrials visiting Earth, but still, this is unexplained and it is flying. Do you guys want to guess what it was? Was it a top-secret drone as these two flyers first thought?

I don't think they are top secret projects/drones. There are plenty of other places to test these without being seen by the USN.

A good discussion about the USN and UFOs and the experience that CDR Dave Fravor has is in this fighter pilot podcast episode, https://www.fighterpilotpodcast.com/episodes/035-ufos/



There is also a new series of shows (6 shows) on current UFO research in the USA which is being shown on the History Channel. The first show (broadcast last Friday, 5/31/19 and still available on History Channel's website: https://www.history.com/shows/unidentif ... estigation) contains considerable discussion by CDR Fravor (and a number of other Navy pilots) about the experiences with UFOs by pilots and destroyers in the carrier group Nimitz. CDR Fravor was one of the pilots from that carrier who investigated a UFO while in the air. The first show in the series also contained videos of the object (s). These were the same sightings described in the NY Times article.

I don’t usually watch shows or read articles about UFOs (or shows on History Channel for that matter) because I don’t believe they are aliens from outer space. I've always thought that publicity about them is mostly tin foil hat stuff. Having said that however, I do believe that after sifting out the gazillions of reports about UFOs which end up being attributed to weather balloons, hoaxes, light tricks, etc, there remain a distinct few (particularly by trained observers such as police, military and pilots of all types) which truly can’t be explained. I have no idea what they could be.

I did decide to watch this show however and found some parts of it (mostly the Navy interviews) to be absolutely riveting. The participants go to great lengths to avoid suggesting the objects are from outer space but instead insist that they are unknown technologies from “somewhere” and because of their significantly advanced capabilities need further investigation.

I’m not here to shill for the History Channel and can’t vouch for what the remaining 5 shows in the series will be like but they are being shown Friday nights (starting 6/7/19) and should be on History Channel website as well. The series is called "Unidentified: Inside America's UFO Investigation".
 
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SuperGee
Posts: 82
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Re: UFO's and the military

Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:10 am

Here is an update on this subject. In my experience, most active duty pilots (whether military or commercial) have been reluctant to report "UFO" sightings in the past for fear of being grounded for such reasons as "mental health". Looks as if that is changing however since the Navy is now apparently developing reporting guidelines for these types of sightings and calling them "UAPs" (unidentified aerial phenomena). Here are the details of a briefing this past week to a group of U.S. Senators on the Navy sightings as well as some earlier info on the new reporting guidelines:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/20/politics ... index.html

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/ ... os-1375290
 
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smithbs
Posts: 251
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Re: UFO's and the military

Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:57 pm

Here's an interesting article: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/2 ... reflectors

To me, this makes a lot of sense. There is a lot floating around up there, as there has been since the explosion of advanced aerodynamics technologies in the late 1940s. I don't think it's any coincidence that UFO/UAP has become significant during the same time period that we humans radically opened the envelope in aerodynamics, combined with the application of the Cold War.
 
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SuperGee
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Re: UFO's and the military

Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:59 am

smithbs wrote:
Here's an interesting article: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/2 ... reflectors

To me, this makes a lot of sense. There is a lot floating around up there, as there has been since the explosion of advanced aerodynamics technologies in the late 1940s. I don't think it's any coincidence that UFO/UAP has become significant during the same time period that we humans radically opened the envelope in aerodynamics, combined with the application of the Cold War.


I’ve now seen all of the episodes of the History Channel series on UFO/UAPs and must admit, the totality of the case they presented is highly provocative. There were two main takeaways from the programs for me, the first being that the fact that the US Navy is now formalizing reporting guidelines for those encountering unknown objects is a really, REALLY big deal, does in fact represent a sea change in dealing with this topic, and represents a major achievement for those named in the program who fought to make it happen.

The second, and at least equally important in my mind is that the bottom line which I could distill from the aeronautical experts discussing the Navy sightings (at least in the case of the Nimitz group since there were also sightings by the Theodore Roosevelt carrier group both off the US east coast and also while it was in the Gulf of Arabia), is that the objects sighted had the capability of moving against the wind and without generating any heat signatures.

That fact is what seems to set these sightings apart from any others. Here is a link to unclassified documentation (including FLIR video) of those sightings (I have no connection to this organization):

https://coi.tothestarsacademy.com/

The article you referenced does seem to check many boxes regarding radar balloons and/or drones accounting for sightings but there remains a problem with the Nimitz sightings, at least in my mind. Here is the description of one of those devices from that referenced article:

“In general, the balloon system may be encouraged to travel in the vertical direction by releasing gas from the bag to descend and by either injecting gas from the compressed gas cylinder and/or jettisoning weight to ascend. The balloon system may optionally include some form of directional thrusters to allow it to travel in a specific horizontal direction and/or travel in a vertical direction at a rate faster than the effects of lift and weight would allow. Thrusters may be provided by solid rocket propellant, or alternately by miniature engines that burn hydrogen gas from the bag or from the gas cylinder.”

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/2 ... reflectors

As I see it, moving the device horizontally would involve use of thrusters burning solid rocket propellant or hydrogen gas (as described in the last sentence above) and those would generate heat signatures. The article on reflectors also referenced drones or unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) which can be launched by submarines as countermeasures.

https://news.usni.org/2016/03/31/navy-s ... nched-uavs

As near as I could tell, those UAVs/drones are propelled by electric motors and propellers so they wouldn't have exhaust plumes or heat signatures. On the other hand, those devices have a short airborne life span of less than an hour. Both of those types of devices would seem to be eliminated from consideration in the Nimitz cases.

Here are some comments by Tyler Rogaway, who also authored the article on reflectors which you referenced. These comments are from an earlier article of his titled “What The Hell Is Going On With UFO’s And The Department of Defense?”

“When it comes to the so-called "Tic Tac" incident that involved the Nimitz Carrier Strike Group off the Baja Peninsula in 2004, conclusions that are nearly impossible not to draw from it are so reality warping that even the forward-thinking aerospace community doesn't seem to have even begun coming to terms with them.

The main revelation is that technology exists that is capable of performing flying maneuvers that shatter our perceptions of propulsion, flight controls, material science, and even physics. Let me underline this again for you, the Nimitz encounter with the Tic Tac proved that exotic technology that is widely thought of as the domain of science fiction actually exists. It is real. It isn't the result of altered perception, someone's lucid dream, a stray weather balloon, or swamp gas. Someone or something has crossed the technological Rubicon and has obtained what some would call the Holy Grail of aerospace engineering.”

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/2 ... of-defense

So, who could be behind this? That’s the big question. There could only be a handful of countries (including the USA) or perhaps a private organization. If it were a private organization however, it would have to have one heck of a budget and access to a lot of high powered talent I would think.

I must admit, that after not having paid attention to UFO/UAP stories, reports, etc. for decades I am finding these recent developments very intriguing.
 
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cpd
Posts: 5924
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Re: UFO's and the military

Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:46 am

Ozair wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
‘Wow, What Is That?’ Navy Pilots Report Unexplained Flying Objects

WASHINGTON — The strange objects, one of them like a spinning top moving against the wind, appeared almost daily from the summer of 2014 to March 2015, high in the skies over the East Coast. Navy pilots reported to their superiors that the objects had no visible engine or infrared exhaust plumes, but that they could reach 30,000 feet and hypersonic speeds.

“These things would be out there all day,” said Lt. Ryan Graves, an F/A-18 Super Hornet pilot who has been with the Navy for 10 years, and who reported his sightings to the Pentagon and Congress. “Keeping an aircraft in the air requires a significant amount of energy. With the speeds we observed, 12 hours in the air is 11 hours longer than we’d expect.”


Article in the New York times

This fascinates me. I don't really believe in UFO's, as in extraterrestrials visiting Earth, but still, this is unexplained and it is flying. Do you guys want to guess what it was? Was it a top-secret drone as these two flyers first thought?

I don't think they are top secret projects/drones. There are plenty of other places to test these without being seen by the USN.

A good discussion about the USN and UFOs and the experience that CDR Dave Fravor has is in this fighter pilot podcast episode, https://www.fighterpilotpodcast.com/episodes/035-ufos/


These are most likely something the USA has built. There is even a patent out there, but make of that what you will.
 
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smithbs
Posts: 251
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Re: UFO's and the military

Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:38 pm

SuperGee wrote:
or swamp gas.


Yesterday I saw the strangest thing while driving. There was a circular vortex hovering about 100 ft above the trees, about 20 ft off the road. The circle appeared to be about 10 feet in diameter, ovoid in shape. The circle was very tightly defined, like a vortex, with vapor circulating around it. Otherwise the sky was clear. I was driving or I would have taken a picture. There were only trees below it, which I checked because I thought it might be a smoke ring blown by a smoke stack, but no.

Point being, even the atmosphere serves up weird phenomenon whenever it feels like it. Combined with the human race that has been doing everything possible in the air since the 1950s, I believe there are explanations out there - but we don't know yet, due to our own imperfect knowledge, coincidences and various secrets.
 
HaveBlue
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Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2004 3:01 pm

Re: UFO's and the military

Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:30 pm

smithbs wrote:
SuperGee wrote:
or swamp gas.


Yesterday I saw the strangest thing while driving. I was driving or I would have taken a picture.


I'm not doubting your story but if I saw something that amazing and elusive I damn sure would have stopped the car and grabbed a photo of it.
 
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SuperGee
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 9:42 am

Re: UFO's and the military

Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:58 pm

cpd wrote:
Ozair wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Article in the New York times

This fascinates me. I don't really believe in UFO's, as in extraterrestrials visiting Earth, but still, this is unexplained and it is flying. Do you guys want to guess what it was? Was it a top-secret drone as these two flyers first thought?

I don't think they are top secret projects/drones. There are plenty of other places to test these without being seen by the USN.

A good discussion about the USN and UFOs and the experience that CDR Dave Fravor has is in this fighter pilot podcast episode, https://www.fighterpilotpodcast.com/episodes/035-ufos/


These are most likely something the USA has built. There is even a patent out there, but make of that what you will.


Hopefully, they ARE a very advanced (and still highly classified) technology built by the USA (as opposed to by any other nation). There apparently were many reports over the years about a strange, unknown, triangular shaped object in the skies over the US which was later revealed to be the F-117 stealth fighter during its then still secret pre-operational testing. It would be no surprise to think that something currently that advanced and secret would be known only to a few (and unknown to most in the military). The question would then be if built by the US, why would they need to be operating around and apparently observing US fleet operations off both coasts and in the middle east?

The answer proposed by Tyler Rogaway in that same article quoted previously:

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/2 ... of-defense

"Could it be ours?

The latter possibility is also very hard for people to come to terms with—that this capability could belong to the U.S. military. There is no better place to test such a system than against the Nimitz Carrier Strike Group with its CEC abilities during its workup off the Baja Coast. It is not an operational environment. Aircraft are not armed and nobody is expecting a fight. It is high-level integrated training with crews that have sharpened skills as they prepare for a cruise in which they could very well be called upon to fight for their country. Those warning areas and range complexes that extend out and down from the Channel Islands off the SoCal coast are among the best space the U.S. military has for training and testing advanced hardware and tactics in a secure and sanitized environment.

In other words, it was an ideal testing environment that featured the very best aerial, surface, and undersea surveillance sensors and sensor crews on the planet."

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