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IrishTexan
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C-17 crew in bravery nomination for SNN landing

Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:44 pm

 
JJT
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Re: C-17 crew in bravery nomination for SNN landing

Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:24 am

IrishTexan wrote:


Love it. Hats off to the crew.....hope the sailor makes a good recovery.

Great hearing stories like these when people perform under pressure and get the job done for their mates!
 
Max Q
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Re: C-17 crew in bravery nomination for SNN landing

Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:46 am

Good job but fail to see the ‘heroism’


Ailing passenger caused diversion into landing in fairly poor weather


Don’t we do that all the time in the
civilian world ?


I know I have and several of my colleagues over the years, no medals were proposed..
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: C-17 crew in bravery nomination for SNN landing

Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:02 pm

It’s much rarer in the military, but I’d have to agree about writing up medals. Landing in Shannon was hardly an invasion of hostile airspace.
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: C-17 crew in bravery nomination for SNN landing

Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:11 pm

Max Q wrote:
Good job but fail to see the ‘heroism’


I have trouble seeing it, too. Good decision-making is a requirement anyway.

Maybe the airmen deserve a medal because Cat II landings are extremely rare in the USAF...
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
checksixx
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Re: C-17 crew in bravery nomination for SNN landing

Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:55 pm

Max Q wrote:
Good job but fail to see the ‘heroism’


"The Air Medal is awarded to U.S. and civilian personnel for single acts of heroism or meritorious achievements while participating in aerial flight and foreign military personnel in actual combat in support of operations."

The portion I've highlighted is most likely why they're getting them. Also, while you 'fail to see it', it would be exceedingly rare for them to approve this medal unless the circumstances were very difficult and challenging. I would suggest that the description of the landing conditions was modest at best, and that most crews would have likely aborted the attempt at landing there.
 
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cjg225
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Re: C-17 crew in bravery nomination for SNN landing

Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:43 pm

I don't see how it's hard to see. They had a very difficult decision to make and then had to execute under even more difficult circumstances. They did so, and quite possibly saved someone's life in the process.

Well done by the entire crew.
Restoring Penn State's transportation heritage...
 
Max Q
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Re: C-17 crew in bravery nomination for SNN landing

Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:08 am

checksixx wrote:
Max Q wrote:
Good job but fail to see the ‘heroism’


"The Air Medal is awarded to U.S. and civilian personnel for single acts of heroism or meritorious achievements while participating in aerial flight and foreign military personnel in actual combat in support of operations."

The portion I've highlighted is most likely why they're getting them. Also, while you 'fail to see it', it would be exceedingly rare for them to approve this medal unless the circumstances were very difficult and challenging. I would suggest that the description of the landing conditions was modest at best, and that most crews would have likely aborted the attempt at landing there.




Don’t see why ‘most crews would have aborted the landing’ why ?


I’m sure the C17 has a sophisticated avionics suite, the weather was just not an issue or a big deal for those of us in the civilian world



No question the crew did a good job but
I dont see the logic of awarding medals for this, as transport pilots, civil or military this
scenario is just part of the regular job description
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: C-17 crew in bravery nomination for SNN landing

Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:01 pm

Max Q

Do you have any military experience?
 
trex8
Posts: 5325
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

Re: C-17 crew in bravery nomination for SNN landing

Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:43 pm

Crews flying the Berlin airlift and CNAC crews flying the Hump were awarded the Air Medal for just flying x number of missions, regardless of what "heroic" activity they did.
 
checksixx
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Re: C-17 crew in bravery nomination for SNN landing

Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:33 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Max Q

Do you have any military experience?


Doubtful, lol...
 
prebennorholm
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Re: C-17 crew in bravery nomination for SNN landing

Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:37 pm

Max Q wrote:
No question the crew did a good job but
I dont see the logic of awarding medals for this, as transport pilots, civil or military this
scenario is just part of the regular job description

In the military medals are a substitute for overtime pay.

(...assuming nothing changed since Ieft the air force in 1967)
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
Max Q
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Re: C-17 crew in bravery nomination for SNN landing

Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:38 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Max Q

Do you have any military experience?



While I haven’t, It’s unfortunate you’re perceiving my comments as a criticism of the military


My oldest Son has served 15 years in the
Navy and has been awarded a Bronze star,
that wasnt for a weather diversion


Bearing in mind you said this, I’m surprised at your question:
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society
 
Max Q
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: C-17 crew in bravery nomination for SNN landing

Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:39 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
It’s much rarer in the military, but I’d have to agree about writing up medals. Landing in Shannon was hardly an invasion of hostile airspace.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society
 
checksixx
Posts: 1219
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:39 pm

Re: C-17 crew in bravery nomination for SNN landing

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:08 am

Max Q wrote:
that wasnt for a weather diversion


Ah...maybe this is just a mistake since you clearly didn't read the story then. It WASN'T a weather diversion. Glad to help ya!
 
Max Q
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Re: C-17 crew in bravery nomination for SNN landing

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:32 am

The diversion was for an ailing passenger, the implication was that
any other crew would’ve ‘aborted’ the landing due to the wx
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society
 
Reddevil556
Posts: 67
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Re: C-17 crew in bravery nomination for SNN landing

Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:13 am

I guess it would be more “heroic” if the landing was in a country we had weak diplomatic ties with. Diverting for a medical reason to Russia or maybe a Belarus would be a whole different story. Last time I checked the US and Ireland have pretty tight ties. Sure it may have violated protocol, but anyone that has every served knows that protocol is usually more of a guideline, common sense prevails. We use the saying “better to beg for forgiveness than to ask for permission.” In my years the only people who get bent around the axel about protocol are career lifers that care more about their next promotion than the task at hand. The CPT made the common sense decision, I wouldn’t call it heroic, rather use the term bold. The term hero gets thrown around so much nowadays that it seems to diminish the meaning.
Jumped out of: C130H, C130J, C17A, C212, CH47, and UH60. Bucket list: C160, A400, C2
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: C-17 crew in bravery nomination for SNN landing

Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:43 am

Max Q wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Max Q

Do you have any military experience?



While I haven’t, It’s unfortunate you’re perceiving my comments as a criticism of the military


My oldest Son has served 15 years in the
Navy and has been awarded a Bronze star,
that wasnt for a weather diversion


Bearing in mind you said this, I’m surprised at your question:


While I agree it’s a bit much in decoration department, the USAF is famous for being generous for awarding medals as a promotion fodder. An Air Medal, in peacetime for a single event, is great for OPR and is seen as commander recognition of the individuals. An AM is below a MSM which is equal in priority to the Bronze Star. IOW, this whole story isn’t out of character even if, as a commander, I wouldn’t have thought merited the award and certainly had crews that could have eligible using this standard.

I don’t think your criticizing the AF as much as being puzzled at the award for an action, in your experience, would hardly merit mention. Different context.
 
Max Q
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: C-17 crew in bravery nomination for SNN landing

Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:04 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Max Q wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Max Q

Do you have any military experience?



While I haven’t, It’s unfortunate you’re perceiving my comments as a criticism of the military


My oldest Son has served 15 years in the
Navy and has been awarded a Bronze star,
that wasnt for a weather diversion


Bearing in mind you said this, I’m surprised at your question:


While I agree it’s a bit much in decoration department, the USAF is famous for being generous for awarding medals as a promotion fodder. An Air Medal, in peacetime for a single event, is great for OPR and is seen as commander recognition of the individuals. An AM is below a MSM which is equal in priority to the Bronze Star. IOW, this whole story isn’t out of character even if, as a commander, I wouldn’t have thought merited the award and certainly had crews that could have eligible using this standard.

I don’t think your criticizing the AF as much as being puzzled at the award for an action, in your experience, would hardly merit mention. Different context.



Point well made Gxf


Best wishes
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society
 
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smithbs
Posts: 270
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Re: C-17 crew in bravery nomination for SNN landing

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:41 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
While I agree it’s a bit much in decoration department, the USAF is famous for being generous for awarding medals as a promotion fodder. An Air Medal, in peacetime for a single event, is great for OPR and is seen as commander recognition of the individuals. An AM is below a MSM which is equal in priority to the Bronze Star. IOW, this whole story isn’t out of character even if, as a commander, I wouldn’t have thought merited the award and certainly had crews that could have eligible using this standard.

I don’t think your criticizing the AF as much as being puzzled at the award for an action, in your experience, would hardly merit mention. Different context.


:thumbsup:

You have to think in USAF terms. Every year you need an OPR written up detailing what a super hero you've been. The pipeline for awards and decs always needs to be tended and stocked - on a quarterly and yearly basis. Stuff like this, while I agree is kind of mundane, is of course going to be award/dec/OPR material on planet USAF.

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