BarfBag
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Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:18 pm

Chandrayaan-2 Orbiter-Lander-Rover combination set for mid July launch
Image
Chandrayaan-1 was launched in August 2009 and was an orbiter and impactor. The mission was successful.
India also conducted a successful Mars mission Mangalyaan-1 in 2014, which is still active. Mangalyaan-2 is scheduled for 2022-23.

The first Indian human spaceflight program - Gaganyaan - is planned for late 2021, with a 3 member crew.
 
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WingsFan
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:15 pm

Exciting times ahead! Chandrayaan-2 is expected to have orbiter, lander and a rover. Very nice!
 
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:51 am

Very exciting!

But it begs the question, what strategic significance does India see in the moon? Legitimate question.
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:12 pm

WingsFan wrote:
Exciting times ahead! Chandrayaan-2 is expected to have orbiter, lander and a rover. Very nice!

Yup, and on the GSLV Mk 3 too - first time it’s beint used for something other than lofting heavy sats .
TWA772LR wrote:
But it begs the question, what strategic significance does India see in the moon? Legitimate question.

Same as what anyone else who’s been there sees.

Technological accomplishments inspire the younger generation, drives funding into scientific and industrial engineering R&D and enhances national cohesion.
 
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:41 pm

After a one week delay on account of a helium tank leak, the GSLV Mk III carrying Chandrayaan-2 lifted off:
Image
Image
 
Armadillo1
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:21 pm

if i understand correctly about GSLV Mk III ,
http://spaceflight101.com/spacerockets/gslv-mk-iii/

side busters S200 operates for 130 seconds and is separated from the launch vehicle at T+149 seconds
(means 19 sec dead weight??)

Around 110 seconds into the flight, 20 seconds ahead of booster burnout, the two engines of the core stage are ignited.
(providing too much trust at the end of boosters working time??)
 
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:49 pm

Well done! Best of luck to this probe, going to a part of the Moon that has become of great interest, not just prestige at all.
 
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:18 pm

Armadillo1 wrote:
if i understand correctly about GSLV Mk III ,
http://spaceflight101.com/spacerockets/gslv-mk-iii/

side busters S200 operates for 130 seconds and is separated from the launch vehicle at T+149 seconds
(means 19 sec dead weight??)

Around 110 seconds into the flight, 20 seconds ahead of booster burnout, the two engines of the core stage are ignited.
(providing too much trust at the end of boosters working time??)

The GSLV Mk 3 operation turns on the L110 core stage (2x Vikas UDMH/N2O4) just past MaxQ . The SRBs provide the best thrust for the money while making it out of the dense lower atmosphere, and their propellant grain design is suited to modulate thrust at this point. The SSME also dials down thrust while approaching MaxQ, and the SS SRBs have similar propellant grain design.

However, the Mk3 is built largely from scaling up or reusing existing parts and tech - except for the CE-20 LOX/LH2 cryogenic upper stage that's a completely new animal - ISRO's first gas generator cryogenic stage (the GSLV Mk2's CUS is a staged combustion design). L110 stage itself is a carryover from the PSLV's second stage, and the SRBs are larger versions of the S139s on the PSLV and GSLV.

ISRO intends to replace the L110 in the Mk 3 entirely with a new LOX/RP-1 stage sometime in the next year. This will increase the Mk3's peak GTO payload capacity from 4.5-5 tons right now, to between 6-10 tons, effectively on par with Ariane V / Falcon 9 FT / Long March 5 / Delta IV Heavy, and eliminating the need to use Arianespace to launch India's heaviest commsats.
 
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:41 pm

ISRO has an official launch kit report describing the mission, launcher and payload:
Chandrayaan-2 Mission Launch Kit

The lander and rover design is notable for NOT using radioisotope heating . Instead, ISRO studied the effect of extreme cold on the rover's power system and is trying to prove whether the system can wake from deep sleep after the cold lunar night. They released multiple research papers on the topic:

Design framework of a Configurable Electrical Power System for Lunar Rover
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Sa ... -rover.pdf

Study on survivability of 18650 Lithium-ion cells at cryogenic temperatures
https://archive.org/details/StudyOnSurv ... es/page/n5

Estimation of Thermodynamic Equilibrium Temperature of Chandrayaan-2 Rover Solar Panel during Long Lunar Nights
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/do ... 1&type=pdf
 
texdravid
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:40 am

Very proud of India for this space race, but 2021 for a manned space mission?

That’s a bit much?
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:28 pm

A bit much in what way ? Too rushed and not ready ? The ISRO don’t have a record of being mindless of risk. Chandrayaan 2 itself had its countdown halted the first time about an hour from T-0, in front of the Indian president in the audience, because of a leak. The flight director pithily explained that his job was to provide the visiting dignitary with a launch display and it a fireworks display.

The GSLV Mk 3 is man rated.
 
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:49 pm

Beautiful! Great job India and all those that participated and worked to get this off. Great to see another nation succeeding in the quest to move into space.

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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:23 pm

BarfBag wrote:
A bit much in what way ? Too rushed and not ready ? The ISRO don’t have a record of being mindless of risk.

The GSLV Mk 3 is man rated.

I have no doubt that the launcher itself is safe. However, the ISRO neither have a significant record of atmospheric reentry missions, nor are they known for generous funding. And quite frankly, crewed spaceflight is expensive. ESA chose not to complete their Hermes vehicle, NASA felt okay not to have their own launcher for nearly a decade, and Russia is still using the old but proven Soyuz. The only countries that can bring humans to space today are Russia and China.

That is not to say that India is incapable of such missions. But the lack of experience and funding makes it extremely ambitious to develop human spaceflight capabilities in just two years.
For comparison, SpaceX' Dragon had its first flight in 2010, development of the crewed capsule started before 2011, and first flight may or may not happen this year.
 
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:13 pm

A background study of the topic is instructive before embarking on such long responses. The Indian Human Spaceflight Program did not "develop human spaceflight capabilities in just two years" . It was sanctioned and funded beginning Indian fiscal 2007-08. The current schedule just happens to be for a Dec 2021 launch plan for a 3-person launch, preceded by an uncrewed mission a year prior, i.e. 2 years from now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Hu ... _Programme
The Indian Human Spaceflight Programme (HSP[1]) was created in 2007[2] by the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) to develop the technology needed to launch crewed orbital spacecraft into low Earth orbit.[3] The first crewed flight is planned with a spacecraft called Gaganyaan for December 2021[4] on a home-grown GSLV Mk-III rocket.

Before Gaganyaan mission announcement in August 2018, human spaceflight was not the priority for ISRO, though most of the required capability for it had been realised.[8] ISRO has already developed most of the technologies for crewed flight and it performed a Crew Module Atmospheric Re-entry Experiment and a Pad Abort Test for the mission.[9] The project will cost less than Rs. 10,000 crore.[10][11] In December 2018, the government approved further ₹ 100 billion (US$1.5 billion) for a 7-days crewed flight of 3 astronauts to take place in December, 2021.[4][5][12]


The CARE payload was the very first mission of the GSLV Mk III, and this was 5 years ago.

As for 'lack of experience', everyone starts from 0. Arguing "India shouldn't launch humans because it hasn't launched human missions before" is a circular argument quite literally. Until 2009 India had no experience at deep space missions, and then it launched Chandrayaan-1 successfully. Until 2014 it had no interplanetary mission experience, and then it executed Mangalyaan-1 successfully.
 
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:12 pm

Would India have received any usefull information from their participation in the Intercosmos program back in the 80's that they can use now?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rakesh_Sharma
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:55 am

Rakesh Sharma is WAY too long ago :smile: ISRO has already independently developed a space suit, the 3-man capsule (where some consultancy was involved with Russia), and has done not one but two capsule test experiments, with another planned for the final capsule design. It also conducted the pad abort test last year. In effect, it's already accomplished most of the headline test items associated with the Gaganyaan programme even before the full mission sanction was given in late 2018.
SRE 1
CARE, with a full Gaganyaan capsule boilerplate
ISRO pad abort test
Isro displays space suit, crew model for 2022 mission
ISRO sets up human space flight center in Bengaluru (Bangalore)
ISRO HSFC presser, with a long news archive
However, with the ISRO HSFC being so new, the first batch will also be trained at the Gagarin Flight Test Center / Zvezdny Gorogok (is that what it's still called), where they have more extensive facilities:
Glavcosmos / ISRO deal to train personnel for Gaganyaan mission
 
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:16 am

https://www.isro.gov.in/update/24-jul-2 ... spacecraft
Mission Plan for Chandrayaan-2

The spacecraft is scheduled to reach moon orbit by August 20, 2019.
 
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:02 am

BarfBag wrote:
Rakesh Sharma is WAY too long ago :smile: ISRO has already independently developed a space suit, the 3-man capsule (where some consultancy was involved with Russia), and has done not one but two capsule test experiments, with another planned for the final capsule design. It also conducted the pad abort test last year. In effect, it's already accomplished most of the headline test items associated with the Gaganyaan programme even before the full mission sanction was given in late 2018.
SRE 1
CARE, with a full Gaganyaan capsule boilerplate
ISRO pad abort test
Isro displays space suit, crew model for 2022 mission
ISRO sets up human space flight center in Bengaluru (Bangalore)
ISRO HSFC presser, with a long news archive
However, with the ISRO HSFC being so new, the first batch will also be trained at the Gagarin Flight Test Center / Zvezdny Gorogok (is that what it's still called), where they have more extensive facilities:
Glavcosmos / ISRO deal to train personnel for Gaganyaan mission



Hey well good on the ISRO for developing an indegenous spacecraft and systems.

Even the Chinese gave up on developing their own suits and just ordered Sokol and Orlan suits from Russia.
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:03 am

BarfBag wrote:
https://www.isro.gov.in/update/24-jul-2019/chandrayaan-2-updatemission-plan-of-chandrayaan-2-spacecraft
Mission Plan for Chandrayaan-2

The spacecraft is scheduled to reach moon orbit by August 20, 2019.


Ia there a particular reason for taking so long to reach the target? Spending a lot of time in Earth orbit.
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:02 pm

tu204 wrote:
BarfBag wrote:
https://www.isro.gov.in/update/24-jul-2019/chandrayaan-2-updatemission-plan-of-chandrayaan-2-spacecraft
Mission Plan for Chandrayaan-2

The spacecraft is scheduled to reach moon orbit by August 20, 2019.


Ia there a particular reason for taking so long to reach the target? Spending a lot of time in Earth orbit.

It uses Hohmann transfer orbits to maximize payload, and applying the Oberth Effect to use a high delta-V at the perigee while progressively raising apogee until it can make lunar transfer within the efficient window. A direct shot may take less time but compromises maximum payload weight, without a much more powerful rocket . This approach was also used by Chang'e 1 as well as Chandrayaan-1 and Mangalyaan-1, both of which were launched by relatively puny PSLVs but still got the job done. Chandrayaan-1 weighed 1400kg. In comparison, Chandrayaan-2 has an orbiter, lander and rover with a combined weight of ~4000kg.
 
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:31 pm

BarfBag wrote:
tu204 wrote:
BarfBag wrote:
https://www.isro.gov.in/update/24-jul-2019/chandrayaan-2-updatemission-plan-of-chandrayaan-2-spacecraft
Mission Plan for Chandrayaan-2

The spacecraft is scheduled to reach moon orbit by August 20, 2019.


Ia there a particular reason for taking so long to reach the target? Spending a lot of time in Earth orbit.

It uses Hohmann transfer orbits to maximize payload, and applying the Oberth Effect to use a high delta-V at the perigee while progressively raising apogee until it can make lunar transfer within the efficient window. A direct shot may take less time but compromises maximum payload weight, without a much more powerful rocket . This approach was also used by Chang'e 1 as well as Chandrayaan-1 and Mangalyaan-1, both of which were launched by relatively puny PSLVs but still got the job done. Chandrayaan-1 weighed 1400kg. In comparison, Chandrayaan-2 has an orbiter, lander and rover with a combined weight of ~4000kg.


Hey thanks for the detailed explanation!
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texdravid
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:26 pm

Hey I’m all for manned Indian space flight. Big fan.

Just don’t want an unreasonable timetable that compromises safety.
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:40 pm

For BarfBag or another knowledgable Indian member, what are the Asian language characters on the main boosters? It looks like Japanese to me but I could easily be wrong. Appreciate any clarification around a partnership in this project, I didn't see anything mentioned in the thread.
 
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:11 pm

It’s just the same thing in Hindi . ISRO and Bharat , denoting the official name of the country in Hindi - Bharat Ganarajya (Republic of India).

There was no partnership on this project - it’s a solo effort from India .
 
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:31 pm

July 26, 2019

Second earth bound orbit raising maneuver for Chandryaan-2 spacecraft has been performed successfully today (July 26, 2019) at 0108 hrs (IST) as planned, using the onboard propulsion system for a firing duration of 883 seconds. The orbit achieved is 251 x 54829 km.
All spacecraft parameters are normal.
The third orbit raising maneuver is scheduled on July 29, 2019, between 1430 – 1530 hrs (IST).

July 29, 2019

Third earth bound orbit raising maneuver for Chandryaan-2 spacecraft has been performed successfully today (July 29, 2019) at 1512 hrs (IST) as planned, using the onboard propulsion system for a firing duration of 989 seconds. The orbit achieved is 276 x 71792 km.
All spacecraft parameters are normal.
The fourth orbit raising maneuver is scheduled on August 2, 2019, between 1400 – 1500 hrs (IST).

https://www.isro.gov.in/chandrayaan2-latest-updates
 
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:40 pm

From a Turkish website:
Image
 
golfradio
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:51 pm

Is the landing going to be live streamed? I am figuring out how to watch it live in North America.
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:46 pm

golfradio wrote:
Is the landing going to be live streamed? I am figuring out how to watch it live in North America.

I am looking for it to. Space.com is pretty reliable (as I suspect you already know). They don't have a link yet but gave a time:
Chandrayaan-2, which is scheduled to touch down on Friday, Sept. 6, between 4 p.m. and 5 p.m. EDT (Sept. 7, between 1:30 a.m. and 2:30 a.m. local time at mission control in India). The Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO), which oversees the mission,

https://www.space.com/india-chandrayaan ... -site.html

So I'll be checking there again tomorrow
Good luck to the entire Chandrayaan-2 team!

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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:47 pm

Tugger wrote:

So I'll be checking there again tomorrow
Good luck to the entire Chandrayaan-2 team!

Tugg


Thanks Tugger. Looks like ISRO is indeed going to live stream it on youtube https://www.isro.gov.in/gslv-mk-iii-m1- ... 9-0110-hrs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iqNTeZAq-c
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:44 pm

That's correct - ISRO is livestreaming the whole thing. The '15 minutes of terror' they say. So far all orbit maneuvers have been perfectly executed, but those were things that needed math and good rocket technology to accomplish - both of which ISRO have mastery over. The next step is something with more variables.
 
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:18 pm

Only a few minutes to go till touchdown!
(I'm surprised there is only 150,000 watching - slowly increasing - on youtube)

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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:29 pm

The lack of confirmation/information is nerve-racking!
You can see it in all the team's faces too (of course).

The last bit is from 400 meters from the surface. Soo close! Come on....

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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:37 pm

It's not looking good. The deviation from the path is too significant, and it appears the lander went into a tumble it didn't recover from.
 
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:41 pm

BarfBag wrote:
It's not looking good. The deviation from the path is too significant, and it appears the lander went into a tumble it didn't recover from.

Yes, I saw one image where the lander appeared to be upside down in the graphic representation of it and it appeared to keep rotating.... Just went back and found it in the live stream, the craft was 2.77km altitude.

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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:42 pm

2AM and the country is awake watching all this. It's great to see the PM made the effort to be there too. Hopefully amongst all those young kids who were also invited to ISRO mission control and those watching on TV like me, we will have our future moon mission director or the first Indian to step on the moon.
 
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:48 pm

ISRO states comms lost at 2.1km altitude . Status of lander unknown. Orbiter will soon survey the area with its camera.
 
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:52 pm

Space is hard.
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:56 pm

Until next time ...
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:57 pm

Yeah it is. Some kind of catastrophic failure with the lander for all comms to be lost all of a sudden just 2km from the ground after getting that far perfectly. Both Madrid and Mauritius reporting comms stopped at that point.

There's some intermittent news about the orbiter hearing comms but that seems like press sensationalism. I wish they'd just let the ISRO state things instead of making up filler noise.
 
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:26 pm

That damn kraken again ...
 
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:00 pm

I heard it was some jerk in a red sports car that wasn't looking where they were going!

But seriously, my hat is off to the entire team there. This must be heartbreaking for all involved.
I was watching and excited right there with them.. and then concern and then disappointment set in.

And Modi is right: "It is not a small thing that we have achieved. Be courageous."

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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:10 am

Did anybody expect anything different?
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:19 am

rlwynn wrote:
Did anybody expect anything different?

Yes. I expected success.

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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:50 am

Why?
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:21 am

rlwynn wrote:
Why?

Cause India has a 95% success rate in space missions.

Even Chandrayaan-2 is 95% successful. It went till at least 2 km of moon surface and the accompanying orbiter is orbiting as required.

This is like 3rd like failure in over 50 missions that ISRO has undertaken in last 15 years.
 
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Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:21 pm

Fair enough did not know that the success was so high. Would not think that India could have so success with the way everthing else seems to go.
I can drive faster than you
 
anshabhi
Posts: 2111
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:52 am

Looks like ISRO has located the lander:

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/chandr ... 033778.cms

rlwynn wrote:
Fair enough did not know that the success was so high. Would not think that India could have so success with the way everthing else seems to go.


In my opinion space mission requires a team of <200 very talented Indians, who can make things work. That's where the success in space comes from.

The trouble starts when you have to involve 1.3 billion people in any decision or action.
 
hmmwv
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:44 am

Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:36 am

Well if ISRO can identify the lander via thermal image that means it didn't just crash from 2km altitude, maybe the lander executed all its program and successfully landed, only that no one knows because the entire communication suite went offline. Am I being too optimistic?
 
maint123
Posts: 191
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:18 pm

Re: Chandrayaan-2: India's second moon mission, in July 2019

Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:06 am

It's crashed at a speed of around 180 km/hr.
The lander might not be in pieces but the communication set up and electronics normally can't take this impact.
For interested ppl, DSN eyes is trying to communicate with the lander.
https://eyes.nasa.gov/dsn/dsn.html
Lander is CH2L
Orbiter is CH2O

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