Ozair
Posts: 4145
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: New FCAS Unveiled by Dassault for France, Germany & Spain

Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:54 pm

So the negotiation and campaign from Dassault on the FCAS really begins. They are obviously keen for this to be carrier capable from the start but as I have suggested in the past I doubt the Germans will be as enthused. Carrier capability will add weight and complexity to the basic airframe and possibly turn off some export buyers.

European FCAS fighter to be optimised for carrier ops

The manned New Generation Fighter (NGF) component of the Future Combat Air System/Système de Combat Aérien Futur (FCAS/SCAF) being jointly developed by Dassault Aviation and Airbus will be optimised for carrier operations from the outset, a source close to the programme has confirmed to Jane's .

The NGF will follow a similar development path to that of the three variants of the Dassault Rafale fighter, the source added.

Engineers will take into account the lessons learnt from the Dassault Étendard, Super Étendard, and Rafale programmes for corrosion resistance and catapult shots/deck landings compatibility. During carrier landings, large loads are inflicted upon the airframe when impacting the flight deck. The paths through which these shocks and impact loads are absorbed will have to be carefully engineered, the source said.

...

https://www.janes.com/article/90221/eur ... arrier-ops
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 928
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:20 am

Re: New FCAS Unveiled by Dassault for France, Germany & Spain

Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:38 pm

I wonder if with modern design, analysis, and construction methods if you could design two related airframes. Two that are largely similar but differ on the strength and weight of certain components.

Especially if the majority of the value is going to be in things like stealth and avionics. Which will largely be the same between versions.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12190
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: New FCAS Unveiled by Dassault for France, Germany & Spain

Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:56 am

Spar wrote:
Alfons wrote:
Ozair wrote:
Alfons, no such code exists. I am very familiar with the classic Hornet and this has never been mentioned by any operator. Nor is there a code for the F-15,16 etc.

As you wish, no problem. :-)

What does "As you wish" mean?

Are you backing off from "I know from first-hand"?


Watch The Princess Bride.
 
Ozair
Posts: 4145
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: New FCAS Unveiled by Dassault for France, Germany & Spain

Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:03 am

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
I wonder if with modern design, analysis, and construction methods if you could design two related airframes. Two that are largely similar but differ on the strength and weight of certain components.

Especially if the majority of the value is going to be in things like stealth and avionics. Which will largely be the same between versions.

It is certainly possible to do that and while the two airframes could share engines and avionics and stealth etc you would likely still require two different programs to test the airframes given the physical differences.

If you consider Rafale it has a slight weight difference between the C and M versions while the F-35 has a significantly greater difference between the A and C versions. The F-35A has clearly been optimised for the CTOL role while the F-35C has been for the CV role. Given the F-35C will probably have a larger production run than all Rafale variants combined you can see why the JSF program was able to justify the optimisation.

I can't see FCAS manufacturing more than 400 airframes combined including exports so I question whether a separate program for an optimised variant would be worth it. As you suggest new technology may make this easier/cheaper but I'm not yet convinced.
 
Ozair
Posts: 4145
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: New FCAS Unveiled by Dassault for France, Germany & Spain

Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:05 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Spar wrote:
Alfons wrote:
As you wish, no problem. :-)

What does "As you wish" mean?

Are you backing off from "I know from first-hand"?


Watch The Princess Bride.

I am not left handed...
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 11721
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: New FCAS Unveiled by Dassault for France, Germany & Spain

Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:13 pm

Germany has said that they would be in favor of building an EU aircraft carrier, so I don't see them opposing a carrier capability !
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Ozair
Posts: 4145
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: New FCAS Unveiled by Dassault for France, Germany & Spain

Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:23 pm

Some commentary from the CEO of the European Defency Agency on whether FCAS and Tempest are both sustainable going forward. Other comments include an expectation that there will be a consolidation of the European defence industry over the next 5-10 years.

Perhaps the solution is to have BAE buy Dassault… I wonder where we would be today if Airbus and BAE had merged or if Enders suggestion in 2018 of the fighter divisions of Airbus and BAE merging. I’m not sure now the respective Governments would let it happen.

3 questions with the EU defense chief on Europe’s future fighters

Underway in Europe are two high profile sixth-generation aircraft efforts: the Franco-German-Spanish Future Combat Air System, and Britain’s Tempest fighter. But will they converge? Defense News asked the chief executive of the European Defence Agency, Jorge Domecq, for his take on the future of these programs.

It’s quite possible the FCAS program by Spain, Germany and France and the British Tempest program will lead to a situation of two fighters. What’s your assessment?

We’ll have to see, but FCAS is not going to be just one platform. It’s going to be a system of systems. It will be a very complex program; it will take many years. It will be very important for it to be sustainable, that it has the economies of scale that are necessary. And at the same time, as we have these three initial member states signing up, I do not exclude this would bring on other member states as we go long.

What will happen with the Tempest project, I cannot say.

But as the person that oversees FCAS, you would like to see some convergence, right?

Europe would probably have to see convergence toward having a single system of systems, but as I underlined, it’s not an issue of platform. As always, thinking of the competitiveness of the European defense industry, we have to think of program sustainability. Is the next generation of combat aircraft sustainable with several systems of systems in Europe? I have my doubts.

...

https://www.defensenews.com/digital-sho ... -fighters/
 
Ozair
Posts: 4145
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: New FCAS Unveiled by Dassault for France, Germany & Spain

Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:28 pm

Indra will lead Spain’s FCAS effort but the initial funding line is very small, just US$28 million to 2021.

Spain names Indra as national prime-contractor for FCAS

The Spanish government has appointed Indra to lead its efforts on the Future Combat Air System (FCAS) programme with Germany and France.

The decision, which was announced on 6 September, will see Indra co-ordinate the industrial participation of Spain on the project to develop a next-generation air combat system, alongside Airbus in Germany and Dassault in France.

"Indra, in close collaboration with the Ministry of Defense and within the framework of the industrial development plan associated with the programme, will strive to ensure that Spanish industry participates as actively as possible in the latter and facilitate its access to opportunities for knowledge generation, business development, export capacity, the creation of technologies that can also be used in the civil field and high-value employment generation. The FCAS will generate high levels of knowledge and added value for Spanish companies and provide them with opportunities to develop exportable products beyond the programme," the company said.

The announcement that Indra will lead Spain's FCAS effort comes about three months after the country officially joined the project to develop a new fighter combat aircraft as part of a wider system-of-systems. The signing ceremony at the Paris Air Show in June came about four months after a letter of intent (LOI) for Spain's inclusion in the project to develop a New Generation Fighter (NGF) to operate as part of the wider the FCAS (known as Système de Combat Aérien Futur [SCAF] in France) system-of-systems. As previously reported by Jane's , Spain's initial contribution to the project will amount to about EUR25 million (USD28 million) out to 2021.

Jane's first reported in November 2018 that Spain was considering options for the future replacement of its Boeing F/A-18 Hornet fleet in the 2035-plus timeframe.

...

https://www.janes.com/article/90904/spa ... r-for-fcas

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