Ozair
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Re: New FCAS Unveiled by Dassault for France, Germany & Spain

Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:54 pm

So the negotiation and campaign from Dassault on the FCAS really begins. They are obviously keen for this to be carrier capable from the start but as I have suggested in the past I doubt the Germans will be as enthused. Carrier capability will add weight and complexity to the basic airframe and possibly turn off some export buyers.

European FCAS fighter to be optimised for carrier ops

The manned New Generation Fighter (NGF) component of the Future Combat Air System/Système de Combat Aérien Futur (FCAS/SCAF) being jointly developed by Dassault Aviation and Airbus will be optimised for carrier operations from the outset, a source close to the programme has confirmed to Jane's .

The NGF will follow a similar development path to that of the three variants of the Dassault Rafale fighter, the source added.

Engineers will take into account the lessons learnt from the Dassault Étendard, Super Étendard, and Rafale programmes for corrosion resistance and catapult shots/deck landings compatibility. During carrier landings, large loads are inflicted upon the airframe when impacting the flight deck. The paths through which these shocks and impact loads are absorbed will have to be carefully engineered, the source said.

...

https://www.janes.com/article/90221/eur ... arrier-ops
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: New FCAS Unveiled by Dassault for France, Germany & Spain

Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:38 pm

I wonder if with modern design, analysis, and construction methods if you could design two related airframes. Two that are largely similar but differ on the strength and weight of certain components.

Especially if the majority of the value is going to be in things like stealth and avionics. Which will largely be the same between versions.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: New FCAS Unveiled by Dassault for France, Germany & Spain

Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:56 am

Spar wrote:
Alfons wrote:
Ozair wrote:
Alfons, no such code exists. I am very familiar with the classic Hornet and this has never been mentioned by any operator. Nor is there a code for the F-15,16 etc.

As you wish, no problem. :-)

What does "As you wish" mean?

Are you backing off from "I know from first-hand"?


Watch The Princess Bride.
 
Ozair
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Re: New FCAS Unveiled by Dassault for France, Germany & Spain

Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:03 am

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
I wonder if with modern design, analysis, and construction methods if you could design two related airframes. Two that are largely similar but differ on the strength and weight of certain components.

Especially if the majority of the value is going to be in things like stealth and avionics. Which will largely be the same between versions.

It is certainly possible to do that and while the two airframes could share engines and avionics and stealth etc you would likely still require two different programs to test the airframes given the physical differences.

If you consider Rafale it has a slight weight difference between the C and M versions while the F-35 has a significantly greater difference between the A and C versions. The F-35A has clearly been optimised for the CTOL role while the F-35C has been for the CV role. Given the F-35C will probably have a larger production run than all Rafale variants combined you can see why the JSF program was able to justify the optimisation.

I can't see FCAS manufacturing more than 400 airframes combined including exports so I question whether a separate program for an optimised variant would be worth it. As you suggest new technology may make this easier/cheaper but I'm not yet convinced.
 
Ozair
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Re: New FCAS Unveiled by Dassault for France, Germany & Spain

Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:05 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Spar wrote:
Alfons wrote:
As you wish, no problem. :-)

What does "As you wish" mean?

Are you backing off from "I know from first-hand"?


Watch The Princess Bride.

I am not left handed...
 
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Aesma
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Re: New FCAS Unveiled by Dassault for France, Germany & Spain

Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:13 pm

Germany has said that they would be in favor of building an EU aircraft carrier, so I don't see them opposing a carrier capability !
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Ozair
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Re: New FCAS Unveiled by Dassault for France, Germany & Spain

Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:23 pm

Some commentary from the CEO of the European Defency Agency on whether FCAS and Tempest are both sustainable going forward. Other comments include an expectation that there will be a consolidation of the European defence industry over the next 5-10 years.

Perhaps the solution is to have BAE buy Dassault… I wonder where we would be today if Airbus and BAE had merged or if Enders suggestion in 2018 of the fighter divisions of Airbus and BAE merging. I’m not sure now the respective Governments would let it happen.

3 questions with the EU defense chief on Europe’s future fighters

Underway in Europe are two high profile sixth-generation aircraft efforts: the Franco-German-Spanish Future Combat Air System, and Britain’s Tempest fighter. But will they converge? Defense News asked the chief executive of the European Defence Agency, Jorge Domecq, for his take on the future of these programs.

It’s quite possible the FCAS program by Spain, Germany and France and the British Tempest program will lead to a situation of two fighters. What’s your assessment?

We’ll have to see, but FCAS is not going to be just one platform. It’s going to be a system of systems. It will be a very complex program; it will take many years. It will be very important for it to be sustainable, that it has the economies of scale that are necessary. And at the same time, as we have these three initial member states signing up, I do not exclude this would bring on other member states as we go long.

What will happen with the Tempest project, I cannot say.

But as the person that oversees FCAS, you would like to see some convergence, right?

Europe would probably have to see convergence toward having a single system of systems, but as I underlined, it’s not an issue of platform. As always, thinking of the competitiveness of the European defense industry, we have to think of program sustainability. Is the next generation of combat aircraft sustainable with several systems of systems in Europe? I have my doubts.

...

https://www.defensenews.com/digital-sho ... -fighters/
 
Ozair
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Re: New FCAS Unveiled by Dassault for France, Germany & Spain

Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:28 pm

Indra will lead Spain’s FCAS effort but the initial funding line is very small, just US$28 million to 2021.

Spain names Indra as national prime-contractor for FCAS

The Spanish government has appointed Indra to lead its efforts on the Future Combat Air System (FCAS) programme with Germany and France.

The decision, which was announced on 6 September, will see Indra co-ordinate the industrial participation of Spain on the project to develop a next-generation air combat system, alongside Airbus in Germany and Dassault in France.

"Indra, in close collaboration with the Ministry of Defense and within the framework of the industrial development plan associated with the programme, will strive to ensure that Spanish industry participates as actively as possible in the latter and facilitate its access to opportunities for knowledge generation, business development, export capacity, the creation of technologies that can also be used in the civil field and high-value employment generation. The FCAS will generate high levels of knowledge and added value for Spanish companies and provide them with opportunities to develop exportable products beyond the programme," the company said.

The announcement that Indra will lead Spain's FCAS effort comes about three months after the country officially joined the project to develop a new fighter combat aircraft as part of a wider system-of-systems. The signing ceremony at the Paris Air Show in June came about four months after a letter of intent (LOI) for Spain's inclusion in the project to develop a New Generation Fighter (NGF) to operate as part of the wider the FCAS (known as Système de Combat Aérien Futur [SCAF] in France) system-of-systems. As previously reported by Jane's , Spain's initial contribution to the project will amount to about EUR25 million (USD28 million) out to 2021.

Jane's first reported in November 2018 that Spain was considering options for the future replacement of its Boeing F/A-18 Hornet fleet in the 2035-plus timeframe.

...

https://www.janes.com/article/90904/spa ... r-for-fcas
 
Ozair
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Re: New FCAS Unveiled by Dassault for France, Germany & Spain

Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:37 pm

Airbus and Dassault are frustrated by the lack of urgency of their respective governments to push the project forward. It frankly isn’t a surprise, funding was always going to be a struggle and with Germany still on the brink of recession a delay to moving forward with this project, which really is a comparatively insignificant funding line, is to be expected. It doesn’t bode well for the future though, it is generally very hard to recover time on these projects unless Dassault and Airbus are willing to spend their own funds and move the project forward, and I expect this is the first of many discussions on funding and time/schedule issues between the industrial partners and Governments.

Arms firms fret over delays in Franco-German fighter project

France’s Dassault Aviation and Europe’s Airbus have stepped up pressure on France and Germany to agree the next stage of a planned fighter project, warning Europe’s arms industry and long-term security could suffer from delays.

The two companies are the leading industrial partners in a project to build a futuristic swarm of manned and unmanned warplanes, announced by the leaders of France and Germany two years ago and expanded earlier this year to include Spain.

Dassault and Airbus won a 65-million-euro contract in January to develop the concept for the Future Combat Air System (FCAS) but await a new contract to build demonstrators for interlinked fighters, drones and an “air combat cloud” by 2026.

Dassault Aviation Chief Executive Eric Trappier told a conference of policymakers last month that the demonstrator contract should have been launched in September but this was now slipping toward end-year. He called it “indispensable” to avoid any further delays in order to maintain the 2026 deadline.

No reason has been given for the delays.

On Monday evening, Dassault and Airbus amplified those warnings with a joint statement.

“If Europe does not move forward — and move forward quickly — on this program, it will be impossible to maintain the development and production capabilities needed for a sovereign defense industry,” the companies said.

The warplane system is expected to be operational from 2040, with a view to replacing Dassault’s Rafale and the four-nation Eurofighter, in which Airbus represents both Germany and Spain.

...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-euro ... SKBN1WM22B
 
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Re: New FCAS Unveiled by Dassault for France, Germany & Spain

Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:15 pm

Ozair wrote:
Airbus and Dassault are frustrated by the lack of urgency of their respective governments to push the project forward. It frankly isn’t a surprise, funding was always going to be a struggle and with Germany still on the brink of recession a delay to moving forward with this project, which really is a comparatively insignificant funding line, is to be expected. It doesn’t bode well for the future though, it is generally very hard to recover time on these projects unless Dassault and Airbus are willing to spend their own funds and move the project forward, and I expect this is the first of many discussions on funding and time/schedule issues between the industrial partners and Governments.

FlightGlobal just posted a similar article as the one you posted from Reuters with some of the same quotes.

I agree with your pessimistic outlook.

The governments are lukewarm while a project of this magnitude requires the exact opposite, a sense of urgency and a willingness to sacrifice other priorities to make this happen.

I think the fears being voiced by Airbus and Dassault are quite real.

It seems their government is only willing to pony up enough funds to say they're "doing something" but not enough to get anything done.
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Ozair
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Re: New FCAS Unveiled by Dassault for France, Germany & Spain

Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:17 pm

The Airbus head for FCAS has reported they are progressing on the Joint Concept Study and are keen to start the demonstrator phase in Jan 2020.

FCAS partners report good concept-study progress, expect demonstrator phase to begin shortly

France, Germany, and Spain are progressing well with the Joint Concept Study (JCS) for the Future Combat Air System (FCAS)/Système de Combat Aérien Futur (SCAF) programme, and are on track to launch the demonstrator phase in the coming weeks.

Speaking on the opening day of the Airbus Defence and Space (DS) Trade Media Briefing 2019 at the company's Donauworth facility near Munich, Bruno Fichefeux, the head of the FCAS programme for Airbus DS, said that the three partners are "well on the way" with the JCS that was began in January 2019, and that the demonstrator phase is on course to begin in early 2020.

"We are now well on the way with the Joint Concept Study in what is a new chapter for European air defence. Industry submitted its offers for the first phase of the Demonstrator Phase at the Paris Air Show [in June], and this will begin in January 2020," Fichefeux said, adding that the first phase of the demonstrator phase will cover the "first pillar" New Generation Fighter (NGF) aircraft, Remote Carrier (RC) unmanned wingmen and the networked Air Combat Cloud (ACC).

Fichefeux's comments were provided as part of a wider update on the FCAS programme that Airbus DS, Dassault, and lately Indra are developing on behalf of the German, French, and Spanish governments respectively.

"FCAS is all about answering the future threat environment," Fichefeux said on 4 November, adding, "The air-defence environment will be much higher in the future than it is today, and one 'super fighter' alone cannot answer that future threat."

As noted by Fichefeux, rather than focusing on developing a 'super fighter', the answer instead is to develop a system of systems with the NGF aircraft and supporting RC unmanned loyal-wingmen at its core.

...

https://www.janes.com/article/92338/fca ... in-shortly
 
Ozair
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Re: New FCAS Unveiled by Dassault for France, Germany & Spain

Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:20 pm

It appears that for now the export issue of FCAS, and the new tank being co-developed, has been sorted and Germany will not have the opportunity to oppose the export of either system although I’m not sure how that will politically stand up when a decision actually has to be made.

Can a new Franco-German export agreement clear the air for Europe’s future fighter?

French and German officials celebrated the signing of a new defense export agreement last month as a watershed moment, but political and industrial mistrust remains a wild card for the Future Combat Air System program — an envisioned sixth-generation fighter jet.

The export pact, which entered into force in late October with the formal exchange of government notes, is meant to streamline a contentious process that has clouded bilateral defense cooperation for some time. Namely, the agreement dictates that joint government programs, like FCAS fighter jet, be free from interference by partner nations when it comes to eventual exports.

The clause is mainly aimed at Germany, where politicians and lawmakers tend to scrutinize weapons deliveries to countries with known or suspected human rights abuses more heavily than their French colleagues.

...

Once the money begins to flow for an additional set of contracts early next year, there is a litany of questions yet to be sorted out. The fate of intellectual property rights, for example, remains unsorted, according to the analyst. In addition, as of late October, there was no agreement on Spain’s industrial work share. Spain is something of a junior partner in the FCAS project, though officials in Madrid have said they expect equal treatment as a full member of the trinational project team.

The Spanish government in the summer designated defense electronics company Indra as the national lead for the fighter program. The move angered Airbus, where officials were hoping to give their Spanish subsidiary a role that would satisfy Madrid’s demands for industrial participation.

Another potential point of contention has to do with military requirements for the future fighter. Perhaps the most prominent issue is that French officials want a carrier-capable jet, which Germany does not need.

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/11 ... e-fighter/

Interesting as well that Spanish workshare still isn’t sorted, nor their overall presence on the program given they want full partner status while Germany/France view then as a junior partner. Also some confirmation that Germany isn’t keen on a design that includes a carrier capable aircraft. Clearly that is going to take additional development and testing funding and I can see why Germany isn’t interested in funding that, especially as there is essentially no export market for that type of airframe.
 
art
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Re: New FCAS Unveiled by Dassault for France, Germany & Spain

Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:03 pm

Ozair wrote:
Once the money begins to flow for an additional set of contracts early next year, there is a litany of questions yet to be sorted out. The fate of intellectual property rights, for example, remains unsorted, according to the analyst. In addition, as of late October, there was no agreement on Spain’s industrial work share. Spain is something of a junior partner in the FCAS project, though officials in Madrid have said they expect equal treatment as a full member of the trinational project team.

The Spanish government in the summer designated defense electronics company Indra as the national lead for the fighter program. The move angered Airbus, where officials were hoping to give their Spanish subsidiary a role that would satisfy Madrid’s demands for industrial participation.

Another potential point of contention has to do with military requirements for the future fighter. Perhaps the most prominent issue is that French officials want a carrier-capable jet, which Germany does not need.

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/11 ... e-fighter/

Interesting as well that Spanish workshare still isn’t sorted, nor their overall presence on the program given they want full partner status while Germany/France view then as a junior partner. Also some confirmation that Germany isn’t keen on a design that includes a carrier capable aircraft. Clearly that is going to take additional development and testing funding and I can see why Germany isn’t interested in funding that, especially as there is essentially no export market for that type of airframe.


Any absolute impediment to estimating the extra cost of developing a carrier version and handing France the bill, Dassault doing all the work? If there were any sales of a carrier version to any other country, France could recover some of the development cost. India night be in the market for aircraft for 2 or 3 carriers 20 years or so from now.

Regarding Spain, why should Spain not be a junior partner? I suppose Spain has leverage, though, in that t if France and Germany offer Spain too little the Tempest partners might welcome the additional funding Spain could bring to the project.
 
mxaxai
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Re: New FCAS Unveiled by Dassault for France, Germany & Spain

Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:31 pm

A recent study on people's opinions revealed that a majority of 52% of Germans are in favor of twice the defence spending, if it means greater independence from US politics.
Unrelated to defence, 60 % of Germans consider France the most (or second-most) important partner country, ahead of the USA (42%), China (15%), Russia (12%) and the UK (7%).

This might give FCAS a boost. Politicians may be less hesitant to increase funding if it is inline with public opinion.

https://www.koerber-stiftung.de/pressem ... gkeit-1926
 
Ozair
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Re: New FCAS Unveiled by Dassault for France, Germany & Spain

Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:14 pm

art wrote:

Any absolute impediment to estimating the extra cost of developing a carrier version and handing France the bill, Dassault doing all the work? If there were any sales of a carrier version to any other country, France could recover some of the development cost. India night be in the market for aircraft for 2 or 3 carriers 20 years or so from now.

The problem with that is how the design impacts the overall program. Dassault won’t want to pay for a whole new airframe for the maritime role and if we went by Keeje’s rantings on FCAS then it has to be a big twin engine long range airframe with two seats. Those are characteristics generally not suited to carrier aviation, especially when putting French short length carriers into consideration.

art wrote:
Regarding Spain, why should Spain not be a junior partner? I suppose Spain has leverage, though, in that t if France and Germany offer Spain too little the Tempest partners might welcome the additional funding Spain could bring to the project.

Spain wants workshare for domestic employment as well as highly skilled jobs. I doubt Spain brings a significant amount of funding to the deal but Spain clearly see their position as an equal partner. Why shouldn’t they be a level partner? France has already shopped around FCAS participation with other nations as the carrot to acquire Rafale so clearly having partners isn’t an issue.

mxaxai wrote:
A recent study on people's opinions revealed that a majority of 52% of Germans are in favor of twice the defence spending, if it means greater independence from US politics.
Unrelated to defence, 60 % of Germans consider France the most (or second-most) important partner country, ahead of the USA (42%), China (15%), Russia (12%) and the UK (7%).

This might give FCAS a boost. Politicians may be less hesitant to increase funding if it is inline with public opinion.

https://www.koerber-stiftung.de/pressem ... gkeit-1926

I don’t put a lot of stock in those kinds of surveys. If you had conducted the same survey in 2009 then the result would have been very different because Obama was President, a figure generally liked by Germans even with his waning popularity in his second term. Come the end of 2020 and a Democrat potentially wins the Presidency then the pendulum will likely swing around again. That is why looking at this from a standpoint of US politics is pointless. The relationship between the two countries has ebbed and flowed across the last 60 years but the underlying security and military relationship has stayed, and will remain, very secure.
 
mxaxai
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Re: New FCAS Unveiled by Dassault for France, Germany & Spain

Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:54 pm

Ozair wrote:
I don’t put a lot of stock in those kinds of surveys. If you had conducted the same survey in 2009 then the result would have been very different because Obama was President, a figure generally liked by Germans even with his waning popularity in his second term. Come the end of 2020 and a Democrat potentially wins the Presidency then the pendulum will likely swing around again. That is why looking at this from a standpoint of US politics is pointless. The relationship between the two countries has ebbed and flowed across the last 60 years but the underlying security and military relationship has stayed, and will remain, very secure.

It is a respectable survey, not your typical The-Onion-style survey. I agree that the opinion heavily depends on who happens to be president. But right now, there is strong opposition against further alignment with the US. That may change as soon as next year, but the one thing politicians care most about is getting reelected at the next election. So as long as this anti-american resentment continues (and I consider Trumps reelection quite likely), only a fool of a politician would publicly advertise in favor of US aircraft.

I think an F-35 acquisition during Obama's presidency would have been received relatively amicable.
 
Ozair
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Re: New FCAS Unveiled by Dassault for France, Germany & Spain

Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:26 pm

mxaxai wrote:
It is a respectable survey, not your typical The-Onion-style survey. I agree that the opinion heavily depends on who happens to be president. But right now, there is strong opposition against further alignment with the US. That may change as soon as next year, but the one thing politicians care most about is getting reelected at the next election. So as long as this anti-american resentment continues (and I consider Trumps reelection quite likely), only a fool of a politician would publicly advertise in favor of US aircraft.

Sorry, I should be clear, I don’t doubt the credibility of the survey, just the timeliness of it or its impact on the decision. Industrial lobbying from Airbus and Dassualt will likely have far greater sway on any decision than what the German public want or think.

mxaxai wrote:
I think an F-35 acquisition during Obama's presidency would have been received relatively amicable.

Potentially but that would have been before FCAS was envisioned. The big issue preventing a German F-35 is FCAS and Airbus/Dassault resistance to it, not German public opinion. For example...


Hoke said if Germany decided to buy the F-35 to replace its Tornados, that would mean the FCAS would no longer be feasible.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germ ... SKBN1HW14U

“As soon as Germany becomes an F-35 member nation, cooperation on all combat aircraft issues with France will die,” Hoke said in an interview with Welt Am Sonntag which can be found here.
The local news site says that the Bundeswehr is looking for a successor model for the Tornado fighter-bomber. One candidate is the F-35 but “that does not suit the CEO of the Airbus armaments division”.
Airbus manager Hoke sees a historic opportunity in the competition with France on the fighter jet. “Europe needs to define its sovereignty more clearly, and to clearly state that we need to maintain independence in defence and space” he said.


https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/airbus- ... to-france/

Similar comments have been made by Trappier.
 
art
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Re: New FCAS Unveiled by Dassault for France, Germany & Spain

Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:12 am

Ozair wrote:
art wrote:
Regarding Spain, why should Spain not be a junior partner? I suppose Spain has leverage, though, in that t if France and Germany offer Spain too little the Tempest partners might welcome the additional funding Spain could bring to the project.

Spain wants workshare for domestic employment as well as highly skilled jobs. I doubt Spain brings a significant amount of funding to the deal but Spain clearly see their position as an equal partner. Why shouldn’t they be a level partner? France has already shopped around FCAS participation with other nations as the carrot to acquire Rafale so clearly having partners isn’t an issue.


I don't see (perhaps my eyesight is bad) that Spain has a lot to add to the Franco-German project. Orders, yes, but in smaller numbers than the other 2. On the design and engineering fronts, can Spain plug a gap in the capabilities of the other 2 or simply duplicate what they already have? In terms of funding, I guess Spain would be the smallest contributor. In what way would Spain deserve to be seen as an equal partner?

I don't follow your Rafale comment. What other countries might be inclined to order Rafale in exchange for FCAS participation?
 
Ozair
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Re: New FCAS Unveiled by Dassault for France, Germany & Spain

Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:36 am

art wrote:
I don't see (perhaps my eyesight is bad) that Spain has a lot to add to the Franco-German project. Orders, yes, but in smaller numbers than the other 2. On the design and engineering fronts, can Spain plug a gap in the capabilities of the other 2 or simply duplicate what they already have? In terms of funding, I guess Spain would be the smallest contributor. In what way would Spain deserve to be seen as an equal partner?

Spain sees themselves as equals
Madrid says that the country is joining the initiative on "equal terms with France and Germany" and that the project will give Spain "leadership visibility" within European security and defence policies.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... me-455828/

I agree though, what they actually offer the program isn’t great although Indra, Spain’s industrial lead for FCAS, is trying to claim EW leadership.

Spain’s Indra claims lead in EU electronic-warfare push for future aircraft

Spanish military-electronics specialist Indra has claimed the lead in a program meant to equip future European military aircraft with new electronic-warfare capabilities, according to a company announcement.
The project, named Airborne Electronic Attack, falls under the European Union’s latest batch of so-called PESCO initiatives, which are meant to foster collaboration among member nations in key military areas. Besides Spain as the lead nation, Indra said France and Sweden also are participating, as will Germany and Italy, though those countries were still absent from a roster published online by the European Defense Agency.

According to industry sources, the agency could hand out a contract to begin work on the project in the first quarter of 2020. The partner countries are expected to position their respective go-to suppliers to jockey for position, namely Thales, Saab, Hensoldt and Leonardo.

The EU’s airborne electronic-attack project could take on some of the supporting work for a manned fighter under the the Future Combat Air System program, a next-generation aerial weapon developed by France, Germany and Spain. That future aircraft will need sophisticated jamming capabilities, and the PESCO format could offer Indra an avenue into the major program’s work share at a time when the details of Spain’s participation have yet to be fully sorted out.

Indra is the Spanish national industry lead for FCAS, while Airbus and Dassault play those roles for Germany and France, respectively. Spain’s defense companies expect one-third of the business flowing from the program, an Indra spokesman told Defense News.


https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... -aircraft/

The last sentence in bold being most illustrative of where Spain sees their position.

art wrote:
I don't follow your Rafale comment. What other countries might be inclined to order Rafale in exchange for FCAS participation?

France’s play for the Belgium fighter contract included the inducement of work and participation on FCAS aside from the other threats Dassault made about loss of future industrial work in the country.

While Dassault did not openly respond to the call for tenders, it offered for Belgium to collaborate on the development of the F4 standard of its Rafale, and a participation in the Franco-German Future Combat Air System (FCAS) program.

https://www.aerotime.aero/clement.charp ... ean-offers
 
Ozair
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Re: New FCAS Unveiled by Dassault for France, Germany & Spain

Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:49 pm

Safran and MTU have decided on the division of the engine development work for the FCAS. This is another nail in the coffin for the UK joining the program given there would be a strong push for any UK aircraft to have an RR engine or have RR be heavily involved in the engine development and build program.

Safran, MTU agree framework for future fighter engine

Safran and MTU have agreed details on the development of a next-generation aircraft engine to power the New Generation Fighter (NGF) for France, Germany and Spain.

The agreement, announced on 3 December, sees Safran Aircraft Engines of France and MTU Aero Engines of Germany settle the details of the engine development programme for the NGF component of the wider Future Combat Air System (FCAS)/ Système de Combat Aérien Futur (SCAF). This builds on the letter of intent (LOI) signed between the two companies in February 2019, which specified that Safran would take the lead in engine design and integration, with MTU leading engine services.

“In the framework of the contractual scheme defined by France and Germany, Safran Aircraft Engines will be the prime contractor and MTU Aero Engines the main partner for the first phase of Research and Technology (Phase 1A),” the companies said, adding that the two partners had also agreed on the foundation of a 50/50 joint venture that will be incorporated by the end of 2021 to manage the development, production, and the after-sales support activities of the new engine to power the NGF.

Known as both the Next European Fighter Engine (NEFE) and the New European Engine (NEE), the NGF powerplant is one of a number of core FCAS/SCAF elements to be covered in the first demonstration phase that is set to be launched in January 2020. The NEFE/NEE powerplant is included in the NGF itself, with the two other core elements comprising the Remote Carrier (RC) loyal wingmen and the Air Combat Cloud (ACC). This first phase should see an NGF demonstrator flying in concert with an RC (the combination of which is known as the Next-Generation Weapon System [NGWS]) while networked together in the ACC by the end of 2026.

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https://www.janes.com/article/92964/saf ... ter-engine

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