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flyingturtle
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Syrian surface-air missile lands in Cyprus

Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:30 pm

After several hundred kilometers of flight, a missile purported to be a Syrian S-200 disintegrated before falling on the ground near Nikosia.

These things just fly on and on and on, even when they have no chance of re-acquiring the target? Could be an interesting scenario, when somebody would decide to camouflage a surface-surface missile as a stray S-200/300/400 one.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-48824500
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
Armadillo1
Posts: 244
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Re: Syrian surface-air missile lands in Cyprus

Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:41 am

SAM already have S-to-S mode. but hardly to imagine how to guide missile at this range.
 
VSMUT
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Syrian surface-air missile lands in Cyprus

Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:06 am

S-200 is an ultra-long range and high speed missile. It was a serious threat to US SR-71s. Malta had to be careful when dealing with Muammar Gaddafi, because Libyan S-200s could cover Malta.

flyingturtle wrote:
These things just fly on and on and on, even when they have no chance of re-acquiring the target? Could be an interesting scenario, when somebody would decide to camouflage a surface-surface missile as a stray S-200/300/400 one.


Already happened. Siberia Airlines 1812, a Tu-154M, was shot down by a stray Ukrainian S-200 in October 2001 with 78 fatalities. The target drone had been destroyed by an S-300 missile fired just prior, so the S-200 flew on until it acquired a target.
 
Ozair
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Re: Syrian surface-air missile lands in Cyprus

Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:19 pm

flyingturtle wrote:
After several hundred kilometers of flight, a missile purported to be a Syrian S-200 disintegrated before falling on the ground near Nikosia.

These things just fly on and on and on, even when they have no chance of re-acquiring the target? Could be an interesting scenario, when somebody would decide to camouflage a surface-surface missile as a stray S-200/300/400 one.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-48824500

For most SAMs the missile rocket motor burns out reasonably soon after launch and the missile travels for most of its flight essentially gliding. Often the missile will self destruct when the internal batteries reach a specific level of discharge.

VSMUT wrote:
Already happened. Siberia Airlines 1812, a Tu-154M, was shot down by a stray Ukrainian S-200 in October 2001 with 78 fatalities. The target drone had been destroyed by an S-300 missile fired just prior, so the S-200 flew on until it acquired a target.


Nothing against you but I find the explanation of flight 1812 very unbelievable. The S-200 uses semi active radar homing and requires FMCW guidance for the seeker head. It doesn't reacquire a new target without that FMCW signal, especially after allegedly flying an additional 160 kms, and I actually doubt that it has the ability to reacquire at all, as per the following link. https://www.ausairpower.net/APA-S-200VE-Vega.html
 
VSMUT
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Re: Syrian surface-air missile lands in Cyprus

Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:31 am

Ozair wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
Already happened. Siberia Airlines 1812, a Tu-154M, was shot down by a stray Ukrainian S-200 in October 2001 with 78 fatalities. The target drone had been destroyed by an S-300 missile fired just prior, so the S-200 flew on until it acquired a target.


Nothing against you but I find the explanation of flight 1812 very unbelievable. The S-200 uses semi active radar homing and requires FMCW guidance for the seeker head. It doesn't reacquire a new target without that FMCW signal, especially after allegedly flying an additional 160 kms, and I actually doubt that it has the ability to reacquire at all, as per the following link. https://www.ausairpower.net/APA-S-200VE-Vega.html


Sure, it was probably a DVD submarine that shot it down...

You are going more and more off your rocker. Now you are denying the conclusion reached by Russia, Ukraine, independent US investigators and compensations paid out by Ukraine. You got any alternative theories on MH370 too?
 
Ozair
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Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: Syrian surface-air missile lands in Cyprus

Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:43 am

VSMUT wrote:
Ozair wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
Already happened. Siberia Airlines 1812, a Tu-154M, was shot down by a stray Ukrainian S-200 in October 2001 with 78 fatalities. The target drone had been destroyed by an S-300 missile fired just prior, so the S-200 flew on until it acquired a target.


Nothing against you but I find the explanation of flight 1812 very unbelievable. The S-200 uses semi active radar homing and requires FMCW guidance for the seeker head. It doesn't reacquire a new target without that FMCW signal, especially after allegedly flying an additional 160 kms, and I actually doubt that it has the ability to reacquire at all, as per the following link. https://www.ausairpower.net/APA-S-200VE-Vega.html


Sure, it was probably a DVD submarine that shot it down...

You are going more and more off your rocker. Now you are denying the conclusion reached by Russia, Ukraine, independent US investigators and compensations paid out by Ukraine. You got any alternative theories on MH370 too?

Relax mate, all I am saying is the data doesn't match the weapon system claimed. Per the link I provided above, which uses translated Soviet operations manuals, the system cannot reacquire and is LOBL. Hence the skepticism.
 
hmmwv
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Re: Syrian surface-air missile lands in Cyprus

Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:16 pm

Maybe it was an operator error and the FCR locked onto the airliner instead of the target drone from the get go?
 
tu204
Posts: 1841
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:36 am

Re: Syrian surface-air missile lands in Cyprus

Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:20 pm

Ozair wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
Ozair wrote:

Nothing against you but I find the explanation of flight 1812 very unbelievable. The S-200 uses semi active radar homing and requires FMCW guidance for the seeker head. It doesn't reacquire a new target without that FMCW signal, especially after allegedly flying an additional 160 kms, and I actually doubt that it has the ability to reacquire at all, as per the following link. https://www.ausairpower.net/APA-S-200VE-Vega.html


Sure, it was probably a DVD submarine that shot it down...

You are going more and more off your rocker. Now you are denying the conclusion reached by Russia, Ukraine, independent US investigators and compensations paid out by Ukraine. You got any alternative theories on MH370 too?

Relax mate, all I am saying is the data doesn't match the weapon system claimed. Per the link I provided above, which uses translated Soviet operations manuals, the system cannot reacquire and is LOBL. Hence the skepticism.


Could it be possible that the targeting radar itself locked on to the "next target" (T154) after the drone was destroyed due to glitch or incompetence, and then the semi-active radar started homing in on it?

I know the missile itself is semi active and can't really acquire anything. But what stops a dumbass operator on the ground from pointing his radar somewhere else?
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
Armadillo1
Posts: 244
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:14 pm

Re: Syrian surface-air missile lands in Cyprus

Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:31 pm

As i remember operator aimed airliner first because rangfinding on s-200 take some time, and he dont want to be late to hit target, and tu-154 just flew at same direction and elevation angle but 100+ km away
 
Ozair
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Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: Syrian surface-air missile lands in Cyprus

Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:06 am

Armadillo1 wrote:
As i remember operator aimed airliner first because rangfinding on s-200 take some time, and he dont want to be late to hit target, and tu-154 just flew at same direction and elevation angle but 100+ km away


tu204 wrote:

Could it be possible that the targeting radar itself locked on to the "next target" (T154) after the drone was destroyed due to glitch or incompetence, and then the semi-active radar started homing in on it?

I know the missile itself is semi active and can't really acquire anything. But what stops a dumbass operator on the ground from pointing his radar somewhere else?


This is a far more likely scenario than the missile reacquiring. While you would hope the operator had at least basic enough proficiency to operate the system (reading the technical doc he would select essentially a close or distant target) it makes sense he could make that type of mistake.
 
tu204
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Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:36 am

Re: Syrian surface-air missile lands in Cyprus

Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:03 pm

Armadillo1 wrote:
As i remember operator aimed airliner first because rangfinding on s-200 take some time, and he dont want to be late to hit target, and tu-154 just flew at same direction and elevation angle but 100+ km away


Wait, you are saying the operator purposely targeted the Tupolev?
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
 
Ozair
Posts: 3897
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: Syrian surface-air missile lands in Cyprus

Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:24 am

Armadillo1 wrote:
https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Катастрофа_Ту-154_над_Чёрным_морем

Thanks for posting, an interesting read and clarifies some of the details.
 
Ozair
Posts: 3897
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: Syrian surface-air missile lands in Cyprus

Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:24 am

double post.
 
hmmwv
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:44 am

Re: Syrian surface-air missile lands in Cyprus

Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:54 am

Any good sources detailing this incident in English?

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