phugoid1982
Topic Author
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:02 am

Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:12 pm

Although the Chinese have previously claimed that the J-20 is off limits for export, is there any possibility a few might be surreptitiously sent to North Korea to stir the geopolitical pot?
 
User avatar
Slug71
Posts: 1385
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:08 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:51 pm

Highly doubt that.
 
Ozair
Posts: 4145
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:18 am

Slug71 wrote:
Highly doubt that.

Agree as well, I doubt it would impact the geopolitical situation much. A few aircraft doesn't change the strategic balance in their favour and would likely be an expensive use of scant NK resources.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 9775
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:33 am

Does the J-31 have the same restrictions? Seems like a cheaper aircraft to me.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
User avatar
Slug71
Posts: 1385
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:08 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:54 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Does the J-31 have the same restrictions? Seems like a cheaper aircraft to me.


It shouldn't. The J-31 was initially intended for export. I dont see why that would change. The J-31 actually has export potential, but not sure if that would include NK. At least not yet.
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 13103
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:32 am

I guess the focus will be on getting a few hundred in service and integration stand off ASM's, not exports.

Image
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
hmmwv
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:44 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:49 am

China wouldn't give heavily used Su-27SKs to NK, let along the best aircraft in PLAAF inventory. The North Koreans won't be stupid enough to ask, they know they can't man and maintain a fifth gen stealth fighter. The J-31 (or more accurately the FC-31) is indeed available for export but so far we haven't seen anyone express interest, not even the Pakistanis. I see the only future of the program is a heavily revised version 3.0 for PLAN's carrier fighter program.

To keesje, I don't understand why integrating ASMs is a priority, the J-20 is strictly an air superiority fighter, not a multirole aircraft.
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 13103
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:00 pm

hmmwv wrote:
China wouldn't give heavily used Su-27SKs to NK, let along the best aircraft in PLAAF inventory. The North Koreans won't be stupid enough to ask, they know they can't man and maintain a fifth gen stealth fighter. The J-31 (or more accurately the FC-31) is indeed available for export but so far we haven't seen anyone express interest, not even the Pakistanis. I see the only future of the program is a heavily revised version 3.0 for PLAN's carrier fighter program.

To keesje, I don't understand why integrating ASMs is a priority, the J-20 is strictly an air superiority fighter, not a multirole aircraft.


When I first this aircraft, I saw a strike aircraft. It's multi role, but I still expect "surprises" in further development. And I'm not the only one, it would better fit Chinese strategic requirements.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
User avatar
TWA772LR
Posts: 6799
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:04 am

China tolerates North Korea. The US hates North Korea. And the US and China tolerate each other with relations dipping that much lower every month. Any country that gives any kind of military hardware will be met with huge sanctions from the US, China is no exception.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 13103
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:06 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
China tolerates North Korea. The US hates North Korea. And the US and China tolerate each other with relations dipping that much lower every month. Any country that gives any kind of military hardware will be met with huge sanctions from the US, China is no exception.


From the Chinese perspective the US is providing S Korea with the latest weapons, so a level playing seems justified. Btw the US own China a lot of money & China wants to order hundreds of aircraft at Boeing. Under normal conditions. Or at Airbus.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
User avatar
TWA772LR
Posts: 6799
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:40 am

keesje wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
China tolerates North Korea. The US hates North Korea. And the US and China tolerate each other with relations dipping that much lower every month. Any country that gives any kind of military hardware will be met with huge sanctions from the US, China is no exception.


From the Chinese perspective the US is providing S Korea with the latest weapons, so a level playing seems justified. Btw the US own China a lot of money & China wants to order hundreds of aircraft at Boeing. Under normal conditions. Or at Airbus.

At the risk of derailing the thread, if China calls that debt, it will sink their economy in the process because they will come down with us. Yeah we owe the Chinese a a few pretty pennies, but going back to the last recession China was hit harder than the US because American consumers weren't buying consumer products, the overwhelming majority of which come from China.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
AtomicGarden
Posts: 372
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:57 pm

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:52 am

keesje wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
China tolerates North Korea. The US hates North Korea. And the US and China tolerate each other with relations dipping that much lower every month. Any country that gives any kind of military hardware will be met with huge sanctions from the US, China is no exception.


From the Chinese perspective the US is providing S Korea with the latest weapons, so a level playing seems justified. Btw the US own China a lot of money & China wants to order hundreds of aircraft at Boeing. Under normal conditions. Or at Airbus.


I think US-Taiwan relations would be more equal to China-NK. South Korea is a sovereign state unlikely to start a war. The Chineses would never dare to touch ROK.
You killed a black astronaut, Cyril! That's like killing a unicorn!
 
hmmwv
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:44 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:05 am

I'm not sure why this matter was brought up, I guess a lot of people have the wrong impression of China's relationship with North Korea, officially they are friends but until very recently it can only be described as frosty. China doesn't have much of a military relationship with North Korea neither, no joint exercises, weapons sales, naval port calls, or high level visits. Heck China's military relationship with India is arguably stronger than with North Korea. So no I don't think China will be selling anything to North Korea, let along stealth fighters.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 2890
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:56 pm

hmmwv wrote:
To keesje, I don't understand why integrating ASMs is a priority, the J-20 is strictly an air superiority fighter, not a multirole aircraft.


To date, not a single chinese fighter has been fielded that has not been capable of some sort of ground attack. Very bold to state the J-20 will break that pattern.
 
hmmwv
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:44 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:25 pm

VSMUT wrote:
To date, not a single chinese fighter has been fielded that has not been capable of some sort of ground attack. Very bold to state the J-20 will break that pattern.


Normally when we talk about multirole we refer to proper guided ground strike capabilities, not a token capability such as with guns or unguided rocket pods. Otherwise we'd call the A-10 multirole because it can carry Sidewinders. Actually so far we haven't even seen J-20 with a token ground attach capability, no guns, no where to mount rocket pods, no racks inside the weapon bay for iron bombs, etc.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 2890
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:07 pm

hmmwv wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
To date, not a single chinese fighter has been fielded that has not been capable of some sort of ground attack. Very bold to state the J-20 will break that pattern.


Normally when we talk about multirole we refer to proper guided ground strike capabilities, not a token capability such as with guns or unguided rocket pods. Otherwise we'd call the A-10 multirole because it can carry Sidewinders. Actually so far we haven't even seen J-20 with a token ground attach capability, no guns, no where to mount rocket pods, no racks inside the weapon bay for iron bombs, etc.


1. The J-20 has barely entered service.

2. What type are you referring to that has only a token A2G capability? Even the J-8 has been used in the SEAD role armed with ARMs. There is an electronic warfare variant. It can also carry an assortment of precision guided bombs, same goes for the J-7. J-10 and various J-11 variants speak for themselves. The last Chinese fighter to only feature unguided rockets, dumb bombs and guns is something like the J-6, and that is clearly a type from an era where that was considered multi-role.
 
estorilm
Posts: 682
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:07 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:31 pm

VSMUT wrote:
hmmwv wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
To date, not a single chinese fighter has been fielded that has not been capable of some sort of ground attack. Very bold to state the J-20 will break that pattern.


Normally when we talk about multirole we refer to proper guided ground strike capabilities, not a token capability such as with guns or unguided rocket pods. Otherwise we'd call the A-10 multirole because it can carry Sidewinders. Actually so far we haven't even seen J-20 with a token ground attach capability, no guns, no where to mount rocket pods, no racks inside the weapon bay for iron bombs, etc.


1. The J-20 has barely entered service.

2. What type are you referring to that has only a token A2G capability? Even the J-8 has been used in the SEAD role armed with ARMs. There is an electronic warfare variant. It can also carry an assortment of precision guided bombs, same goes for the J-7. J-10 and various J-11 variants speak for themselves. The last Chinese fighter to only feature unguided rockets, dumb bombs and guns is something like the J-6, and that is clearly a type from an era where that was considered multi-role.


Presumably it would still have been integrated into the aircraft from the start, during testing, etc.

I'm kinda inclined to agree with hmmwv here, in that guided weapons would have been tested with the avionics packages / capabilities installed into the aircraft from the start. It does make you question what (if any) legitimate A2G capabilities it has.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 2890
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:17 pm

estorilm wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
hmmwv wrote:

Normally when we talk about multirole we refer to proper guided ground strike capabilities, not a token capability such as with guns or unguided rocket pods. Otherwise we'd call the A-10 multirole because it can carry Sidewinders. Actually so far we haven't even seen J-20 with a token ground attach capability, no guns, no where to mount rocket pods, no racks inside the weapon bay for iron bombs, etc.


1. The J-20 has barely entered service.

2. What type are you referring to that has only a token A2G capability? Even the J-8 has been used in the SEAD role armed with ARMs. There is an electronic warfare variant. It can also carry an assortment of precision guided bombs, same goes for the J-7. J-10 and various J-11 variants speak for themselves. The last Chinese fighter to only feature unguided rockets, dumb bombs and guns is something like the J-6, and that is clearly a type from an era where that was considered multi-role.


Presumably it would still have been integrated into the aircraft from the start, during testing, etc.

I'm kinda inclined to agree with hmmwv here, in that guided weapons would have been tested with the avionics packages / capabilities installed into the aircraft from the start. It does make you question what (if any) legitimate A2G capabilities it has.


And you know it hasn't been developed with that from the start? Let's face it, it has only been spotted 2 or 3 times with any weapons at all. It is no secret that it only gets spotted when the PLAAF wants it to be.

Also of note, it has a downward facing EO device. And they have over 30 of them assigned to a testing squadron.

And again, not a single chinese fighter has ever been fielded that wasn't a multirole aircraft.
 
estorilm
Posts: 682
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:07 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:54 pm

VSMUT wrote:
estorilm wrote:
VSMUT wrote:

1. The J-20 has barely entered service.

2. What type are you referring to that has only a token A2G capability? Even the J-8 has been used in the SEAD role armed with ARMs. There is an electronic warfare variant. It can also carry an assortment of precision guided bombs, same goes for the J-7. J-10 and various J-11 variants speak for themselves. The last Chinese fighter to only feature unguided rockets, dumb bombs and guns is something like the J-6, and that is clearly a type from an era where that was considered multi-role.


Presumably it would still have been integrated into the aircraft from the start, during testing, etc.

I'm kinda inclined to agree with hmmwv here, in that guided weapons would have been tested with the avionics packages / capabilities installed into the aircraft from the start. It does make you question what (if any) legitimate A2G capabilities it has.


And you know it hasn't been developed with that from the start? Let's face it, it has only been spotted 2 or 3 times with any weapons at all. It is no secret that it only gets spotted when the PLAAF wants it to be.

Also of note, it has a downward facing EO device. And they have over 30 of them assigned to a testing squadron.

And again, not a single chinese fighter has ever been fielded that wasn't a multirole aircraft.

That last part is pure confirmation bias. Not a single Chinese fighter has ever been fielded that wasn't unstealthy also. Not a single Chinese fighter has ever been fielded that didn't have canards too.

Just coincidence - take it with a grain of salt, every weapons platform is its own entity as far as I'm concerned. Sure A2G capabilities may have been included on previous aircraft, but that's DRAMATICALLY different on a 3rd/4th gen versus 5th when considering engine ducts, internal fuel capacity, internal bay restraints, shapes for RCS, etc.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 2890
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:30 pm

estorilm wrote:
Not a single Chinese fighter has ever been fielded that didn't have canards too.


J-6, J-7, J-8, J-11, J-16, JF-17. If we expand to ground attack types and high performance armed trainers, the Q-5, JH-7, JL-9 and JL-10.

Your arguments remain far from convincing.
 
JayinKitsap
Posts: 1429
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:24 am

Anyone have any information about the J-20 performance. I saw in Wiki a 6,000 km range, which is long, but that would affect performance I suspect.
 
Ozair
Posts: 4145
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:52 am

JayinKitsap wrote:
Anyone have any information about the J-20 performance. I saw in Wiki a 6,000 km range, which is long, but that would affect performance I suspect.

I’m not aware of any verified/authoritative sources for the J-20’s range. The Wiki figures come from a Bill Sweetman article published in 2014 which means it is likely close to useless.

Realistically the aircraft is large and probably heavy using engines that are not optimised/underpowered for the airframe. It probably has a very good internal fuel load and has been reported to have an A2A refuelling probe. How that translates to a range, either ferry or combat, then comes down to profiles, weight and payload. If I was taking a wild guess I would expect it to be capable of a combat radius with internal A2A missiles around the plus or minus 700nm mark. I don’t think anyone has seen the J-20 fly with wing mounted pylons yet but you would expect fuel carriage could be carried externally, so a ferry range could be quite large. I don’t expect it can supercruise in its current configuration/engine arrangement but that will likely change if/when it gets a domestic engine with enough thrust.

End result is until we get some figures that can be trusted pretty much everything written about the aircraft, including my comments above, is guesswork.
 
Ozair
Posts: 4145
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:42 am

Ozair wrote:
I don’t think anyone has seen the J-20 fly with wing mounted pylons yet but you would expect fuel carriage could be carried externally, so a ferry range could be quite large.


Found an image of the J-20 with external tanks from a couple of years ago, decent sized as well.

Image

Another with apparently the WS-15 installed in one engine bay.

Image
 
estorilm
Posts: 682
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:07 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:12 pm

VSMUT wrote:
estorilm wrote:
Not a single Chinese fighter has ever been fielded that didn't have canards too.


J-6, J-7, J-8, J-11, J-16, JF-17. If we expand to ground attack types and high performance armed trainers, the Q-5, JH-7, JL-9 and JL-10.

Your arguments remain far from convincing.

I was joking :roll:

Likewise, you fail to acknowledge the confirmation-bias element to your argument. "Well, they did it before, thus automatically this will be the same."

I'm not saying you're wrong (eventually) but I just doubt that it's got A2G capabilities yet, given the mile-long list of things they're likely still tweaking with the jet and its systems/avionics.

Ozair wrote:
Ozair wrote:
I don’t think anyone has seen the J-20 fly with wing mounted pylons yet but you would expect fuel carriage could be carried externally, so a ferry range could be quite large.


Found an image of the J-20 with external tanks from a couple of years ago, decent sized as well.

Image

Another with apparently the WS-15 installed in one engine bay.

Image

Those are absolutely massive... that's got to CRUSH performance. :o
 
Ozair
Posts: 4145
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:27 pm

Confirmation that the J-20 is now with Chinese PLAAF combat units. There was speculation earlier in the year but the marking on the jet confirm this.

Image confirms J-20 fighter assigned to PLAAF combat unit at Wuhu

Chinese state-owned media have for the first time released an image of a Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group (CAIG) J-20 fifth-generation multirole fighter bearing the serial number of a known combat unit of the People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF), suggesting that the aircraft is ready for frontline service.

The image, which was released by state broadcaster China Central Television (CCTV) in late July, shows the aircraft bearing the number 62001, indicating that it has been assigned to the PLAAF’s 9th Air Brigade based at Wuhu, which operates under the PLA’s Eastern Theatre Command.

Commercial satellite imagery captured in March 2019 showed three J-20s at Wuhu Air Base, suggesting that the aircraft have been operating there since early 2019 or late 2018. It is likely that the fighters are replacing the Su-30MKKs assigned to the 9th Air Brigade, which is believed to be one of the premier fighter units within the PLAAF.

...

https://www.janes.com/article/90225/ima ... it-at-wuhu

Image
 
hmmwv
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:44 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:16 am

VSMUT wrote:
1. The J-20 has barely entered service.

2. What type are you referring to that has only a token A2G capability? Even the J-8 has been used in the SEAD role armed with ARMs. There is an electronic warfare variant. It can also carry an assortment of precision guided bombs, same goes for the J-7. J-10 and various J-11 variants speak for themselves. The last Chinese fighter to only feature unguided rockets, dumb bombs and guns is something like the J-6, and that is clearly a type from an era where that was considered multi-role.


Right now the only Chinese fighters that can be considered multirole are J-8F/H, J-10A/B/C, J-15, and J-16. Yes even the J-11B only has token A2G capabilities, one J-11B was used as a testbed for PGMs (probably for J-15/16), but the rest of the fleet only carry iron bombs and rocket pods.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 2890
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:44 am

hmmwv wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
1. The J-20 has barely entered service.

2. What type are you referring to that has only a token A2G capability? Even the J-8 has been used in the SEAD role armed with ARMs. There is an electronic warfare variant. It can also carry an assortment of precision guided bombs, same goes for the J-7. J-10 and various J-11 variants speak for themselves. The last Chinese fighter to only feature unguided rockets, dumb bombs and guns is something like the J-6, and that is clearly a type from an era where that was considered multi-role.


Right now the only Chinese fighters that can be considered multirole are J-8F/H, J-10A/B/C, J-15, and J-16. Yes even the J-11B only has token A2G capabilities, one J-11B was used as a testbed for PGMs (probably for J-15/16), but the rest of the fleet only carry iron bombs and rocket pods.


What did the J-7 family and JF-17 ever do to you?
 
hmmwv
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:44 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:37 am

VSMUT wrote:
hmmwv wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
1. The J-20 has barely entered service.

2. What type are you referring to that has only a token A2G capability? Even the J-8 has been used in the SEAD role armed with ARMs. There is an electronic warfare variant. It can also carry an assortment of precision guided bombs, same goes for the J-7. J-10 and various J-11 variants speak for themselves. The last Chinese fighter to only feature unguided rockets, dumb bombs and guns is something like the J-6, and that is clearly a type from an era where that was considered multi-role.


Right now the only Chinese fighters that can be considered multirole are J-8F/H, J-10A/B/C, J-15, and J-16. Yes even the J-11B only has token A2G capabilities, one J-11B was used as a testbed for PGMs (probably for J-15/16), but the rest of the fleet only carry iron bombs and rocket pods.


What did the J-7 family and JF-17 ever do to you?


Haha, nothing, but J-7 is not PGM capable, and JF-17 is not in Chinese service.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 2890
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:05 pm

hmmwv wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
hmmwv wrote:

Right now the only Chinese fighters that can be considered multirole are J-8F/H, J-10A/B/C, J-15, and J-16. Yes even the J-11B only has token A2G capabilities, one J-11B was used as a testbed for PGMs (probably for J-15/16), but the rest of the fleet only carry iron bombs and rocket pods.


What did the J-7 family and JF-17 ever do to you?


Haha, nothing, but J-7 is not PGM capable, and JF-17 is not in Chinese service.


You might want to inform the pilot of this J-7 that his plane is not capable of carrying the LS-6 GPS guided glide bomb mounted on the centreline station of his aircraft:

Image

Although rare, it isn't unknown for late-model J-7s to carry GPS or laser guided bombs.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 9775
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:08 pm

VSMUT wrote:
hmmwv wrote:
VSMUT wrote:

What did the J-7 family and JF-17 ever do to you?


Haha, nothing, but J-7 is not PGM capable, and JF-17 is not in Chinese service.


You might want to inform the pilot of this J-7 that his plane is not capable of carrying the LS-6 GPS guided glide bomb mounted on the centreline station of his aircraft:

Image

Although rare, it isn't unknown for late-model J-7s to carry GPS or laser guided bombs.


Do the Chinese rely on GPS guided bombs :shock:
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Ozair
Posts: 4145
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:10 am

Dutchy wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
hmmwv wrote:

Haha, nothing, but J-7 is not PGM capable, and JF-17 is not in Chinese service.


You might want to inform the pilot of this J-7 that his plane is not capable of carrying the LS-6 GPS guided glide bomb mounted on the centreline station of his aircraft:

Image

Although rare, it isn't unknown for late-model J-7s to carry GPS or laser guided bombs.


Do the Chinese rely on GPS guided bombs :shock:

The Chinese have enabled GPS/GLONASS/Beidou guidance to a number of their precision weapons. Hedging their bets I guess...
 
angad84
Posts: 2014
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:04 pm

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:19 pm

And commercial GPS is good for single-digit CEP on just about any weapon, the only time that does not hold true is when they're jamming, at which point NO sat-aided guidance is any good
 
Ozair
Posts: 4145
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:21 pm

angad84 wrote:
the only time that does not hold true is when they're jamming, at which point NO sat-aided guidance is any good

Disagree. The US has CRPA antennas installed in a number of PGMs (JDAM, SDB, Tomahawketc) that provide significant resistance to GPS jamming signals.

Controlled reception-pattern antennas (CRPAs) are advanced, multi-element antenna solutions that protect a GNSS/GPS receiver from jamming sources. When combined with antenna electronics, they form an anti-jam antenna system (AJAS). These systems utilize several available technologies and vary in the number of elements.

https://www.gpsworld.com/antennas-on-th ... i-jamming/

Some test results here, https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/18b5/6 ... 687ea1.pdf
 
angad84
Posts: 2014
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:04 pm

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:40 pm

Ozair wrote:
angad84 wrote:
the only time that does not hold true is when they're jamming, at which point NO sat-aided guidance is any good

Disagree. The US has CRPA antennas installed in a number of PGMs (JDAM, SDB, Tomahawketc) that provide significant resistance to GPS jamming signals.

Controlled reception-pattern antennas (CRPAs) are advanced, multi-element antenna solutions that protect a GNSS/GPS receiver from jamming sources. When combined with antenna electronics, they form an anti-jam antenna system (AJAS). These systems utilize several available technologies and vary in the number of elements.

https://www.gpsworld.com/antennas-on-th ... i-jamming/

Some test results here, https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/18b5/6 ... 687ea1.pdf

ugh. serves me right for shooting from the hip...
 
hmmwv
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:44 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:42 pm

VSMUT wrote:
hmmwv wrote:
VSMUT wrote:

What did the J-7 family and JF-17 ever do to you?


Haha, nothing, but J-7 is not PGM capable, and JF-17 is not in Chinese service.


You might want to inform the pilot of this J-7 that his plane is not capable of carrying the LS-6 GPS guided glide bomb mounted on the centreline station of his aircraft:

Although rare, it isn't unknown for late-model J-7s to carry GPS or laser guided bombs.


Well you got me, however I don't believe I've ever seen any PLAAF/PLANAF J-7 series with any PGMs. I stand by my comment that Chinese J-7s are not PGM capable, maybe asides some odd frames used for testing.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 2890
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:37 pm

hmmwv wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
hmmwv wrote:

Haha, nothing, but J-7 is not PGM capable, and JF-17 is not in Chinese service.


You might want to inform the pilot of this J-7 that his plane is not capable of carrying the LS-6 GPS guided glide bomb mounted on the centreline station of his aircraft:

Although rare, it isn't unknown for late-model J-7s to carry GPS or laser guided bombs.


Well you got me, however I don't believe I've ever seen any PLAAF/PLANAF J-7 series with any PGMs. I stand by my comment that Chinese J-7s are not PGM capable, maybe asides some odd frames used for testing.


Pretty sure I've seen more than a few photos of PLAAF J-7s with guided bombs, but between lack of interest in the west and Chinese censure, keeping track of them is next to impossible. Here today, gone tomorrow.
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 13103
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:26 am

I have little doubt the J-20 will have an ambitious range of stand off weaponry. air-ship, cruise missiles, GPS glide bombs etc.

Totally fits the aircraft specs and Chinese strategy. It costed reportedly $5B to develop it & they will likely be produced in the hundreds.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Ozair
Posts: 4145
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: Chengdu J-20 potential DPRK export?

Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:54 am

The J-20 fleet is slowly building, it appears according to this report that the PLAAF may have as many as 20 production aircraft flying.

China unveils largest ever J-20 stealth fighter formation: video

A promotional video released by the People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) on Tuesday showcased the largest formation of Chengdu J-20s seen yet: seven of the stealthy jets can be spotted, illustrating the service’s growing fifth-generation air power.

...

Wang Ya’nan, chief editor of Aerospace Knowledge magazine, told the Global Times on Tuesday that “a considerable number of units are probably ready to fly the J-20.” The PLAAF has never disclosed how many of the jets it operates, but the South China Morning Post speculated that Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group had built around 20 of the jets so far. The J-20 joined the PLAAF in 2017.

...

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/ch ... ion-video/

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: RetiredWeasel and 15 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos