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Mortyman
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Buran-Energia : The Soviet Space Shuttle 2.0 on a Moon Rocket

Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:37 pm

Interesting presentation of the Buran-Energia : The Soviet Space Shuttle 2.0 on a Moon Rocket

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLOCQw5s9Uw
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Buran-Energia : The Soviet Space Shuttle 2.0 on a Moon Rocket

Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:30 pm

Great video! I know the Soviets had some serious engineering talent for space flight but now I have even more respect for them.

It sucks that that kind of skill didnt carry over to civil aviation, especially the industrial engineering to build support networks.
When wasn't America great?


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VirginFlyer
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Re: Buran-Energia : The Soviet Space Shuttle 2.0 on a Moon Rocket

Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:18 am

I’ve seen a couple of videos claim Buran was originally going to have jet engines, however I’ve seen other sources state that the jet engines were only intended for the atmospheric test articles. Does anyone know which is correct?

V/F
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tu204
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Re: Buran-Energia : The Soviet Space Shuttle 2.0 on a Moon Rocket

Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:50 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:
I’ve seen a couple of videos claim Buran was originally going to have jet engines, however I’ve seen other sources state that the jet engines were only intended for the atmospheric test articles. Does anyone know which is correct?

V/F


I've heard the same in one documentary. It doesn't seem realistic (or useful) for an orbiter and was probably mistakenly interpreted by someone who saw the atmospheric test vehicle with the 4 engines.

In any case, my thoughts on the project is that it was a useless waste of money. You won't save much from reusing the orbiter considering you have to lift that dead weight into orbit. Wanna launch something big? Put it on top of a Proton and chase it with a manned Soyuz.

Only uniquely useful thing about a Shuttle or Buran is the ability to bring stuff back from Orbit. And how many times was that feature used during the entire Space Shuttle program?
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
tommy1808
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Re: Buran-Energia : The Soviet Space Shuttle 2.0 on a Moon Rocket

Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:21 am

tu204 wrote:
Only uniquely useful thing about a Shuttle or Buran is the ability to bring stuff back from Orbit. And how many times was that feature used during the entire Space Shuttle program?


Space Flyer Unit, Palapa B-2, Westar 6, European Retrievable Carrier, LDEF Long Duration Exposure Facility, Shuttle pallet satellite, Wake Shield Facility ...... fairly limited.

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GDB
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Re: Buran-Energia : The Soviet Space Shuttle 2.0 on a Moon Rocket

Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:59 pm

I recall seeing an article, back in the early 1990's, proposing that instead of spending money on Hermes, the planned mini shuttle to be launched on an Ariane 5, they should instead spend it and the human resources on teaming up with Russia to restore the then recently stalled Buran/Energia projects.

Even if Buran was not a good prospect, (though it would have been after Columbia was lost had it become operational in the mid/late 1990's, as well as being useful for ISS), the bigger loss was the booster.
Flew twice, both without auto destructing like it's predecessor the N1 did.

An operational Energia would have also made ISS construction quicker, even perhaps also as part of a US/Russia/ESA return to the Moon. One thing that has bedeviled NASA attempts to go beyond LEO has been politics yes, but politics often around the cost of developing a heavy lift launcher.

Tu204, Buran was approved since the Soviet leadership in the 1970's convinced themselves that the US Shuttle was really some kind of orbiting weapon delivery system, since they had looked at the economics around the STS program and it did not add up, (we now know the figures were more or less plucked out of the air), surely the Capitalists would never accept this?
Though it's true the STS did have Defence Department involvement, or as many see it, distortion that negatively affected it's design, nothing as lurid as 'bombing' was on the menu. Though the plans to also launch it from Vandenberg AFB made them even more paranoid in the Kremlin.
 
cpd
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Re: Buran-Energia : The Soviet Space Shuttle 2.0 on a Moon Rocket

Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:15 pm

Bombing I think was the X-20 project, a sort of mini-shuttle which could carry a nuclear weapon.

But then if anti-satellite weapons were in development then I don’t see how X20 wouldn’t also be at risk. Missiles do the job better for that purpose and are probably cheaper.

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