A340600MAN
Topic Author
Posts: 139
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:42 am

RAF Hawk T.1 Sub Types ?

Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:52 pm

Hi all

I have seen the following sub-types of Hawk T.1 written in various publications and online and I was hoping someone can confirm the difference for me please.

Hawk T.1 - Standard variant ordered / operated by the RAF

Hawk T.1A or Hawk T.1(A) (No idea of the correct typo for this) - Upgraded / modified version of the standard T.1 ... Were all T.1A's upgraded / modified T.1's or were some delivered as such.

Hawk T.1(AF) or Hawk T.1A(F) - No idea which is the correct typo for this. What does the F represent please?

Hawk T.1W - Again, no idea what the W represents. Can anyone help please?

Also on a side note can someone please confirm that all Hawk T.1's used the RAF Red Arrows display team are all the T.1A variant?

Kind regards

Len
Favourite aircraft is the A350-900.
 
GDB
Posts: 13232
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: RAF Hawk T.1 Sub Types ?

Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:35 pm

I can tell you, if memory serves, that originally the T.1A was for aircraft converted to carry AIM-9L's.
In 1979/80 it was determined that the RAF's air defence was too small, with the conventional threat now increasing, the old 'nuclear tripwire' based system needed changing, a conventional threat was back in the shape of TU-22's, TU-22M Backfires, TU-16's and from East German bases, the new SU-24.

While there was not much that could be done in the short term, in boosting the existing F-4 and BAC Lightning interceptors, the replacement Tornado ADV's were some years away, some Bloodhound SAM's were redeployed from protecting RAF bases in West Germany, once their Rapier short range SAM's got the Blindfire radars.

There was a program to harden major airfields, as had been done in Germany, with Rapier SAM's, hardened aircraft shelters and other measures, there was another asset that in wartime, could be used.
Enter the Hawk T.1, already cleared for a centreline 30mm gun pod, a portion of the Hawk fleet were wired to carry AIM-9's too.

While lacking radar, the Hawks could operate with the interceptors, to tackle leakers, with the aid especially of the F-4K/M AWG-11/12 radars, later the Tornado F.3's AI.24 too, as well as going for any that made landfall, the idea being that the last thing a low flying, heavily laded attacker needed, was the agile Hawks going after them too.

The advanced training units would operate these modified Hawks, (and the RAF made the point of also converting the Red Arrows aircraft), were already in 'shadow squadrons', Nos 63, 79, 151 and 234, in the AD support role these, as in their peacetime training role, would be piloted by experienced instructors.

They were de-converted when the Cold War ended.

That's my understanding of the original T.1A Hawk.
 
Armadillo1
Posts: 387
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:14 pm

Re: RAF Hawk T.1 Sub Types ?

Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:16 am

GDB wrote:
with the aid especially of the F-4K/M AWG-11/12 radars, later the Tornado F.3's AI.24 too,.

thank you.
it is some automatic aid like MiG-31 to flankers or just voice?
 
Max Q
Posts: 7545
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: RAF Hawk T.1 Sub Types ?

Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:22 am

I’ve read the Hawk interceptor idea turned out to be impractical


It had to be ‘led’ everywhere by a proper fighter with a radar and couldn’t keep up with its escort either


More trouble than it was worth
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society
 
Armadillo1
Posts: 387
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:14 pm

Re: RAF Hawk T.1 Sub Types ?

Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:25 am

in 1949-1950, MiG-15s had a big issue intercepting RB-47. speed difference too small, they going out of fuel before can catch target.
 
GDB
Posts: 13232
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: RAF Hawk T.1 Sub Types ?

Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:42 pm

Max Q wrote:
I’ve read the Hawk interceptor idea turned out to be impractical


It had to be ‘led’ everywhere by a proper fighter with a radar and couldn’t keep up with its escort either


More trouble than it was worth


It was never really clear if a touch of morale boosting and politics was involved, the idea came about not after Thatcher was elected, she had attacked the predecessor Callaghan government for neglecting defence, though they had started raising spending in their last two years. Whereas her government would soon institute cuts so deep they would be a major factor what led that Junta in Argentina in it's reckless, deadly adventure.

Originally, it's likely that the shadow Hawk squadrons would have had a wartime role in deploying to bolster ground attack in RAF Germany, in a similar fashion to the Luftwaffe Alpha Jets.
In delivering 30mm fire, rockets, 1000lb and like the Alpha Jets, BL755 Cluster Bombs.

There was apparently, some vague plans in the late 70's to use the still decent number of Hawker Hunters in the advanced training role, to support the interceptors.
Like the Hawk however, it lacked radar (save for a basic ranging one), though it had those 4 x 30mm, while some export customers did wire their Hunters with AIM-9s, Oman, Swiss AF and I think Singapore, pretty sure that no RAF ones were done.
So it might not have been an entirely new idea.

Luckily we never got to find out how useful it would or would not have been, I'll say this though, another famous British jet by Hawkers, that had high subsonic performance, armed with 30mm and AIM-9L, did prove it's worth with no other 'proper' interceptors to work with. Many had thought the aircraft a bit of a joke, more a gimmick than a proper combat aircraft.
Weren't they proved wrong?
And the most shocked of all? After the Cold War we found that that was the Soviets.

While the Sea Harrier did of course have a modern radar/weapon system, in it's initial form, the Blue Fox, it was a modified Sea Spray as fitted to the Navy Lynx choppers, for over-water surface search and guiding the Sea Skua ASM.
Modified enough in the Sea Harrier's designed role, to detect shadowing Soviet bombers/MPA's and swat them. (Lookdown/shootdown would have to wait for the Blue Vixen /AIM-120 in the later FA.2 version).
In combat, in plenty of cases, AD Destroyers vectored them to targets, in many others though, kills were from visual ID, often over land.
How close would a low flying A-4 or Dagger (the Mirages having pissed off after coming off worse early on), be to intercepting, bringing down. an AS-4, or AS-5 missile? Or a SU-24 heavily laden?
 
Max Q
Posts: 7545
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: RAF Hawk T.1 Sub Types ?

Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:07 am

The Sea Harrier was an extraordinary aircraft, combining its unique attributes with the superb FAA and RAF pilots in the Falklands
was the key to winning that conflict
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society
 
texl1649
Posts: 994
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:38 am

Re: RAF Hawk T.1 Sub Types ?

Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:09 am

For the Hawk aficionados, I’ve been wondering, what is the advantage to the new Boeing trainer vs. a possible penultimate/final update to, say, an Advanced Hawk derivative? NG considered bidding the aircraft for the USAF T/X contract but found that it had ‘disadvantages’ which I have never read explained.

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