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JayinKitsap
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:18 am

bikerthai wrote:
Polot wrote:
Someone just asked about whether the new livery will be kept at the White House press briefing. Response was they haven’t really looked into it yet but Press Secretary will try and get an update at a later date.


A "unifying" color would be purple (combination of red and blue). But some how I do not think lavender will show up on any VC-25B color palette.

bt


A light pink would also be good.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:09 pm

Ooh, there's that dark purplish/pink paint that shimmers and changes hue at different angles of light that I saw on some custom cars. That would be awesome for accents.

bt
 
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cathay747
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:58 pm

IMHO there is absolutely no reason, much less need, to change the "Jackie Kennedy" livery. It's elegant, classy and understated; the colors are pleasing. The last thing we need for our global image is for our President to be flying around in something that's loud or brash.
 
mxaxai
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:15 pm

bikerthai wrote:
Ooh, there's that dark purplish/pink paint that shimmers and changes hue at different angles of light that I saw on some custom cars. That would be awesome for accents.

bt

You mean like this one:
 
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ssteve
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:38 pm

bikerthai wrote:
Stitch wrote:
25A and the interior fittings may very well not be as ornate as the Trump Administration had desired.


The long lead requirements for these two-of-a-kind interiors will dictate that the design is done and contract already sent to sub tiers. The cost is already sunk and any changes to the interiors will cost more in administrative and schedule delay than any cost saving actualized by using cheaper design/materials.


Fait Accompli, meet Congress. They'll mothball the expensive furniture to buy more austere furniture in the name of saving money... especially if it's 2023.
 
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747classic
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:41 pm

cathay747 wrote:
IMHO there is absolutely no reason, much less need, to change the "Jackie Kennedy" livery. It's elegant, classy and understated; the colors are pleasing. The last thing we need for our global image is for our President to be flying around in something that's loud or brash.


Fully agree :checkmark: It's a classy design, recognized all over the world.
 
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Stitch
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:19 pm

ssteve wrote:
Fait Accompli, meet Congress. They'll mothball the expensive furniture to buy more austere furniture in the name of saving money... especially if it's 2023.


Congress are the ones who already approved the furniture via approving the Defense Appropriations Acts that paid for them.
 
texl1649
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:42 pm

747classic wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
IMHO there is absolutely no reason, much less need, to change the "Jackie Kennedy" livery. It's elegant, classy and understated; the colors are pleasing. The last thing we need for our global image is for our President to be flying around in something that's loud or brash.


Fully agree :checkmark: It's a classy design, recognized all over the world.


That’s exactly how I felt about LH’ livery, yet, here we are.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:54 pm

mxaxai wrote:
bikerthai wrote:
Ooh, there's that dark purplish/pink paint that shimmers and changes hue at different angles of light that I saw on some custom cars. That would be awesome for accents.

bt

You mean like this one:


That's the one. My wife has a silk dress with a similar coating. Very unique.

bt
 
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cathay747
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:12 pm

texl1649 wrote:
747classic wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
IMHO there is absolutely no reason, much less need, to change the "Jackie Kennedy" livery. It's elegant, classy and understated; the colors are pleasing. The last thing we need for our global image is for our President to be flying around in something that's loud or brash.


Fully agree :checkmark: It's a classy design, recognized all over the world.


That’s exactly how I felt about LH’ livery, yet, here we are.


LOL I'm with you, but only insofar as losing the classic "LH yellow", if they'd at least kept that I'd be OK with the changed livery. But the AF1 livery is quite frankly timeless, again IMHO.
 
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N328KF
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:52 pm

Someone asked Jen Psaki the livery question again. Her response was basically "we've got more important things going on," not really surprising.
 
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cathay747
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:38 pm

N328KF wrote:
Someone asked Jen Psaki the livery question again. Her response was basically "we've got more important things going on," not really surprising.


I caught that too. The reporter must be an avgeek and maybe was the same one who asked the question the day before, she had said she'd ask. But yeah, any new presidential admin. has a lot on it's plate at the start, particularly this one, and isn't going to be thinking about something so unimportant (in the big picture).
 
mxaxai
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:55 pm

N328KF wrote:
Someone asked Jen Psaki the livery question again. Her response was basically "we've got more important things going on," not really surprising.

From https://www.airforcemag.com/new-paint-j ... -list-yet/
“The President has not spent a moment thinking about the color scheme of Air Force One,” Psaki said, adding that, “Certainly, we’re aware of the proposal.”

Seems like an appropriate response.
 
FGITD
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:31 pm

Yea can’t be too surprised that it wasn’t the primary concern. Contrary to the love of publicity the previous administration had, I wouldn’t be shocked if a return to the traditional livery was quietly announced later on.

Personally I love the classic VC25 livery. Despite having the words and flag on it, there’s nothing about it that screams AMERICA!! but rather it’s a more subdued, dignified look. The plane means business.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:40 pm

FGITD wrote:
Yea can’t be too surprised that it wasn’t the primary concern. Contrary to the love of publicity the previous administration had, I wouldn’t be shocked if a return to the traditional livery was quietly announced later on.

Personally I love the classic VC25 livery. Despite having the words and flag on it, there’s nothing about it that screams AMERICA!! but rather it’s a more subdued, dignified look. The plane means business.


Which to remind people is a big part of the reason the livery was created. To make it a diplomacy first sort of thing. Which is an important virtue signalling when for the longest time you were effectively the world hegemon. The first view people would have is not of military grey but something shinier, more visible, and less aggressive.
 
firemansparky
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:23 am

Boeing sues, cancels contracts with Air Force One supplier:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-boei ... SKBN2BV37Z
 
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ssteve
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:52 am

Another outsourcing success for Boeing.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:44 pm

ssteve wrote:
Another outsourcing success for Boeing.


I mean, contracting out a high profile interior job to a company that spend dozens of dollars on their WIX website? What could possibly go wrong?
 
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Stitch
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:51 pm

GDC Technics has done two unidentified 777-300ER Head of State conversions (perhaps Japan or India?) as well as 787 VIPs so it is not like they don't have any experience in this.

Frankly, I would not be surprised if it was changes demanded by the Trump Administration that put them behind...
 
firemansparky
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:06 pm

GDC Technics LLC countersues Boeing:

https://apnews.com/article/fort-worth-t ... 7c9af0eabc
 
Buckeyetech
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Sat May 22, 2021 3:42 am

 
FriscoHeavy
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Air Force One - Delay to New 747-8 Deliveries

Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:17 pm

Unfortunately, it looks like the new Air Force One planes (x2) will be delayed about a year and now enter serve in 2025. I can't wait to see these beauties take to the skies.

https://www.newsmax.com/us/boeing-air-f ... d/1024499/
 
Insertnamehere
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Re: Air Force One - Delay to New 747-8 Deliveries

Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:28 pm

Has the paint job for them been finalized, or is it still up in the air?
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: Air Force One - Delay to New 747-8 Deliveries

Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:31 pm

Insertnamehere wrote:
Has the paint job for them been finalized, or is it still up in the air?


That's a great question. I have no idea.
 
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alberchico
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Re: Air Force One - Delay to New 747-8 Deliveries

Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:13 pm

It is very likely it will be painted in the current Kennedy era livery. It also looks like Boeing wants to change the contract to get the govt to cough up an additional $500 million dollars. What if they refused and insisted Boeing cover any cost overruns ?
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: Air Force One - Delay to New 747-8 Deliveries

Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:23 pm

alberchico wrote:
It is very likely it will be painted in the current Kennedy era livery. It also looks like Boeing wants to change the contract to get the govt to cough up an additional $500 million dollars. What if they refused and insisted Boeing cover any cost overruns ?



No idea what happens if the government refuses to cough up the dough. This administration will cough it up, though. Regarding the livery, it will be impossible to say because with this delay, it will be delivered about a year into the next administration, whomever that may be. Changing the paint would be a 'quick' process, relatively speaking.
 
sxf24
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Re: Air Force One - Delay to New 747-8 Deliveries

Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:34 pm

alberchico wrote:
It is very likely it will be painted in the current Kennedy era livery. It also looks like Boeing wants to change the contract to get the govt to cough up an additional $500 million dollars. What if they refused and insisted Boeing cover any cost overruns ?


These type of programs usually face delays and require additional payments because the customers requirements keep changing. Thi
 
UA444
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Re: Air Force One - Delay to New 747-8 Deliveries

Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:40 pm

They’re probably just trying to get the money they would’ve gotten had Trump ordered factory fresh planes and not fought for cheaper prices.
 
jetwet1
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Re: Air Force One - Delay to New 747-8 Deliveries

Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:13 pm

UA444 wrote:
They’re probably just trying to get the money they would’ve gotten had Trump ordered factory fresh planes and not fought for cheaper prices.


I don't want this to get political, but under the previous administration, the cost of the two aircraft went from $3.2B in 2016 to $5.3B in 2019, so yeah cheap prices well negotiated.

As SXF24 rightly points out, these projects only certainties are that the total price will go up. Boeing agreed to a fixed price contract, however I am sure there was a clause that allowed for an increase should the customer change the specs.

https://www.businessinsider.com/air-for ... ion-2019-8
 
BUFJACK10
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Re: Air Force One - Delay to New 747-8 Deliveries

Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:27 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
Insertnamehere wrote:
Has the paint job for them been finalized, or is it still up in the air?


That's a great question. I have no idea.


I hope they do change it. That scheme is so 50’s and 60’s. They need something to make a stronger futuristic statement. Just because it’s got the right colors doesn’t make it right.
 
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SuperGee
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Re: Air Force One - Delay to New 747-8 Deliveries

Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:50 am

Well, maybe they can just keep the current VC-25's patched together until this one comes along (IF it ever does). :)

https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/0 ... -mach-1-8/

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/supe ... index.html
Last edited by SuperGee on Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:07 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
I am sure there was a clause that allowed for an increase should the customer change the specs.


Standard procedure for all contracts. Sometimes we would joke that suppliers will bid low hoping that the design gets changed. This is especially true for new design.

bt
 
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Stitch
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:21 pm

The article mentions Boeing has claimed the delay is due to COVID and the bankruptcy of GDC Technics LLC and is seeking the funds to cover the additional costs of operating under COVID restrictions and I presume seeking a new contractor to continue the interior outfitting originally contracted to GDC Technics or to bail out GDC Technics long enough to complete their original contracted work.

I am presuming that as with the commercial FALS, Boeing has had to practice social distancing aboard the VC-25Bs the past year so that likely has slowed the change incorporation work. So I would not be surprised if the USAF agrees to the delay and the payments because those were arguably imposed by the government (federal, state, county, city).

The GDC Technics bankruptcy would likely depend on what contingencies are written into the contract covering such a possibility. If it is covered, then the USAF will pay. If Boeing was expected to handle such issues internally as Prime Contractor (and seek redress in Bankruptcy Court), than the USAF probably does not have to pay, but may do so anyway.
 
GDB
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:52 pm

Not directly VC-25B related, however as it's Presidential transports, the following formation just flew over me near LHR, for Biden's trip to see Brenda at Windsor Castle, here they are practicing at RAF Northolt, also not far from me, the previous day;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wSE7tE0u5A
 
HaveBlue
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:39 pm

GDB wrote:
Not directly VC-25B related, however as it's Presidential transports, the following formation just flew over me near LHR, for Biden's trip to see Brenda at Windsor Castle, here they are practicing at RAF Northolt, also not far from me, the previous day;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wSE7tE0u5A


That was an awesome video, nice to see Sea Kings, Pumas and EC-145's in the air together. Great video quality too.
 
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Stitch
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Re: VC-25 Pre-Prod.

Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:50 pm

rturner wrote:
Do we have any images anywhere of VC-25B pre VC-25?


Just came across a show from February 2021 on the National Geographic Channel that covers the early modification process for the VC-25Bs from their former Transaero "green" configuration. It is titled "The New Air Force One: Flying Fortress" and is available via cable OnDemand and on the NatGeo website.
 
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rturner
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Re: VC-25 Pre-Prod.

Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:12 pm

Thank you!

Stitch wrote:
rturner wrote:
Do we have any images anywhere of VC-25B pre VC-25?


Just came across a show from February 2021 on the National Geographic Channel that covers the early modification process for the VC-25Bs from their former Transaero "green" configuration. It is titled "The New Air Force One: Flying Fortress" and is available via cable OnDemand and on the NatGeo website.
 
na
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Re: Air Force One - Delay to New 747-8 Deliveries

Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:22 am

BUFJACK10 wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
Insertnamehere wrote:
Has the paint job for them been finalized, or is it still up in the air?


That's a great question. I have no idea.


I hope they do change it. That scheme is so 50’s and 60’s. They need something to make a stronger futuristic statement. Just because it’s got the right colors doesn’t make it right.



I do like the Jackie Kennedy livery, however, overall it indeed looks dated for a nation looking into the future. But the current AF1 look still looks much better than what that last president wanted for it.
I hope they keep the powder blue and the shiny silver bells somehow.
 
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747classic
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Re: VC-25 Pre-Prod.

Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:24 pm

Stitch wrote:
rturner wrote:
Do we have any images anywhere of VC-25B pre VC-25?


Just came across a show from February 2021 on the National Geographic Channel that covers the early modification process for the VC-25Bs from their former Transaero "green" configuration. It is titled "The New Air Force One: Flying Fortress" and is available via cable OnDemand and on the NatGeo website.


Some nice shots from the actual modification,

However it's a Trump inspired PR documentary with a lot of fake information :
An example : the fastest passenger aircraft in the world (time 09:55 min) will be VC-25B, factual not correct, the new 747-8I wing profile is limiting the max speed and crz eco.
747-200B : VMO/MMO 375/0.92
747-8I : VMO/MMO = 365/0.90
The deletion of the IFR is not even mentioned (or i missed it)
 
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rturner
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Re: VC-25 Pre-Prod.

Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:57 pm

747classic wrote:
Stitch wrote:
rturner wrote:
Do we have any images anywhere of VC-25B pre VC-25?


Just came across a show from February 2021 on the National Geographic Channel that covers the early modification process for the VC-25Bs from their former Transaero "green" configuration. It is titled "The New Air Force One: Flying Fortress" and is available via cable OnDemand and on the NatGeo website.


Some nice shots from the actual modification,

However it's a Trump inspired PR documentary with a lot of fake information :
An example : the fastest passenger aircraft in the world (time 09:55 min) will be VC-25B, factual not correct, the new 747-8I wing profile is limiting the max speed and crz eco.
747-200B : VMO/MMO 375/0.92
747-8I : VMO/MMO = 365/0.90
The deletion of the IFR is not even mentioned (or i missed it)



Also to state that we paid almost 3 dollars for someone saying the same thing over and over, like wanting new equipment.
 
PC12Fan
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Sat Oct 23, 2021 1:50 pm

I am in agreement with those who say to keep the current livery. It's iconic, represents what the aircraft is all about. I agree in reverse to what Trump said about it, "people have gotten used to it", which is exactly why it should remain.

Although, IMHO, a slight tweaking of the livery could be done. A subtle font change perhaps?



I mean, it IS a U.S. Air Force aircraft after all. :bigthumbsup:
 
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bikerthai
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:17 pm

How's this for a gimmick.

Since this represents the "United States", they can rotate images representing aspects of each of the 50 states on the windows of the plane.

bt
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:18 am

bikerthai wrote:
How's this for a gimmick.

Since this represents the "United States", they can rotate images representing aspects of each of the 50 states on the windows of the plane.

bt


I'm sure the Southwest Marketing department would be happy to help out. ;)
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Air Force One - Delay to New 747-8 Deliveries

Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:55 am

na wrote:
BUFJACK10 wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:

That's a great question. I have no idea.


I hope they do change it. That scheme is so 50’s and 60’s. They need something to make a stronger futuristic statement. Just because it’s got the right colors doesn’t make it right.



I do like the Jackie Kennedy livery, however, overall it indeed looks dated for a nation looking into the future. But the current AF1 look still looks much better than what that last president wanted for it.
I hope they keep the powder blue and the shiny silver bells somehow.


The livery is a mainstay of the US government 'brand' image around the world and should not be radically altered. At most, a font change would be in order, other than that, the basic scheme and appearance should remain as-is.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:33 pm

That's right! A change in color scheme would necessitate repainting the whole executive fleet.
More $$.

bt
 
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cathay747
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:36 pm

bikerthai wrote:
That's right! A change in color scheme would necessitate repainting the whole executive fleet.
More $$.

bt


Good point, but it wouldn't really necessitate that. The Presidential fleet could have a livery distinct from the rest of the VIP fleet. Some would argue that would be entirely appropriate. But it still shouldn't be changed for all the reasons already stated. Hopefully the powers-that-be take a cue from a few of the world's airlines who've only tinkered a bit with an otherwise timeless/classic livery...SQ comes to mind. Just because something's old doesn't mean it needs to be replaced.
 
744SPX
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:32 pm

The big question in my mind regarding the livery is if they use the Jackie Kennedy, will they keep the polished aluminum belly? I ask because you will note that every retro livery produced in the last 10-15 years (and not just on 747's but many other types of commercial AC built of aluminum) has had polished aluminum sections painted grey. Pathetic, cheapskate move by airlines, but will the VC-25B follow suit? I have a bad feeling it will, as being cheap is contagious.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:16 pm

The paint is cheap yes! But there will be hell if some some opposition congressman get a hold of the cost to keep the aluminum polished.

The aluminum skin is has a thin clad layer. After multiple polishing the clad will be removed and the exposed aluminum will be prone to corrosion.

The other thing I am unsure of is the appearance at the section and skin panel joints. In the past, these joints are steel and aluminum fasteners. However these joints are now titanium fasteners with a different color and will probably be of a dull matte appearance against the aluminum. Not sure how much they will stand out against the polished aluminum though.

br
 
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Moose135
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:06 am

744SPX wrote:
The big question in my mind regarding the livery is if they use the Jackie Kennedy, will they keep the polished aluminum belly? I ask because you will note that every retro livery produced in the last 10-15 years (and not just on 747's but many other types of commercial AC built of aluminum) has had polished aluminum sections painted grey. Pathetic, cheapskate move by airlines, but will the VC-25B follow suit? I have a bad feeling it will, as being cheap is contagious.


From what I've read here and elsewhere, the shift from polished aluminum bellies to paint isn't about being cheap. With the variety of materials used in modern aircraft, you may get pieces and panels that are composites or other non-metallic materials, which would result in a patchwork appearance. Paint allows a uniform look.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: USAF VC-25B News and Discussion Thread

Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:17 am

Moose135 wrote:
With the variety of materials used in modern aircraft, you may get pieces and panels that are composites or other non-metallic materials,


Good point I bet all the landing gear doors are non-metallic.

bt

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