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JonesNL
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Re: Second tier advanced fighter projects news and discussion

Tue May 18, 2021 9:59 am

RJMAZ wrote:
I don't see how Turkey can make the TF-X. They have never made a basic jet trainer yet they are aiming for a stealth, supersonic, 5th gen fighter with advanced avionics straight off the bat. They will probably not have access to the best western systems.

I can see them producing an overweight, underpowered, non combat capable, handbuilt and flyable prototype by 2030. All show, no go. A revised version then gets forced into service in extremely low numbers to save face. It ends up having extremely low reliability and very basic combat capability similar to a 4th gen fighter. Turkey will continuously say it is the most advanced 5th gen fighter in the world. It will never see a single international sale.

Who here agrees with this prediction?

You are more optimistic than I am; none of the numbers add up. This whole project is to feed the nationalism among the Turkish population. I wouldn’t be surprised if we will never see a prototype flying…
 
art
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Re: Second tier advanced fighter projects news and discussion

Tue May 18, 2021 6:15 pm

I won't be surprised if it is still going as a national prestige programme in 2030 but with an aircraft still many years away from entering service. Whatever, if they get it to fly I think that wil keep the nationalists happy and give the public something to see at air shows.
 
art
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Re: Second tier advanced fighter projects news and discussion

Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:05 am

Two months after its much-ballyhooed April 9 unveiling, the KF-21 Boramae is being dismantled, raising awkward questions about the true readiness of the prototype of Korea's first indigenously developed fighter jet.


https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/20 ... etailWord=

???
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Second tier advanced fighter projects news and discussion

Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:15 pm

art wrote:
Two months after its much-ballyhooed April 9 unveiling, the KF-21 Boramae is being dismantled, raising awkward questions about the true readiness of the prototype of Korea's first indigenously developed fighter jet.

:shakehead: Noooo :!: What are they going to use now for the Top Gun sequel...pure CGI? :hissyfit:
 
744SPX
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Re: Second tier advanced fighter projects news and discussion

Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:34 pm

Devilfish wrote:
art wrote:
Two months after its much-ballyhooed April 9 unveiling, the KF-21 Boramae is being dismantled, raising awkward questions about the true readiness of the prototype of Korea's first indigenously developed fighter jet.

:shakehead: Noooo :!: What are they going to use now for the Top Gun sequel...pure CGI? :hissyfit:



Might as well, that's what they're doing with the F-14 in the Top Gun sequel.
 
art
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Re: Second tier advanced fighter projects news and discussion

Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:59 am

Temel Kotil, general manager of Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI), which is the main contractor of the project, told government-owned Anadolu Agency that the production process is progressing well and that the prototype, which includes avionics, control and hydraulic systems, will be unveiled for the first time on March 18, 2023.


https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/

I like a firm date. I can't make out whether this means the rollout of a complete, flyable prototype, though.
 
art
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Re: Second tier advanced fighter projects news and discussion

Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:10 am

art wrote:
Temel Kotil, general manager of Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI), which is the main contractor of the project, told government-owned Anadolu Agency that the production process is progressing well and that the prototype, which includes avionics, control and hydraulic systems, will be unveiled for the first time on March 18, 2023.


https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/

I like a firm date. I can't make out whether this means the rollout of a complete, flyable prototype, though.


Above report has now disappeared from https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/. Perhaps the report mistakenly referred to TF-X instead of the Hurjet.
 
art
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Re: Second tier advanced fighter projects news and discussion

Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:37 pm

Japan reveals digital development plan for F-X fighter

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news ... -x-fighter
 
art
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Re: Second tier advanced fighter projects news and discussion

Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:12 am

Japan has decided that it will develop the engine for the F-X fighter with help from Britain.

Britain’s Rolls-Royce will partner with Japan’s IHI Corporation. Both will also offer the engine for the export market. Anonymous Japanese officials told the news outlet that Japanese Prime Minister Suga spoke on the issue with British Prime Minister Johnson during the G7 summit last month. At the end of June, officials from Japan’s Defense Ministry traveled to Britain for talks on the issue.


https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Second tier advanced fighter projects news and discussion

Thu Aug 12, 2021 5:26 pm

Indonesian aerospace engineers are returning to South Korea to resume work on the KF-21 Boramae / IF-X.....

https://www.flightglobal.com/defence/ja ... 49.article

This suggests that counterpart Indonesian development funding is forthcoming. :dollarsign: :dollarsign: :dollarsign: :dollarsign: :dollarsign: :dollarsign: :dollarsign: :dollarsign: :dollarsign: :dollarsign: Is Dassault's Rafale sales campaign in Jakarta faltering? :swirl:
 
art
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Re: Second tier advanced fighter projects news and discussion

Wed Aug 18, 2021 8:31 pm

Devilfish wrote:
Indonesian aerospace engineers are returning to South Korea to resume work on the KF-21 Boramae / IF-X.....

https://www.flightglobal.com/defence/ja ... 49.article

This suggests that counterpart Indonesian development funding is forthcoming. :dollarsign: :dollarsign: :dollarsign: :dollarsign: :dollarsign: :dollarsign: :dollarsign: :dollarsign: :dollarsign: :dollarsign: Is Dassault's Rafale sales campaign in Jakarta faltering? :swirl:


Well, they weren't just interested in buying Rafale. I think they also wanted

Eurofighter
F-15
F-16
F/A-18
MiG-29
Osprey

When Indonesia is on the verge of buying something that generally means Indonesia is not on the verge of buying anything.

Interesting to hear their engineers are going back to S Korea to work on KF-X. I wonder if they know the prototype was rolled out a few months ago.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Second tier advanced fighter projects news and discussion

Fri Aug 20, 2021 3:13 am

art wrote:
I wonder if they know the prototype was rolled out a few months ago.


A prototype is just that. A prototype. Typically it is made from cheaper material to prove a concept or provide sufficient flight hours for initial testing.

You still need massive Engineering work to finalize the production design, using more durable (more expensive) materials, and at the same time, manufacturing processes better suited for "mass production" (less expensive).

bt
 
mxaxai
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Re: Second tier advanced fighter projects news and discussion

Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:42 pm

HAL orders F404 engines for the Tejas Mk1A and is eyeing license-built F414 engines for the Mk2A program.
https://www.defensenews.com/industry/20 ... s-fighter/
Hindustan Aeronautics chooses GE engine for India’s Tejas fighter

NEW DELHI — India’s state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited on Tuesday signed a $716 million contract with GE Aviation for F404-GE-IN20 engines for the homemade LCA Mk1A Tejas light combat aircraft.

HAL ordered 99 of the engines as well as support services from GE Aviation, the Indian firm said in a statement.
 
mxaxai
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Re: Second tier advanced fighter projects news and discussion

Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:49 pm

Morocco is interested in "stealth weaponry", though "stealth" appears to be more focused on UAVs rather than crewed fighters.
https://www.defensenews.com/global/mide ... air-force/
Here are Morocco’s top priorities for modernizing its Air Force

“The U.S. has been most effective in boosting Morocco’s access to stealth weaponry, specifically U.S. drones [and] precision-guided munitions as well as laser-guided munitions,” he added.
...
“The U.S. and Turkey are working together on bolstering Morocco’s stealth capabilities, as 12 Bayraktar TB2 drones will soon arrive in Morocco,” Ramani said.
 
art
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Re: Second tier advanced fighter projects news and discussion

Wed Oct 06, 2021 1:45 pm

Turkey's TF-X to cost $100 million a piece?

ANKARA, Turkey — A Ukrainian engine will power Turkey’s new Atak II-class T929 helicopter, the head of Turkish Aerospace Industries announced Monday in a TV interview, during which he also identified the price of the future TF-X fighter jet as $100 million per unit.


https://www.defensenews.com/industry/te ... st-turkey/

Can Turkey produce an aircraft in small numbers at this cost? I don't see it... but being a Muslim state perhaps Turkey sees the aircraft as a way of gaining influence in the Muslim world (eg the Gulf) by offering something the US won't supply due to Israeli/American Jewish lobby influence. I'm sure that any takers will pay a high price through package costs in any deal, just as with US and northern European suppliers.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Second tier advanced fighter projects news and discussion

Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:17 pm

art wrote:
Turkey's TF-X to cost $100 million a piece?

ANKARA, Turkey — A Ukrainian engine will power Turkey’s new Atak II-class T929 helicopter, the head of Turkish Aerospace Industries announced Monday in a TV interview, during which he also identified the price of the future TF-X fighter jet as $100 million per unit.


https://www.defensenews.com/industry/te ... st-turkey/

Can Turkey produce an aircraft in small numbers at this cost? I don't see it... but being a Muslim state perhaps Turkey sees the aircraft as a way of gaining influence in the Muslim world (eg the Gulf) by offering something the US won't supply due to Israeli/American Jewish lobby influence. I'm sure that any takers will pay a high price through package costs in any deal, just as with US and northern European suppliers.

I am trying to find something that backs up the "he said" part of the price and can't find anything? Clicking all the links in the articles and there is no direct quote that I can se either. Trying to figure out if it is accurate and if so what it covers for the program and costs.

Tugg
 
art
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Re: Second tier advanced fighter projects news and discussion

Fri Oct 08, 2021 10:34 am

Old news but indicative of the state of the TF-X programme...

Turkey originally planned to fly the TF-X in 2023, but aerospace officials put off the target date to the 2025-2026 time frame.

The TF-X program, or MMU in its Turkish acronym, has been crawling over the past years due to technological failures and know-how transfer. Turkish engineers must first select an engine for the planned aircraft before they finalize their designing phase.


https://www.defensenews.com/industry/te ... ghter-jet/

Sounds like things are not going according to plan: 2-3 year delay in first flight; no engine in sight. I wonder if it will be cancelled once the current president loses power.
 
RJMAZ
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Re: Second tier advanced fighter projects news and discussion

Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:36 am

art wrote:
Old news but indicative of the state of the TF-X programme...


Turkey asks US to buy 40 Lockheed Martin F-16 jets

https://www.dailysabah.com/business/def ... ources/amp

Turkey knows it's going to be a long time until they have their 5th gen fighter.

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