Cruiser wrote:

Looks like CBC is now picking up the story...a week later!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/prime- ... -1.5381367

N14AZ wrote:

Cruiser wrote:

Looks like CBC is now picking up the story...a week later!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/prime- ... -1.5381367

Ouch...

ThePointblank wrote:

N14AZ wrote:

Cruiser wrote:

Looks like CBC is now picking up the story...a week later!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/prime- ... -1.5381367

Ouch...

Class B damage per the accident report, and aircraft out of service till August 2020. It doesn't sound good.

ThePointblank wrote:

The actual investigation report (so far):

http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/assets ... 5nov19.pdf

Once the aircraft reached a position in front of 10 hangar, the tow crew stopped the aircraft, set the chocks and the parking brake. During the tow tractor change, while no tractor was attached, the aircraft started moving forward and over the chocks.

N14AZ wrote:

ThePointblank wrote:

N14AZ wrote:

Ouch...

Class B damage per the accident report, and aircraft out of service till August 2020. It doesn't sound good.

This is something I don't understand. Quote from this report:

ThePointblank wrote:

The actual investigation report (so far):

http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/assets ... 5nov19.pdf

Once the aircraft reached a position in front of 10 hangar, the tow crew stopped the aircraft, set the chocks and the parking brake. During the tow tractor change, while no tractor was attached, the aircraft started moving forward and over the chocks.

The aircraft went over the chocks?!?! With set parking brake? Something doesn't add up.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s bad luck with planes continues.

He was forced to use a backup aircraft Monday to ferry him to London for a NATO summit because the usual prime ministerial jet was damaged in a hangar accident last month.

But after he got to London, the Royal Canadian Air Force discovered a problem with one of the engines on the backup plane during a postflight inspection.

The RCAF says that plane, a CC-150 Polaris, is being repaired but is temporarily “unserviceable.”

So, the RCAF has commandeered another CC-150 Polaris – which was in Italy with Gov. Gen. Julie Payette, who has been on a European tour of her own – to take Trudeau, his entourage and accompanying media back to Ottawa.

Another plane will have to be found to bring Payette home in time to read Thursday’s speech from the throne to open the new session of Parliament.

ThePointblank wrote:

And they'll need to find another plane to get the Governor General back to Ottawa before Thursday...

kc135topboom wrote:

The accident happened on 18 October.

On 18 October 2019 a CC150 was towed from the North ramp to 10 Hangar at 8 Wing Trenton. 10 Hangar is not routinely used by the CC150, and the D-14 tow tractor normally used is too large for the limited space available inside 10 Hangar. Before entering the hangar, the ground crew were required to stop and swap the tow tractor from the bigger D-14 to the smaller D-12.

Once the aircraft reached a position in front of 10 Hangar, the contracted maintenance tow crew stopped the aircraft, installed chocks, set the parking brake, and disconnected the tow tractor. During the tow tractor change, the aircraft started moving forward and jumped over the chocks. Attempts to stop the aircraft by the tow crew were unsuccessful. The right engine struck the D-12 tow tractor parked inside the hangar, before the nose contacted the hangar far wall structure, finally stopping the aircraft.

The aircraft sustained serious damage (“C” category). The force of impact resulted in one minor injury.

The investigation could not positively determine the cause for the parking brake not holding the aircraft in position. However, it was found that the chocks used to secure the aircraft were not authorized in the Technical Support Arrangement and not all wheels had chocks at the time of the accident. Brakeman training was found to be informal and lacking emergency procedures and reference to aircraft publications.

The investigation recommends the use of approved chocks on all wheels and improved training for towing operations.

ThePointblank wrote:

Mercedes Stephenson over at Global News tweeted out that it will cost $11 million to fix the damage, and the aircraft will be out of service till January 2021:

Devilfish wrote:

ThePointblank wrote:

Mercedes Stephenson over at Global News tweeted out that it will cost $11 million to fix the damage, and the aircraft will be out of service till January 2021:

Hmmn...wouldn't that be enough downpayment for a green A221CJ? (conceptual design is of an A223).....


https://www.businessjetinteriorsinterna ... 20-702.jpg


.....or at least a Global 7500 .....

That should help Bombardier a little bit.

https://www.flightglobal.com/business-a ... 04.article

diverted wrote:

Mate, we already bought two Challengers off them earlier this month. And judging from the delivery schedule, wouldn't surprise me if they were two aircraft Bombardier lost the customers for, and got lucky that the government's been talking of buying two.

jmt18325 wrote:

The Polaris is used when a large passenger capacity is needed. It will have to be replaced by something equally large later this decade.

Devilfish wrote:

jmt18325 wrote:

The Polaris is used when a large passenger capacity is needed. It will have to be replaced by something equally large later this decade.

It just occurred to me that the PM might feel 'slighted' that other officials would be flying on brand new jets while he and his entourage travel in a 'refurbished' aircraft. A Global 7500 appears a reasonable compromise if an ACJ would be untenable. The aging, mx prone Polaris could be reassigned to troop transport duty or other military roles.

ThePointblank wrote:

The government needs the passenger capacity of the Polaris for the entire entourage of the PM, plus the accompanying press. In that sense, the Polaris is barely adequate for the task, being limited in both range and capacity.

kc135topboom wrote:

Maybe PM Trudeau can ask President Trump for a lift on AF-1?

Devilfish wrote:

ThePointblank wrote:

The government needs the passenger capacity of the Polaris for the entire entourage of the PM, plus the accompanying press. In that sense, the Polaris is barely adequate for the task, being limited in both range and capacity.

That requirement for the media to be at the PM's side all the time perplexes...not that they need to be apprised of each and every detail on the agenda. Why couldn't they just charter separately and be at each itinerary ahead of time? Their role of informing the public (plus a bit of PR) can just as effectively be achieved in this age of cutting edge communication - without being scooped by others. Those lower on the government totem pole can fly with the press instead.

It's time to trim delegations so taxpayers' perception that official travel is being used as an excuse for junkets could be diminished. To that end, a ~50 pax capacity A223 state transport seems adequate. Perhaps the rumored MTOW increase (156,000 lbs) could see it attaining ample range by the time Polaris bids goodbye. Failing those, the VIP Squadron could wait for the A321XLR or if that's still not enough, both large OEMs have a whole range of widebodies to choose from. Just don't expect impressive results at the polls.

ThePointblank wrote:

The biggest issue now with the CC-150 Polaris is both capacity and range; the aircraft is very marginal in terms of range to reach most destinations overseas without multiple refuelling stops along the way, and it's starting to get a bit cramped in the back because the entourage over time keeps growing, with an increasing need for spaces to work in private for the higher level political staff.

Officials in Ottawa are starting the hunt to replace the aging fleet of Polaris VIP and transport aircraft.

The military’s fleet of five transport and refuelling aircraft, which includes the VIP planes used for sitting governors general and prime ministers, has been plagued by mechanical problems.
The main executive jet was grounded and remains so after sustaining “significant structural damage” during a hangar accident in October 2019, and the backup executive jet was temporarily grounded over engine problems the following month.

The fleet began life as commercial aircraft in 1987 before the Royal Canadian Air Force bought them in 1992. It has been using them ever since when the planes are not in for repairs, which is often.

There has been speculation in recent years the government would move to replace the aging planes.

Strategic Tanker Transport Capability Project - Draft Invitation to Qualify.

Public Services and Procurement Canada (PSPC) on behalf of the Department of National Defence (DND) is issuing a draft Invitation to Qualify for the Canadian Armed Forces’ (CAF) Strategic Tanker Transport Capability (STTC) project. This project, which is part of Strong, Secure, Engaged, seeks to replace and renew our air-to-air refueling capability for the next generation.

Since 1994, the CC-150 Polaris aircraft and its crews have provided outstanding service to Canada.

The Polaris fleet is capable of filling multiple roles – including cargo airlift, medical evacuations, the transport of Canadian Armed Forces and government personnel, and air-to-air refueling. Over the past 10 years, the CC-150 Polaris fleet has been utilized over 90% of its time completing strategic airlifts, air-to-air refueling and aeromedical missions.

The Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) is looking for a new fleet of multi-role aircraft that possess the following capabilities:

Air-to-air refuelling capability to accommodate all NATO and NORAD aircraft, including whichever aircraft is selected by the Future Fighter Capability Project;
The ability to be reconfigured to support missions for strategic airlift and aeromedical evacuations;
Upgraded secure communications systems; and
A Self-protection system.

The Polaris fleet provides the majority of air-to-air refueling for our fighter fleet. This capability allows the RCAF to extend our fighter fleet range and operating time, which is critical to our contribution our NORAD and NATO partners. The Polaris fleet has seen extensive use home and abroad, including on Operation IMPACT, where it has delivered more than 65 million pounds of fuel to coalition aircraft.

After 25 years of service, the aircraft are in need of replacement. In 2020, aircraft availability has significantly increased while average aircraft prices from major suppliers are reportedly lower. Due to significant changes in the global aircraft market this year, the Canadian Armed Forces are taking the prudent step of exploring all options for the long-planned replacement of this fleet.

Canada’s Industrial and Technological Benefits (ITB) Policy, including the value proposition, will apply to this procurement to leverage economic benefits for Canada equal to the value of the contract. Through the ITB Policy, the STTC project will leverage investments and business activities in support of Canada’s key industrial capabilities.

The Aircraft must off-load 135 000 lbs of fuel in flight to enable the transit of RCAF CF188 fighter aircraft in a single leg from Bagotville, Canada to Spangdahlem, Germany. The Aircraft flight plan encompasses a takeoff from Bagotville, cruise at 31 000 ft mean sea level non-stop to Spangdahlem, Germany, air-to-air refueling of the CF188 fighter aircraft over the Atlantic, and the Aircraft landing with enough fuel remaining for a 200 Nautical Mile divert.

With the AAR Flight from Qualification Requirement No. 2 completed, the Aircraft having landed and any required reconfiguration of the Aircraft completed, the Aircraft refuels and boards 130 troops along with their baggage. The Aircraft then immediately launches and flies a minimum of 5600 Nautical Miles to another commercial airport and lands with enough fuel remaining for a 200 Nautical Mile divert.

With the Airlift Flight 1 from Qualification Requirement No. 3 completed, the Aircraft having landed at a commercial airport, disembarked 130 troops along with their baggage, and any required reconfiguration of the Aircraft completed, the Aircraft refuels, and boards 194 passengers along with their baggage. The Aircraft then immediately launches and flies a minimum of 5600 Nautical Miles to another commercial airport and lands with enough fuel remaining for a 200 Nautical Mile divert.

aumaverick wrote:

Anyone want to front the money to buy a few of the lower-hour USAF KC-10s going to the Boneyard, refurbish, and propose a lease-to-buy to the RCAF?

aumaverick wrote:

Anyone want to front the money to buy a few of the lower-hour USAF KC-10s going to the Boneyard, refurbish, and propose a lease-to-buy to the RCAF?

The federal government is exploring the possibility of replacing its aging fleet of transportation planes as part of a planned bailout of the country's battered airline industry, federal sources said.

While plans to replace the Canadian Armed Forces' five CC-150 Polaris aircraft have been in the works for years, government officials said they have started to look at whether any deal can be found among commercial airlines that are currently looking for financial relief from Ottawa.

The airline industry has been one of the hardest hit by the COVID-19 pandemic and is facing a liquidity crisis, having been forced to cut back on a number of regular routes amid a sharp decline in demand.

Sources, whom CBC News agreed not to identify in order to discuss confidential elements of the procurement process and talks with the airline industry, said Air Canada is seen as a potential supplier for the fleet, which is used to transport cargo, troops and dignitaries such as the prime minister. Still, the sources said discussions are preliminary.

Last week, all potential suppliers were invited to signify their interest in the contract as part of an "invitation to qualify" published on a federal website.

"It is not a new project," a defence official said. "The reason why [the Canadian Armed Forces] are looking at this now is really because of the fact there have been significant changes in the global aircraft market this year. They are looking at options to see what suppliers might have available, because order books are looking different than they were a year ago."

Another official confirmed the government sees a possible window to inject liquidity into the airline industry at the same time as it seeks to replace its fleet of gas guzzling transport aircraft.

GCT64 wrote:

The Spanish Air Force is also going down the "purchase second hand A330s from a local airline and convert them to MRTTs" route: "Spain is planning to purchase a trio of former Iberia Airbus A330-200s to convert them into Multi-Role Tanker Transports for the country’s air force." (Aviation Week - 1 Dec 20)

aumaverick wrote:

Anyone want to front the money to buy a few of the lower-hour USAF KC-10s going to the Boneyard, refurbish, and propose a lease-to-buy to the RCAF?

acecrackshot wrote:

aumaverick wrote:

Anyone want to front the money to buy a few of the lower-hour USAF KC-10s going to the Boneyard, refurbish, and propose a lease-to-buy to the RCAF?

That's actually a good idea. KFS has plenty of experience with the fleet as well.

aumaverick wrote:

acecrackshot wrote:

aumaverick wrote:

Anyone want to front the money to buy a few of the lower-hour USAF KC-10s going to the Boneyard, refurbish, and propose a lease-to-buy to the RCAF?

That's actually a good idea. KFS has plenty of experience with the fleet as well.

Looking more and more like a good stop-gap measure.

GCT64 wrote:

https://twitter.com/TheDEWLine/status/1377619688260243460

"Canada has selected only one qualified supplier for the CC-150 tanker replacement. The Airbus A330 MRTT is the only option."