Russian Military Crashes News and Discussion Thread

DH106 · Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:26 am

You can see the plane yawing to the left as the pilot tries to keep hold of it, but then the right wing drops, either by stalling or dropping below Vmc.

c933103 · Tue Aug 17, 2021 1:15 pm

Could it been a replacement to a number of similar sized props outside Russia?

744SPX · Tue Aug 17, 2021 1:30 pm

There are no two ways about it. Between not being able to field proper engines for the SU-57, massive delays to the NK-32-02, the uncompetitive PD-14 and now this, Russian gas turbine technology is in a deplorable state.

estorilm · Tue Aug 17, 2021 1:44 pm

tu204 wrote:
Damn.
They stalled on the right wing. Either that or the controls got damaged from the fire.

Speed seemed consistent, I'd say either the engine failed completely and didn't feather (causing the wing stall/drag) or controls to the starboard ailerons failed and they couldn't maintain adequate control with the asymmetrical thrust. My bet is kinda on a combination of everything, as that final roll rate was pretty extreme; wing stall, non-feathered prop, lack of roll authority / possible aileron failure.

RIP, had to be terrifying.

Phosphorus · Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:33 pm

Il-112 prototype.
https://russianplanes.net/reginfo/89339
Crashed not far from Moscow, with casualties.
Eyewitness video:
https://t.me/breakingmash/27251

Phosphorus · Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:34 pm

Phosphorus wrote:
Il-112 prototype.
https://russianplanes.net/reginfo/89339
Crashed not far from Moscow, with casualties.
Eyewitness video:
https://t.me/breakingmash/27251

Final moments of the flight, caught on camera:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDJ4Ukl5H3Y

Noray · Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:41 pm

After the drop, why did they fly towards that high mountain ridge at all, instead of away from it? Bad flight planning? Navigation error? Communication error? Overconfidence? Or were they, after technical problems, hoping to crash land on the mountain slope like that Transall in Corsica in 1995?

And with the engines placed above and behind the wings to protect them from the water, do they lose power at high angles of attack? Could this have happened as the water was unloaded while the aircraft was climbing uphill?

ThePointblank · Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:38 pm

Aesma wrote:
If you listen to some on this site (and I don't pretend to know better) aerial firefighting is a waste of time.

Aerial firefighting is meant to slow down the rate of movement of a fire, so firefighters on the ground can build control lines to contain the fire. Once the fire is contained, they let it burn itself out.

A very short video that goes over the overview of how fighting wildfires works is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EodxubsO8EI

casinterest · Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:16 am

Phosphorus wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
Il-112 prototype.
https://russianplanes.net/reginfo/89339
Crashed not far from Moscow, with casualties.
Eyewitness video:
https://t.me/breakingmash/27251

Final moments of the flight, caught on camera:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDJ4Ukl5H3Y

They lost an engine, I just wonder if they turned off the wrong one in the cockpit and lost lift.

LyleLanley · Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:36 am

Terrible way to go. RIP bros.

Zeppi · Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:05 am

Deary me, that thing lit up like a blowtorch!
How is that even possible? An engine fire shouldn't be a big deal nowadays, but then this is Russia...

RIP to the crew, what a terrible way to go. Looks like they stood no chance, struggled to keep it level soon after the fire starts an then just roll over

Phosphorus · Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:30 am

casinterest wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
Il-112 prototype.
https://russianplanes.net/reginfo/89339
Crashed not far from Moscow, with casualties.
Eyewitness video:
https://t.me/breakingmash/27251

Final moments of the flight, caught on camera:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDJ4Ukl5H3Y

They lost an engine, I just wonder if they turned off the wrong one in the cockpit and lost lift.

With that fire raging so quickly and so intensely, I would guess loss of the engine lead to uncontained burst of debris that punctured the fuel tank -- and not only the tank, but possibly took out other important stuff. Control surfaces, hydraulics, that sort of thing. Unfeathered prop, raging fire, controls unresponsive, loss of lift from damaged wing and flaps/ailerons... There are too many things going on, that could doom them -- there was no real need for a pilot error of shutting down the wrong engine, to kill them.

estorilm · Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:52 pm

Zeppi wrote:
Deary me, that thing lit up like a blowtorch!
How is that even possible? An engine fire shouldn't be a big deal nowadays, but then this is Russia...

RIP to the crew, what a terrible way to go. Looks like they stood no chance, struggled to keep it level soon after the fire starts an then just roll over

Just a prototype, so you're more likely to get fitment , interference, or pipe fitting problems with the plumbing. I suppose an engine failure could have also damaged fuel lines also - but any disconnect or damage to the primary fuel line after those high pressure pumps will create an absolute torrent of jet-a.

FlapOperator · Wed Aug 18, 2021 3:26 pm

That's a hard one to watch. Thoughts and condolences to the families and colleagues of the crew.

Generally, you've got less than 15 minutes to catastrophic failure or crew incapacitation from the first indication of an onboard fire. Sometimes more, sometimes less. But, if you're on-board, assume you have 15 to egressing the aircraft.

Phosphorus · Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:29 pm

estorilm wrote:
Zeppi wrote:
Deary me, that thing lit up like a blowtorch!
How is that even possible? An engine fire shouldn't be a big deal nowadays, but then this is Russia...

RIP to the crew, what a terrible way to go. Looks like they stood no chance, struggled to keep it level soon after the fire starts an then just roll over

Just a prototype, so you're more likely to get fitment , interference, or pipe fitting problems with the plumbing. I suppose an engine failure could have also damaged fuel lines also - but any disconnect or damage to the primary fuel line after those high pressure pumps will create an absolute torrent of jet-a.

The jury's still out, but engine trouble, for Il-112, is more than "fitment or pipe fitting problems with the plumbing". Indeed, Il-112 came out over two tons overweight, reportedly. As a result, a ruthless weight-reduction exercise was ordered, and I wouldn't be surprised if they took stuff away that they shouldn't have.
The engine itself is a Frankenstein. It is a derivative of an older design, but they needed way more power, also because the plane is overweight (see above). The decision was taken to power it up, to get more hp's. Original designers are Motor-Sich -- Ukrainians. In their infinite wisdom, Russia invaded Ukraine 7 years ago. Getting Motor-Sich to cooperate on the upgrade is thus beyond possible.
Local folks were summoned to the task. Apparently, the engines on that frame are also test articles. Possible consequences of that effort were filmed above.

Phosphorus · Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:21 pm

A Mig-29 crashed in Russia, with casualty.
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/artic ... russia-ria

Phosphorus · Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:49 am

looks like we've failed to list loss of a Su-35:
https://www.fontanka.ru/2021/07/31/70054691/
A Su-35 went into the Sea of Okhotsk on July 31, without casualties.

T54A · Thu Aug 19, 2021 1:26 pm

casinterest wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
Il-112 prototype.
https://russianplanes.net/reginfo/89339
Crashed not far from Moscow, with casualties.
Eyewitness video:
https://t.me/breakingmash/27251

Final moments of the flight, caught on camera:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDJ4Ukl5H3Y

They lost an engine, I just wonder if they turned off the wrong one in the cockpit and lost lift.

Lift doesn’t come from engines, it comes from the wings.

casinterest · Thu Aug 19, 2021 1:37 pm

T54A wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:

Final moments of the flight, caught on camera:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDJ4Ukl5H3Y

They lost an engine, I just wonder if they turned off the wrong one in the cockpit and lost lift.

Lift doesn’t come from engines, it comes from the wings.

Well yes, but you need thrust/Speed to have that lift. They lost the right engine , and while maybe they had more issues with the engine failure as alluded to in the previous post, there have been other incidents due to miscalculations in the cockpit on what occurs during recovery.

All armchair from my side, but if the plane wasn't recoverable, then that will be in the black box investigation.

I looking at the video more, it definitely looks like they lost control and lift on the right side. Did they try to turn, and couldn't come back due to control failures?

Phosphorus · Thu Aug 19, 2021 3:09 pm

casinterest wrote:
T54A wrote:
casinterest wrote:

They lost an engine, I just wonder if they turned off the wrong one in the cockpit and lost lift.

Lift doesn’t come from engines, it comes from the wings.

Well yes, but you need thrust/Speed to have that lift. They lost the right engine , and while maybe they had more issues with the engine failure as alluded to in the previous post, there have been other incidents due to miscalculations in the cockpit on what occurs during recovery.

All armchair from my side, but if the plane wasn't recoverable, then that will be in the black box investigation.

I looking at the video more, it definitely looks like they lost control and lift on the right side. Did they try to turn, and couldn't come back due to control failures?

Don't hold your breath for getting hands on any investigation data, much less black box. A prototype of a military plane crash... They could just as well classify the whole thing.
As they used to say in Soviet military (I wouldn't be surprised if current Russian mil mindset isn't any different): "those who need to know, will be/have already been informed, through appropriate channels".

64947 · Fri Aug 20, 2021 1:32 pm

casinterest wrote:
T54A wrote:
casinterest wrote:

They lost an engine, I just wonder if they turned off the wrong one in the cockpit and lost lift.

Lift doesn’t come from engines, it comes from the wings.

Well yes, but you need thrust/Speed to have that lift. They lost the right engine , and while maybe they had more issues with the engine failure as alluded to in the previous post, there have been other incidents due to miscalculations in the cockpit on what occurs during recovery.

All armchair from my side, but if the plane wasn't recoverable, then that will be in the black box investigation.

I looking at the video more, it definitely looks like they lost control and lift on the right side. Did they try to turn, and couldn't come back due to control failures?

The right engine was clearly producing negative thrust. And they didn't feather the prop. Curious as to "why".

PIC was experienced. Test pilot, Hero of Russia.

T54A · Fri Aug 20, 2021 1:40 pm

tu204 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
T54A wrote:

Lift doesn’t come from engines, it comes from the wings.

Well yes, but you need thrust/Speed to have that lift. They lost the right engine , and while maybe they had more issues with the engine failure as alluded to in the previous post, there have been other incidents due to miscalculations in the cockpit on what occurs during recovery.

All armchair from my side, but if the plane wasn't recoverable, then that will be in the black box investigation.

I looking at the video more, it definitely looks like they lost control and lift on the right side. Did they try to turn, and couldn't come back due to control failures?

The right engine was clearly producing negative thrust. And they didn't feather the prop. Curious as to "why".

PIC was experienced. Test pilot, Hero of Russia.

It is possible the fire effected oil pressure to the prop hub. This could have a negative effect on prop pitch, but I have no idea how this engine prop system works.

Aesma · Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:00 pm

Noray wrote:
After the drop, why did they fly towards that high mountain ridge at all, instead of away from it? Bad flight planning? Navigation error? Communication error? Overconfidence? Or were they, after technical problems, hoping to crash land on the mountain slope like that Transall in Corsica in 1995?

And with the engines placed above and behind the wings to protect them from the water, do they lose power at high angles of attack? Could this have happened as the water was unloaded while the aircraft was climbing uphill?

Yeah I agree that trying to get over that ridge is strange, either there was a mechanical issue that forced them to go towards there, or the pilot thought he was still at the commands of a fighter jet.

Zeppi · Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:44 am

Phosphorus wrote:
estorilm wrote:
Zeppi wrote:
The jury's still out, but engine trouble, for Il-112, is more than "fitment or pipe fitting problems with the plumbing".

Not an engineer, but I'd say so too.
This must have been a catastrophic uncontained failure, ripping apart everything in and around the engine for enough fuel to be present to supply such a severe fire. Maybe it even ruptured the fuel tanks themselves. Otherwise it should not be possible to unfold like this, first sign of a fire and procedures should invoke imediate shutdown of the engine, cutting fuel supply and activating internal extinguishers, snuffing the fire quickly.

Phosphorus · Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:15 pm

Not a crash, but a hull loss, regardless:
https://www.pravda.ru/news/accidents/1632926-mig29/
a MiG-29 has caught fire and burned fully, on the ground, in Astrakhan region, Russia. No casualties

Phosphorus · Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:49 pm

Well... A Su-24 down in Perm region, Russia. No casualties.
https://59.ru/text/incidents/2021/08/27/70103429/
Video of the crash (and presumably two parachutes):
https://59.ru/text/incidents/2021/08/27/70103522/

JerseyFlyer · Thu Jun 02, 2022 11:19 am

Russian authorities have published a rather inconclusive report on the IL-112W prototype crash:

"There is a suspicion that the haste that went with it created the breeding ground for the catastrophe. A circumstance that, in addition to Kommersant, various Russian experts also expressly mention. And perhaps that is the real reason why the final report is firstly not published - and secondly in its conclusion, according to everything that is known, remains as vague as possible."

Some interesting description of the chain of events during the crash.

https://www.aero.de/news-42722/Absturzu ... hluss.html

GDB · Sun Oct 23, 2022 3:25 pm

A long way from the warzone;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8imDVXHmRM8

Phosphorus · Sun Oct 23, 2022 3:51 pm

GDB wrote:
A long way from the warzone;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8imDVXHmRM8

Rumors fly that pilots were incapacitated, possibly by oxygen deprivation, prior to this particular crash. And the plane was fresh from aircraft plant (i.e. newly made, or from overhaul).

In WWII, use of forced labour by Nazis backfired at times. A Soviet soldier mentioned how once a German shell hit their position, but failed to explode. They recovered it, and upon opening, discovered sabotage that would prevent shell from detonating, along with a small note "помогаем как можем" -- "we are helping in whatever way we can".

Just sayin'...

Phosphorus · Fri Dec 02, 2022 1:13 pm

MiG-31 down in Russian Far East, apparently no casualties:
https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/3282 ... -in-russia
Quite positive, as MiG-31 is capable of carrying Kinzhal missiles, and these were known to be deployed against Ukraine.

Phosphorus · Fri Dec 02, 2022 1:17 pm

MiG-31 down in Russian Far East, apparently no casualties:
https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/3282 ... -in-russia
Quite positive, as MiG-31 is capable of carrying Kinzhal missiles, and these were known to be deployed against Ukraine.

Spacepope · Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:50 pm

Phosphorus wrote:
MiG-31 down in Russian Far East, apparently no casualties:
https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/3282 ... -in-russia
Quite positive, as MiG-31 is capable of carrying Kinzhal missiles, and these were known to be deployed against Ukraine.

As far as anyone can tell, that's the 4th MiG-31 crash this year.

GDB · Sat Dec 03, 2022 5:17 pm

Some more on this latest crash;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7G10tITR2E

GDB · Fri Dec 16, 2022 4:38 pm

A factory fresh Mi-17 had an issue, it didn't go well;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2hGwyVxF70

Phosphorus · Tue Jul 04, 2023 9:09 pm

cross-post from another thread:

747classic wrote:
A Russian AF Mig-31 crashed during a training flight in Kamchatka Peninsula, Russia, and the crew is being searched.

Original uploaded by @southpatt at twitter, see : https://twitter.com/southpatt/status/16 ... 0323353600

Original here:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1481029#p23866385

GDB · Fri Jul 28, 2023 12:53 pm

In the East, a Mi-26 has a ground accident;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIy4y5NkC_c

Insert clown music of your choice.

wingman · Fri Jul 28, 2023 1:43 pm

Funniest video in this thread possibly since its inception. "...to be fair to the pilot it must've been very hard to see the giant red and white pole right in front of him". Nothing beats deadpan delivery in this situation.

Russia was effectively useless at anything beyond sucking gas out of the ground before the war and now anyone with a shred of neural activity has hightailed it or died fighting Nazi vampires. This pilot is what they're left with.

bennett123 · Fri Jul 28, 2023 6:05 pm

One helicopter that will not be used in Ukraine.

flyingturtle · Fri Jul 28, 2023 11:33 pm

GDB wrote:
In the East, a Mi-26 has a ground accident;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIy4y5NkC_c

Insert clown music of your choice.

Well, the pilot was told to attack the Poles... and it came at a terrible price...

GDB · Tue Aug 15, 2023 3:48 pm

L-39 down in Russia;

https://mil.in.ua/en/news/russian-train ... -39-crash/

GDB · Tue Aug 29, 2023 4:44 pm

Mi-8 helicopter down;
https://mil.in.ua/en/news/media-a-helic ... t-survive/

Crew reported lost, well inside Russia.

GDB · Fri Sep 01, 2023 5:45 pm

KA-52 down in reported non combat loss;
https://mil.in.ua/en/news/russians-repo ... f-a-ka-52/

With details of others lost including by fratricide.

GDB · Wed Sep 13, 2023 12:17 pm

SU-24M down in Russia;
https://mil.in.ua/en/news/su-24m-tactic ... in-russia/

https://defence-blog.com/russian-su-24- ... lling-two/

During training flight.

GDB · Wed Sep 20, 2023 10:05 am

This time it's a SU-34 down in an accident;
https://defence-blog.com/russian-su-34- ... zh-region/

One less to be deployed.

747classic · Sat Oct 21, 2023 6:23 am

A Russian AF IL-76 crashed in Dushanbe, Tajikistan.
According to the source (Telegram/Fighterbomber) the engines caught fire during the takeoff phase. Crew survived, aircraft a write off.

Uploaded by Tendar at Twitter (X) : https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1715442232709328929

GDB · Wed Jan 17, 2024 6:29 pm

Mi-8 damaged after an emergency landing;

https://mil.in.ua/en/news/russian-mi-8m ... sk-region/

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