Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
Futureavaitor
Topic Author
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:22 am

Marine core fighter pilot?

Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:10 am

I am 16 and working on my ppl and exploring my options for being a fighter pilot. It is a dream of mine to fly the f/18 and I have the upMost respect for the marines. How long is the minimum commitment for marine fighter pilot? What is their typical schedule over a few years? Is the fighter position guaranteed? Do you have to be smart?
 
User avatar
LyleLanley
Posts: 161
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:33 pm

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:18 am

Awesome April fool’s prank!
"I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrook, and, by gum, it put them on the map!"
 
Futureavaitor
Topic Author
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:22 am

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:54 am

:(
 
Ozair
Posts: 5169
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:41 am

Futureavaitor wrote:
I am 16 and working on my ppl and exploring my options for being a fighter pilot. It is a dream of mine to fly the f/18 and I have the upMost respect for the marines. How long is the minimum commitment for marine fighter pilot? What is their typical schedule over a few years? Is the fighter position guaranteed? Do you have to be smart?

If you're serious then there are other sites that will provide better info than here, for example the fighter pilot podcast Facebook page has a subpage just for these types of questions as well as a whole lot of answers. I suggest you look there first before starting multiple threads here where the focus isn't on military pilot recruitment.
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8928
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:39 am

I'd start by learning how to spell Marine Corps properly

Go to airwarriors.com. Not always 100% accurate info but much better than asking here.

In short:

Depending on your commissioning source, aviation isn't guaranteed, but for the USMC, unless things have drastically changed, there are ways to go in with a guaranteed flight contract

Actually being medically qualified is not a guarantee, you definitely need to look into that

As far as I know, you'll make it through your commissioning source, the Basic School (TBS, learn basic Marine Officer skills,) and academics in Pensacola (fairly intensive, not a huge washout rate but it's definitely a threat, that is where the recent shooting was BTW)

Then you'll finally start sim and flight training. With everything you've done already, time between phases, and general delays in the pipeline, you may already have been in 12-18 months, sometimes longer

Flight school, again, doesn't have a huge washout rate, but it is tough and failing out is definitely a threat. You'll train in the T-6B at NAS Corpus Christi or Whiting which will take 6-9 months depending on a lot of things

Now here is the part you probably won't like but hear it now: depending on how well you do and the needs of the Marine Corps, you will select, or I should say, the Corps will select for you. Getting jets is tough. Not impossible, but there are plenty of people that want it that don't have the grades (you need to have a 50 NSS, basically top 50%, minimum, to even qualify, and realistically high 50s or above NSS, top like 30-40%, to be competitive) or get the grades but still don't get jets (too many students in the jet pipeline, other platforms need bodies, grades not competitive enough, etc.)

No, there is no way to go in with a guaranteed jet spot. No, there is no way to improve your odds or whatever besides doing very well, and even that may not be enough. I know a lot of people search, in vain, for a way, but there is none.

Whatever you select, you'll go to advanced where you learn another aircraft (TH-57 or whatever the replacement will be if you get helos, T-44 if you get KC-130s, both if you get MV-22s, and the T-45 if you get jets.) That'll take you another 6 or more months unless you get jets, in which it'll be much longer. Like 12-18 months maybe? The pipeline is so backed up it's hard to say. Even when it's not backed up it takes longer to train you for jets

Once you finally wing you'll owe the Corps 8 years. So in total, you're probably looking at 10 years if you go through flight school very quickly but probably closer to 11 years or even longer if you have delays.

If you really want jets...

The Navy is similar. Many want jets but many don't get them

The Coast Guard doesn't have jets

The Army doesn't have jets

The Air Force does but I'm pretty sure it's a similar process, many will try but not everyone will get jets

Your best bet may be an Air Force Guard or Reserve squadron. You actually apply to the squadron and if you are picked up by an F-16 squadron, congrats, you're an F-16 pilot as long as you can make it through training. It can be difficult getting picked up and I couldn't even tell you where to start.



In the meantime, do well in everything you do. Sounds cliche but get good grades, be involved in sports, leadership, etc. I don't want to discourage you, far from it, but it takes a lot of commitment and drive to get what you want. Nothing wrong with having the dream of being a fighter pilot but go in with the mindset of being a Marine Officer first and foremost. If the Corps lets you fly, excellent. If you get jets, even better

Good luck. Like I said, airwarriors.com is the place to start
 
User avatar
LyleLanley
Posts: 161
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:33 pm

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:14 pm

You gents have given great info as always, but considering the OP has misspelled aviator in his own user name, can't spell Marine Corps, and thinks the Guard flies the "f/18", it is my "upMost" guess that he's trolling.
"I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrook, and, by gum, it put them on the map!"
 
Futureavaitor
Topic Author
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:22 am

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:44 pm

LyleLanley wrote:
You gents have given great info as always, but considering the OP has misspelled aviator in his own user name, can't spell Marine Corps, and thinks the Guard flies the "f/18", it is my "upMost" guess that he's trolling.



There’s a reason I asked if you have to be smart.....
 
Futureavaitor
Topic Author
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:22 am

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:46 pm

DeltaMD90 wrote:
I'd start by learning how to spell Marine Corps properly

Go to airwarriors.com. Not always 100% accurate info but much better than asking here.

In short:

Depending on your commissioning source, aviation isn't guaranteed, but for the USMC, unless things have drastically changed, there are ways to go in with a guaranteed flight contract

Actually being medically qualified is not a guarantee, you definitely need to look into that

As far as I know, you'll make it through your commissioning source, the Basic School (TBS, learn basic Marine Officer skills,) and academics in Pensacola (fairly intensive, not a huge washout rate but it's definitely a threat, that is where the recent shooting was BTW)

Then you'll finally start sim and flight training. With everything you've done already, time between phases, and general delays in the pipeline, you may already have been in 12-18 months, sometimes longer

Flight school, again, doesn't have a huge washout rate, but it is tough and failing out is definitely a threat. You'll train in the T-6B at NAS Corpus Christi or Whiting which will take 6-9 months depending on a lot of things

Now here is the part you probably won't like but hear it now: depending on how well you do and the needs of the Marine Corps, you will select, or I should say, the Corps will select for you. Getting jets is tough. Not impossible, but there are plenty of people that want it that don't have the grades (you need to have a 50 NSS, basically top 50%, minimum, to even qualify, and realistically high 50s or above NSS, top like 30-40%, to be competitive) or get the grades but still don't get jets (too many students in the jet pipeline, other platforms need bodies, grades not competitive enough, etc.)

No, there is no way to go in with a guaranteed jet spot. No, there is no way to improve your odds or whatever besides doing very well, and even that may not be enough. I know a lot of people search, in vain, for a way, but there is none.

Whatever you select, you'll go to advanced where you learn another aircraft (TH-57 or whatever the replacement will be if you get helos, T-44 if you get KC-130s, both if you get MV-22s, and the T-45 if you get jets.) That'll take you another 6 or more months unless you get jets, in which it'll be much longer. Like 12-18 months maybe? The pipeline is so backed up it's hard to say. Even when it's not backed up it takes longer to train you for jets

Once you finally wing you'll owe the Corps 8 years. So in total, you're probably looking at 10 years if you go through flight school very quickly but probably closer to 11 years or even longer if you have delays.

If you really want jets...

The Navy is similar. Many want jets but many don't get them

The Coast Guard doesn't have jets

The Army doesn't have jets

The Air Force does but I'm pretty sure it's a similar process, many will try but not everyone will get jets

Your best bet may be an Air Force Guard or Reserve squadron. You actually apply to the squadron and if you are picked up by an F-16 squadron, congrats, you're an F-16 pilot as long as you can make it through training. It can be difficult getting picked up and I couldn't even tell you where to start.



In the meantime, do well in everything you do. Sounds cliche but get good grades, be involved in sports, leadership, etc. I don't want to discourage you, far from it, but it takes a lot of commitment and drive to get what you want. Nothing wrong with having the dream of being a fighter pilot but go in with the mindset of being a Marine Officer first and foremost. If the Corps lets you fly, excellent. If you get jets, even better

Good luck. Like I said, airwarriors.com is the place to start


Thank you, your information helped a lot I really don’t know anything about the military at all so you were a big help
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8928
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:00 pm

Futureavaitor wrote:
LyleLanley wrote:
You gents have given great info as always, but considering the OP has misspelled aviator in his own user name, can't spell Marine Corps, and thinks the Guard flies the "f/18", it is my "upMost" guess that he's trolling.



There’s a reason I asked if you have to be smart.....

Smart is subjective, you need to be fairly smart but most importantly, you need to work hard. The smartest person won't make it through flight school if they don't want to be there. But also, many driven and hard working people wash out

You also need to have good judgement, very important. A lot of it is learned but a certain level of it you either have or you don't. Again, many smart, hardworking people "just don't get it" and wash out, which is sad. But death isn't going to take it easy on someone just because they try hard, it's a dangerous business
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8928
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:03 pm

Futureavaitor wrote:
DeltaMD90 wrote:
I'd start by learning how to spell Marine Corps properly

Go to airwarriors.com. Not always 100% accurate info but much better than asking here.

In short:

Depending on your commissioning source, aviation isn't guaranteed, but for the USMC, unless things have drastically changed, there are ways to go in with a guaranteed flight contract

Actually being medically qualified is not a guarantee, you definitely need to look into that

As far as I know, you'll make it through your commissioning source, the Basic School (TBS, learn basic Marine Officer skills,) and academics in Pensacola (fairly intensive, not a huge washout rate but it's definitely a threat, that is where the recent shooting was BTW)

Then you'll finally start sim and flight training. With everything you've done already, time between phases, and general delays in the pipeline, you may already have been in 12-18 months, sometimes longer

Flight school, again, doesn't have a huge washout rate, but it is tough and failing out is definitely a threat. You'll train in the T-6B at NAS Corpus Christi or Whiting which will take 6-9 months depending on a lot of things

Now here is the part you probably won't like but hear it now: depending on how well you do and the needs of the Marine Corps, you will select, or I should say, the Corps will select for you. Getting jets is tough. Not impossible, but there are plenty of people that want it that don't have the grades (you need to have a 50 NSS, basically top 50%, minimum, to even qualify, and realistically high 50s or above NSS, top like 30-40%, to be competitive) or get the grades but still don't get jets (too many students in the jet pipeline, other platforms need bodies, grades not competitive enough, etc.)

No, there is no way to go in with a guaranteed jet spot. No, there is no way to improve your odds or whatever besides doing very well, and even that may not be enough. I know a lot of people search, in vain, for a way, but there is none.

Whatever you select, you'll go to advanced where you learn another aircraft (TH-57 or whatever the replacement will be if you get helos, T-44 if you get KC-130s, both if you get MV-22s, and the T-45 if you get jets.) That'll take you another 6 or more months unless you get jets, in which it'll be much longer. Like 12-18 months maybe? The pipeline is so backed up it's hard to say. Even when it's not backed up it takes longer to train you for jets

Once you finally wing you'll owe the Corps 8 years. So in total, you're probably looking at 10 years if you go through flight school very quickly but probably closer to 11 years or even longer if you have delays.

If you really want jets...

The Navy is similar. Many want jets but many don't get them

The Coast Guard doesn't have jets

The Army doesn't have jets

The Air Force does but I'm pretty sure it's a similar process, many will try but not everyone will get jets

Your best bet may be an Air Force Guard or Reserve squadron. You actually apply to the squadron and if you are picked up by an F-16 squadron, congrats, you're an F-16 pilot as long as you can make it through training. It can be difficult getting picked up and I couldn't even tell you where to start.



In the meantime, do well in everything you do. Sounds cliche but get good grades, be involved in sports, leadership, etc. I don't want to discourage you, far from it, but it takes a lot of commitment and drive to get what you want. Nothing wrong with having the dream of being a fighter pilot but go in with the mindset of being a Marine Officer first and foremost. If the Corps lets you fly, excellent. If you get jets, even better

Good luck. Like I said, airwarriors.com is the place to start


Thank you, your information helped a lot I really don’t know anything about the military at all so you were a big help

I suggest you go to a college with an ROTC program. ROTC is far from the real military but you can test the waters a bit. You can also get scholarships but eventually you're gonna have to commit to keep the money flowing

Get a real degree too. If the military doesn't work out for you, your general studies degree you were using to get your commission is not gonna get you very far
 
Futureavaitor
Topic Author
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:22 am

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:18 am

DeltaMD90 wrote:
Futureavaitor wrote:
DeltaMD90 wrote:
I'd start by learning how to spell Marine Corps properly

Go to airwarriors.com. Not always 100% accurate info but much better than asking here.

In short:

Depending on your commissioning source, aviation isn't guaranteed, but for the USMC, unless things have drastically changed, there are ways to go in with a guaranteed flight contract

Actually being medically qualified is not a guarantee, you definitely need to look into that

As far as I know, you'll make it through your commissioning source, the Basic School (TBS, learn basic Marine Officer skills,) and academics in Pensacola (fairly intensive, not a huge washout rate but it's definitely a threat, that is where the recent shooting was BTW)

Then you'll finally start sim and flight training. With everything you've done already, time between phases, and general delays in the pipeline, you may already have been in 12-18 months, sometimes longer

Flight school, again, doesn't have a huge washout rate, but it is tough and failing out is definitely a threat. You'll train in the T-6B at NAS Corpus Christi or Whiting which will take 6-9 months depending on a lot of things

Now here is the part you probably won't like but hear it now: depending on how well you do and the needs of the Marine Corps, you will select, or I should say, the Corps will select for you. Getting jets is tough. Not impossible, but there are plenty of people that want it that don't have the grades (you need to have a 50 NSS, basically top 50%, minimum, to even qualify, and realistically high 50s or above NSS, top like 30-40%, to be competitive) or get the grades but still don't get jets (too many students in the jet pipeline, other platforms need bodies, grades not competitive enough, etc.)

No, there is no way to go in with a guaranteed jet spot. No, there is no way to improve your odds or whatever besides doing very well, and even that may not be enough. I know a lot of people search, in vain, for a way, but there is none.

Whatever you select, you'll go to advanced where you learn another aircraft (TH-57 or whatever the replacement will be if you get helos, T-44 if you get KC-130s, both if you get MV-22s, and the T-45 if you get jets.) That'll take you another 6 or more months unless you get jets, in which it'll be much longer. Like 12-18 months maybe? The pipeline is so backed up it's hard to say. Even when it's not backed up it takes longer to train you for jets

Once you finally wing you'll owe the Corps 8 years. So in total, you're probably looking at 10 years if you go through flight school very quickly but probably closer to 11 years or even longer if you have delays.

If you really want jets...

The Navy is similar. Many want jets but many don't get them

The Coast Guard doesn't have jets

The Army doesn't have jets

The Air Force does but I'm pretty sure it's a similar process, many will try but not everyone will get jets

Your best bet may be an Air Force Guard or Reserve squadron. You actually apply to the squadron and if you are picked up by an F-16 squadron, congrats, you're an F-16 pilot as long as you can make it through training. It can be difficult getting picked up and I couldn't even tell you where to start.



In the meantime, do well in everything you do. Sounds cliche but get good grades, be involved in sports, leadership, etc. I don't want to discourage you, far from it, but it takes a lot of commitment and drive to get what you want. Nothing wrong with having the dream of being a fighter pilot but go in with the mindset of being a Marine Officer first and foremost. If the Corps lets you fly, excellent. If you get jets, even better

Good luck. Like I said, airwarriors.com is the place to start


Thank you, your information helped a lot I really don’t know anything about the military at all so you were a big help

I suggest you go to a college with an ROTC program. ROTC is far from the real military but you can test the waters a bit. You can also get scholarships but eventually you're gonna have to commit to keep the money flowing

Get a real degree too. If the military doesn't work out for you, your general studies degree you were using to get your commission is not gonna get you very far



The real reason I wanted to do reserves and not active duty is because ever since I could remember I wanted to be a major airline pilot. I never took the time to look into fighters and ofc in the airlines seniority is everything. I also heard military pilots hardly fly at all I’m not sure if that is a rumor or not. Anyway now that I’m older I think the reserves can be an excellent option for me. Thanks for all y’all’s help.
 
Reddevil556
Posts: 216
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:09 pm

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:08 am

A good friend of mine just left pax flying and switched to Fedex. He stated that one of the best differences is that cargo doesn’t complain. Also he is making way more flying 763-ERFs
Jumped out of: C130H, C130J, C17A, C212, CH47, and UH60. Bucket list: C160, A400, C2
 
Reddevil556
Posts: 216
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:09 pm

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:20 pm

Replying to both topics here. If you want “action” as a pilot then rotary wing with the Army is your best bet. Navy, AF, and USMC pilots may get the chance to drop some bombs here and there...but that’s not really action. Maybe in a peer to peer conflict there could be some air to air stuff. Also it appears the USMC may be doing some reorganization of assets. In my opinion there is nothing the USMC can offer that the Navy can’t as a fixed wing asset. Never understood the exact role for fixed wing USMC fighter aircraft. I think the USMC should be mostly rotary wing like the Army. Also if you want hours the Army is a good option because they still have Warrant Officer pilots...the only thing they do is fly. They don’t move from command positions or leadership positions. They are a unique beast. Just my two cents
Jumped out of: C130H, C130J, C17A, C212, CH47, and UH60. Bucket list: C160, A400, C2
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8928
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:10 pm

Futureavaitor wrote:
DeltaMD90 wrote:
Futureavaitor wrote:

Thank you, your information helped a lot I really don’t know anything about the military at all so you were a big help

I suggest you go to a college with an ROTC program. ROTC is far from the real military but you can test the waters a bit. You can also get scholarships but eventually you're gonna have to commit to keep the money flowing

Get a real degree too. If the military doesn't work out for you, your general studies degree you were using to get your commission is not gonna get you very far



The real reason I wanted to do reserves and not active duty is because ever since I could remember I wanted to be a major airline pilot. I never took the time to look into fighters and ofc in the airlines seniority is everything. I also heard military pilots hardly fly at all I’m not sure if that is a rumor or not. Anyway now that I’m older I think the reserves can be an excellent option for me. Thanks for all y’all’s help.

If you want to be a major airline pilot, I'd start with that and work backwards. I'd ask that question of people, what is your best bet to get there given your age? I really don't know the best course of action for someone your age. Unfortunately, timing is a huge part of the equation. Hiring will definitely be a lot lot less by the time you get there.

Without thinking much about it, maybe work VERY hard and get college done early. I did college in just over 2 years, but I was able to do a lot of AP courses and CLEPed others. I had a very easy degree that really won't help me much (if I deviate from my path.)

Maybe then go to the regionals and work up that way? Do the Air Guard or Reserves on the side for the adventure?

Military pilots not flying a lot? That is subjective. They definitely don't fly as much as civilian pilots. But military pilots need much much less time to get hired by a major (take a look at the stats if you can get your hands on it, I saw something a couple years ago that said the average military hire had like 2000 hours and the average civilian guy was around 5000. For DL. Maybe those weren't the exact numbers but the difference in hours was huge).

That doesn't mean civilian pilots are worse, it's just a different type of flying. Military pilots train on very capable aircraft and are in much more dynamic situations. That experience adds up, even with less hours overall.

Don't forget though, the military has a time commitment. A long one. Depending how you do it with the regionals, you may just fly fly fly fly and get hired. Hard to say, especially now with all the uncertainty

Don't discount the rest of military aviation. Jets are the sexy choice, no doubt, but you can have a rewarding and fulfilling career flying just about anything in the military. I'm sure this forum is full of people flying non tactical military aircraft. And I'm sure they'll tell you they had a blast

Sort your priorities, what is your end goal? Start at the end goal and work back, what will get you there fastest and with the greatest chance of success? Is it the major airlines? Jets in the military? Airlines but with adventure as well (airlines plus reserves)?
 
johns624
Posts: 2737
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:17 pm

Just to re-empathize---you have to have a bachelor's degree to be a pilot in the USAF, USMC, USN and all the American majors.
 
Woodreau
Posts: 1901
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 6:44 am

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:35 am

Reddevil556 wrote:
Replying to both topics here. If you want “action” as a pilot then rotary wing with the Army is your best bet. Navy, AF, and USMC pilots may get the chance to drop some bombs here and there...but that’s not really action. Maybe in a peer to peer conflict there could be some air to air stuff. Also it appears the USMC may be doing some reorganization of assets. In my opinion there is nothing the USMC can offer that the Navy can’t as a fixed wing asset. Never understood the exact role for fixed wing USMC fighter aircraft. I think the USMC should be mostly rotary wing like the Army. Also if you want hours the Army is a good option because they still have Warrant Officer pilots...the only thing they do is fly. They don’t move from command positions or leadership positions. They are a unique beast. Just my two cents


The only reason why Marine Corps fixed wing exists is because Marines will never forget the Navy abandoned them at Guadalcanal to the Japanese, and even today, they make a point to remind Navy of that fact every chance they get.

Marine aviation exists to support the Marine infantry division. The Marine division doesnt have to ask for Air Force or navy for close air support, unlike the Army which relies on the Air Force for close air support. It’s already organic to the Marine ground unit.

Every Marine Corps aviator (and every Marine officer for that matter) has to play Infantry first before they’re allowed to go to flight school. So that they remember that perspective when they’re flying in support. Even after getting their wings and flying as an aviator, most Marine Corps aviators end up getting assigned to an infantry unit for a disassociated sea tour to serve as a liaison between the ground unit and the assigned aviation asset.



If OP is 16 now, the I hope he doesn’t have his heart set on the F-18. It might not be there by the time he or she commissions. It’ll either be sunsetted and only the f-35 will be around or the f-18s are still holding on, flying with bailing wire and chewing gum, trying to figure out how to keep extending the lifetime of a timed out airframe, since the Marine Corps is the red headed step child of the Navy and has always made do with less and hand me downs from the Navy - which is where the Marine Corps have acquired all their currently flying f-18s. The navy didn’t want them anymore after the Navy got the super hornet, so they gave all of their legacy c/d Hornets to the Marine Corps, to replace the Marines’ even older A/B f-18s.
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
rfields5421
Posts: 6266
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:13 am

My older first cousin was a USMC F-4 GIB in Vietnam in 1968-69.

He told me many things about why the Marines needed their own close air support. His basic one which he still tells to this day.

Do you know the difference between the Marine Corps definition of Close Air Support, and the Air Force and Navy definition?

About 10,000 feet.


USMC CAS pilots were supposed to have eyes on the men on the ground before releasing weapons or firing.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
Reddevil556
Posts: 216
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:09 pm

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:31 pm

Woodreau wrote:
Reddevil556 wrote:
Replying to both topics here. If you want “action” as a pilot then rotary wing with the Army is your best bet. Navy, AF, and USMC pilots may get the chance to drop some bombs here and there...but that’s not really action. Maybe in a peer to peer conflict there could be some air to air stuff. Also it appears the USMC may be doing some reorganization of assets. In my opinion there is nothing the USMC can offer that the Navy can’t as a fixed wing asset. Never understood the exact role for fixed wing USMC fighter aircraft. I think the USMC should be mostly rotary wing like the Army. Also if you want hours the Army is a good option because they still have Warrant Officer pilots...the only thing they do is fly. They don’t move from command positions or leadership positions. They are a unique beast. Just my two cents


The only reason why Marine Corps fixed wing exists is because Marines will never forget the Navy abandoned them at Guadalcanal to the Japanese, and even today, they make a point to remind Navy of that fact every chance they get.

Marine aviation exists to support the Marine infantry division. The Marine division doesnt have to ask for Air Force or navy for close air support, unlike the Army which relies on the Air Force for close air support. It’s already organic to the Marine ground unit.

Every Marine Corps aviator (and every Marine officer for that matter) has to play Infantry first before they’re allowed to go to flight school. So that they remember that perspective when they’re flying in support. Even after getting their wings and flying as an aviator, most Marine Corps aviators end up getting assigned to an infantry unit for a disassociated sea tour to serve as a liaison between the ground unit and the assigned aviation asset.



If OP is 16 now, the I hope he doesn’t have his heart set on the F-18. It might not be there by the time he or she commissions. It’ll either be sunsetted and only the f-35 will be around or the f-18s are still holding on, flying with bailing wire and chewing gum, trying to figure out how to keep extending the lifetime of a timed out airframe, since the Marine Corps is the red headed step child of the Navy and has always made do with less and hand me downs from the Navy - which is where the Marine Corps have acquired all their currently flying f-18s. The navy didn’t want them anymore after the Navy got the super hornet, so they gave all of their legacy c/d Hornets to the Marine Corps, to replace the Marines’ even older A/B f-18s.


Army has its own dedicated CAS, it’s just rotary wing. The Army also have significantly more aircraft than Marines. The situation you describe is in perfect situations. In the joint operations (neither the Army or Marines conduct operations 100% independently anymore) world the most likely scenario is that ground units have a JTAC (joint tactical air controller) that is trained to talk to CAS assets from all branches along with calling naval gunfire and ground bases artillery. Recently we operate with a JTAC and a forward observer organic to a ground unit. One deals with the air assets and the other deals with indirect fires. They both cross train to he competent in both tasks.

In places like Afghanistan and Iraq you never knew who might be flying, but they all supported each other. There was no branch nonsense when it came to CAS. Air Force probably did more CAS for the Marines than the Navy or Marines in both theaters. Heck we had RAF Tornados, Belgian F16s, and US rotary. In the end grunts don’t care who is dropped or shooting ordinance and the flyboys don’t care what unit needs help on the ground. If the Marines have a so called chip on their shoulder about a battle that happened over 75 years ago then I have never noticed it.
Jumped out of: C130H, C130J, C17A, C212, CH47, and UH60. Bucket list: C160, A400, C2
 
JohnM
Posts: 395
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2001 12:35 pm

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:56 pm

Right on .556!
 
Futureavaitor
Topic Author
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:22 am

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:53 am

Does anyone know if the A-10 will really be retired or if it’s still going to hang on for awhile?
 
Reddevil556
Posts: 216
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:09 pm

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:23 pm

Futureavaitor wrote:
Does anyone know if the A-10 will really be retired or if it’s still going to hang on for awhile?


It will be around for at least 10-15 more years. The link I attached isn’t the best source.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ ... ier-104012
Jumped out of: C130H, C130J, C17A, C212, CH47, and UH60. Bucket list: C160, A400, C2
 
rfields5421
Posts: 6266
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:43 pm

Futureavaitor wrote:
Does anyone know if the A-10 will really be retired or if it’s still going to hang on for awhile?


In early 1991, I was at an event where the Commander of SAC was speaking in Kansas City. This was at the time when the first BRAC was under discussion. He was ask about the A-10, and he said they would be out of the Air Force soon. The USAF didn't really have a mission requirement for the aircraft.

Well, he was the head of Strategic Air Command, been in SAC almost his whole career. Later after we were getting all the Flag Officers settled at the hotel, he off hand said to me "What do you think of the A-10 Senior Chief?"

Told him that I have never observed them in action, but some Marines I knew liked them, and some Army folks. My duties at the time put me in contact with people at England AFB in Alexandria, LA - a major A-10 base and on the chopping block. Also nearby Fort Polk. Told him the Army guys were concerned about the possible loss of the aircraft.

"Why don't you just paint them green and give them to the Army."

He did not like my answer. But I already had my retirement papers in hand, and didn't really care.

He's been gone from USAF at least 20 year or more years. I've been retired from the Navy for 28 years.

The A-10 is still in the USAF inventory.

I'm not betting against it, but it is an old bird, but I would not be surprised to see some A-10 squadrons replaced with F-35 squadrons. However, that could take 10 years to happen.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
Futureavaitor
Topic Author
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:22 am

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Mon Apr 06, 2020 6:49 am

For ANG and AFRC how much are they making per sortie or drill?
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 5664
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:23 pm

It’s complicated. Inactive training periods of 4 hours are 1/30th of a month’s base and incentive pay. An active duty DAY (any part of or the whole 24 hours) is 1/30th of a month’s base and incentive pay plus 1/30th of allowances, BAS and BAH, but without any housing locality pay. Got it? That’s for Category A reservists.

Now you have 48 UTA periods (traditional drill weekend, four periods per month). Plus flyers get the same number of Additional Flying Training Periods (AFTP) annually for flight specific trading, 12 of which maybe ground training. Plus 15 days of Annual Tour, which is active duty. Additional missions are flown in AD days. That AFRC or ANG, the Navy, being the Navy, might be different. There’s also Category B and E who get lesser amounts, even retirement points only, no pay.

The traditional gouge has been Guard pays the monthly mortgage.

https://www.militaryrates.com/military- ... o1_o5_2020
 
JohnM
Posts: 395
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2001 12:35 pm

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:45 pm

Hey GalaxyFlyer, when did drill pay start including BAH & BAS? I retired in 2005, at that time it was 1/30th of a month's active duty pay plus incentives (flight pay,etc). I've been AD, Guard, and AFRES, that is a new one to me. Type II BAH for the first 30 days of active duty, then full BAH.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 5664
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:53 pm

It doesn’t and I didn’t say it did, just “pay”; “allowances” come with AD pay. That’s when I retired, too.
 
Futureavaitor
Topic Author
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:22 am

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:22 am

If there a way you can go from ANG to AFRC after your commitment is done with ANG?
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 5664
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:01 am

Yes, I’ve had ANG pilots come over to my AFRC unit and had pilots leave to go to an ANG unit and I’ve brought USN and USMC pilots from AD. I’ve known long-time ANG pilots who moved to AFRC units for promotions and vice versa. There’s opportunities to go from ANG or AFRC to AD for a tour. I even met an ANG pilot on AD as a DAO in South Africa.
Last edited by GalaxyFlyer on Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Futureavaitor
Topic Author
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:22 am

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:02 am

Do you have to wait for your commitment to be up to switch?
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 5664
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:04 am

I was editing, not necessarily, but it’s better if you do. The one clear reason is change of career/ employer creating a need to move. Then, the nearby unit has to take you as an “overman” position on the manning document. After an accident, I was “non ejection seat only on the medical, moved over to a transport squadron. ANG to AFRES.
 
Futureavaitor
Topic Author
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:22 am

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:08 am

If you switch aircraft or if you switch units will you have to do “seasoning” again?
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 5664
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:24 am

No, you go to the formal course, then sort up to the unit and budget. I went to Altus and when I got back we were still in conversion from C-130s and EAL was on strike so I did a year training tour, but not necessary. If it’s an entirely new mission, they’ll want you to get to mission ready status which takes some time.
 
Futureavaitor
Topic Author
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:22 am

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:52 pm

Is it possible to transfer from the AFRC to the navy reserves?
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 5664
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:02 pm

That might be harder, I’ve only heard of few USAF to USN conversions and that was AD. Navy Reserve isn’t a good deal, anyway. Very few promotion opportunities, you’ll do at least one tour points only, not a big community of exclusively USN pilots.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 4094
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:45 pm

While exceptionally rare we had a pilot at our airline that had joined the Marines at 17, and got in their MARCAD program at 19, He went to fly 450+ missions in Vietnam in the A4 and later did a tour as a FAC in the Birddog. Later joined the Marine Corps, Navy Reserves, and finally the USAF reserves flying his last combat mission pver Bosnia at the old age of 54 flying the A10. Total years of service 39 and retired from the Marine Corps, US Navy and USAF. Flew the A4, F8, A7 and A10.

Truly a fighter pilots wet dream
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 5664
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:33 pm

Wow!
 
BravoOne
Posts: 4094
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:41 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Wow!


http://vintageflights.com/pilots/jim-nomad-lawrence/

As I recall one of those Bosnia sorties he took a SAM in the side of his A10 fuselage that did not go off. The guys on the ground were excited to get it when he landed as it had some new technology that they wanted to research.
 
CWizard
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:50 pm

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:17 pm

As previously mentioned, a Marine Corps Officer is first and foremost an Infantry Officer.
And, again, as previously mentioned, as an Infantry Officer he knows that "ground cover" means getting close enough to pick up bush with your tail hook.
Also as a Marine or Navy fighter pilot you will be carrier qualified.
A good friend, as a young man, was considering a career as a Navy pilot. His family had connections and he was given a tour of an aircraft carrier. He said he didn't say a word out loud, but as he was walking around the deck he was thinking, "Land on this? At night? During a storm?"
He joined the Air Force. True story.
:)
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8928
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:33 pm

CWizard wrote:
Also as a Marine or Navy fighter pilot you will be carrier qualified.

This is not true, only tailhook selectees will get Carrier Qualed.

Helo, C-130, P-8, EP-3, E-6, and V-22 pilots do not get that qual. Some will ultimately land on carriers (MH-60s for example) but it's a normal helo landing, not the difficult ones requiring a tailhook (though landing a 60 on a small boy during a high sea state takes its own skill)

Only your F-18, E-2/C-2, and some (not all, I don't think) of F-35 pilots CQ

Doing a carrier landing is difficult. Roughly speaking, 50% of flight students don't even get the grades to qualify for the tailhook route, and in reality, you require higher scores than that to be competitive
 
CWizard
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:50 pm

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Wed Apr 15, 2020 2:53 pm

DeltaMD90 wrote:
CWizard wrote:
Also as a Marine or Navy fighter pilot you will be carrier qualified.

This is not true, only tailhook selectees will get Carrier Qualed.............
...................Helo, C-130, P-8, EP-3, E-6, and V-22 pilots do not get that qual.


Did I not say fighter pilot?
Not one of the aircraft you listed is a fighter.
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8928
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:57 am

CWizard wrote:
DeltaMD90 wrote:
CWizard wrote:
Also as a Marine or Navy fighter pilot you will be carrier qualified.

This is not true, only tailhook selectees will get Carrier Qualed.............
...................Helo, C-130, P-8, EP-3, E-6, and V-22 pilots do not get that qual.


Did I not say fighter pilot?
Not one of the aircraft you listed is a fighter.

My bad! You did indeed

I wonder if the VTOL F-35s will CQ in the future. I don't know if the USMC will have any carrier based aircraft that'll use a hook
 
Ozair
Posts: 5169
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: Marine core fighter pilot?

Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:35 am

DeltaMD90 wrote:
CWizard wrote:
DeltaMD90 wrote:
This is not true, only tailhook selectees will get Carrier Qualed.............
...................Helo, C-130, P-8, EP-3, E-6, and V-22 pilots do not get that qual.


Did I not say fighter pilot?
Not one of the aircraft you listed is a fighter.

My bad! You did indeed

I wonder if the VTOL F-35s will CQ in the future. I don't know if the USMC will have any carrier based aircraft that'll use a hook

USMC F-35B (STOVL) pilots don’t get a big carrier qual as the aircraft doesn’t land via the arrestor gear, they land vertical or soon to be used by the British Shipborne Rolling Vertical landing.

USMC F-35C (CATOBAR) pilots will be big carrier qualified. You can access the USMC 2019 Aviation Plan here https://www.aviation.marines.mil/portal ... avplan.pdf , I thought I had seen the 2020 plan but can’t seem to find it. This is a great reference for the OP should he be seriously interested in USMC aviation.

The USMC will operate four squadrons of F-35C (and acquire 67 aircraft in total) with the sole intent of these aircraft being flown from big carriers. The exact number of F-35Bs versus Cs has changed a couple of times and I expect will change again a couple more times before the final aircraft is delivered.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: spudh and 17 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos