Moderators: richierich, ua900, hOMSaR

 
ACYYZA345
Topic Author
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:52 am

Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Sat May 09, 2020 2:38 pm

The RCAF Snowbirds are currently on a Cross Canada tour as a salute to Canadians fighting COVID-19. Today they are due to continue flying east from CFB Trenton to Toronto but weather have delayed this leg. https://www.facebook.com/CFSnowbirdsFC/ ... =3&theater
 
ThePointblank
Posts: 3386
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Mon May 11, 2020 12:50 pm

They've started their own Youtube channel as well, uploading clips of their tour from either inside the cockpit, or from the tank cam:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr5-jD ... tGLXnk7F7g
 
escondido
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:19 pm

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Fri May 15, 2020 9:06 pm

Landed in YEG today!
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7866
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Sun May 17, 2020 7:28 pm

Reports coming in that one went down just outside of YKA

https://www.castanet.net/news/Kamloops/ ... mox#300255

Video of the crash. Looks like the pilot was able to eject:

https://mobile.twitter.com/supermario_4 ... 9966750720
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
DelSolAaron
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:52 pm

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Sun May 17, 2020 7:54 pm

So sad. That video is terrifying. Looks like there were 2 pilots in the cockpit and you can clearly see the chutes didn't really deploy properly. Unconfirmed reports that one pilot has died.
 
Flexbird
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:46 pm

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Sun May 17, 2020 7:57 pm

At what point will the RCAF not have enough Tutor aircraft to field a team?

It does not appear that a replacement aircraft program is imminent or even on the horizon but a life extension project as per:

http://dgpaapp.forces.gc.ca/en/defence-capabilities-blueprint/project-dca.asp?dca=Air
 
DelSolAaron
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:52 pm

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Sun May 17, 2020 8:08 pm

I heard a rumour they had hangars with hundreds of Tutor jets to use but maybe someone with more knowledge can answer more specifically.
 
diverted
Posts: 1259
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 3:17 pm

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Sun May 17, 2020 9:32 pm

DelSolAaron wrote:
I heard a rumour they had hangars with hundreds of Tutor jets to use but maybe someone with more knowledge can answer more specifically.


Don't know about hundreds, but it's pretty well known they kept some in reserve for activation as Snowbird aircraft. No idea on exact numbers
 
sashobest
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:13 am

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Sun May 17, 2020 9:48 pm

Here is more information and videos about that crash: https://aerobaticteams.net/en/news/i312 ... loops.html
 
T4thH
Posts: 879
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Sun May 17, 2020 9:50 pm

One pilot, parachute only partly deployed, landed on the roof of a house. He has survived and has been transported to the hospital.https://twitter.com/BKergin/status/1262116547159453697

I hope, he will fully recover soon.

And a gallery.
https://www.castanetkamloops.net/news/Kamloops/300256/Gallery-Snowbird-crashes-into-Kamloops-neighbourhood?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
 
ThePointblank
Posts: 3386
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Sun May 17, 2020 10:47 pm

Being reported that the pilot is ok, but one is dead, likely the aircraft technician who was in the co-pilot seat:

https://twitter.com/MercedesGlobal/stat ... 40645?s=19
 
B717fan
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2019 1:32 am

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Mon May 18, 2020 12:30 am

The deceased has been identified as Capt. Jennifer Casey, public relations officer for the Snowbirds. May she rest in peace.
https://www.castanetkamloops.net/editio ... htm#300255
 
889091
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:56 pm

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Mon May 18, 2020 12:41 am

RIP Capt. Casey.

Are those aircraft retrofitted with zero-zero ejection seats? Or have they retained the original seats?
 
User avatar
Bruce
Posts: 4947
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:46 am

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Mon May 18, 2020 1:43 am

Does anybody know which Snowbird plane this was?
Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
 
ElmerJrG
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2003 11:37 am

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Mon May 18, 2020 4:10 am

Bruce wrote:
Does anybody know which Snowbird plane this was?


Snowbird 11
 
ThePointblank
Posts: 3386
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Mon May 18, 2020 4:13 am

B717fan wrote:
The deceased has been identified as Capt. Jennifer Casey, public relations officer for the Snowbirds. May she rest in peace.
https://www.castanetkamloops.net/editio ... htm#300255

Also being confirmed as the injured is Capt. Richard MacDougall, who was Snowbird #11.

On a personal note, I did kinda know Jenn Casey; I've met her a few times in the past when she was the CF-18 Demo Team public affairs officer for the 2018 season, and when she was the Snowbirds PAO as well. Full of energy, a big, warm smile, with a big soft heart for young female aviators. She was a wonderful and gifted individual that died too soon. :cry:
 
User avatar
LyleLanley
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:33 pm

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Mon May 18, 2020 4:46 am

I’m sorry to hear, PB. It’s never easy, but I hope she was happy doing what she did and blessed those whom she surrounded herself with.
"I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrook, and, by gum, it put them on the map!"
 
ThePointblank
Posts: 3386
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Mon May 18, 2020 5:06 am

889091 wrote:
RIP Capt. Casey.

Are those aircraft retrofitted with zero-zero ejection seats? Or have they retained the original seats?

No zero-zero seats in the Tutor, and also, each occupant is responsible for ejecting themselves. There is no linked ejection system between the two seats, so if the aircraft is striken and they need to bail out, both need to pull their own handles to eject.
 
RetiredWeasel
Posts: 768
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:16 pm

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Mon May 18, 2020 5:52 am

ThePointblank wrote:
889091 wrote:
RIP Capt. Casey.

Are those aircraft retrofitted with zero-zero ejection seats? Or have they retained the original seats?

No zero-zero seats in the Tutor, and also, each occupant is responsible for ejecting themselves. There is no linked ejection system between the two seats, so if the aircraft is striken and they need to bail out, both need to pull their own handles to eject.


Zero-zero means very little when you're in a 70 degree dive and maybe 150 knots and 1000' AGL in a non-gimballed non-gyro stabilized rocket seat like is in the Tutor. The F-4 was zero-zero but in a 70 degree dive and 200 knots, minimum ejection altitude (if you wanted chute deployment and a couple swings) was 1600 feet. Sympathy for the lady officer's family.
 
rlwynn
Posts: 1462
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 3:35 am

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Mon May 18, 2020 6:34 am

DelSolAaron wrote:
I heard a rumour they had hangars with hundreds of Tutor jets to use but maybe someone with more knowledge can answer more specifically.


There were 212 made.

So maybe there tens stored somewhere.
I can drive faster than you
 
User avatar
GCT64
Posts: 1817
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:34 pm

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Mon May 18, 2020 1:34 pm

RCAF appear to have 20+ airworthy Tutors at Moose Jaw on the strength of 431 ADS, so they should be OK.
Flown in: A20N,A21N,A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A359,A388,BA11,BU31,(..56 more types..),VC10,WESX
 
ghYHZ
Posts: 430
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:26 pm

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Mon May 18, 2020 1:35 pm

B717fan wrote:
The deceased has been identified as Capt. Jennifer Casey, public relations officer for the Snowbirds. May she rest in peace.

She was from Halifax and just adds to the tragedies here or with connections to the province of Nova Scotia over the past month including the 6 lost in the CH-148 Cyclone crash from Halifax based HMCS Fredericton and the mass murders of 22 including an RCMP officer in the Truro area......and then the presumed drowning of a child also in Truro. Add to that the 49 Covid related deaths at one Halifax Nursing Home.

Just tragic.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 5282
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Mon May 18, 2020 1:51 pm

On the Reuters video, it looked like the pilot waited on the ejection command. The plane pitches up, like trying to do a large barrel roll, comes over the top, starts a dive, then both seats come out. Mechanical pitch problem, hoped for recovery? Video does make it look like more time than there is.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cana ... SKBN22T0RT
 
User avatar
glideslope
Posts: 1594
Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 8:06 pm

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Mon May 18, 2020 2:04 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
On the Reuters video, it looked like the pilot waited on the ejection command. The plane pitches up, like trying to do a large barrel roll, comes over the top, starts a dive, then both seats come out. Mechanical pitch problem, hoped for recovery? Video does make it look like more time than there is.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cana ... SKBN22T0RT


Just, MO. Can clearly hear a compressor stall on the climb out from video captured under the flight path. No straight ahead options, climbed to attempt a return to field. Ran out of energy. Gods Speed to the pilot and family.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 5282
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Mon May 18, 2020 2:51 pm

Engine failure on take-off boldface for the Tutor is zoom climb, throttle idle, attempt airstart , if no EGT rise, eject according to a friend. Possibly stalled at the top of the zoom. Compressor stall certainly indicates engine failure.
 
RetiredWeasel
Posts: 768
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:16 pm

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Mon May 18, 2020 3:00 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Engine failure on take-off boldface for the Tutor is zoom climb, throttle idle, attempt airstart , if no EGT rise, eject according to a friend. Possibly stalled at the top of the zoom. Compressor stall certainly indicates engine failure.


As a former Tweet spin instructor, it sure looks like a classic stall/spin (one turn) at the top of his zoom. Sad to see an out of the envelope ejection as it was a common killer prior to Aces II seats.
 
ThePointblank
Posts: 3386
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Mon May 18, 2020 7:24 pm

The general aviation community is stepping up, conducting a fly past over Vancouver as a memorial, termed Operation Backup Inspiration:

https://www.bcaviation.ca/bcga-news/ope ... afsA5T-CZU

35 aircraft are taking part, and will lift off from Abbotsford at around 6pm local time today, and fly the route the Snowbirds intended on flying, before splitting off to head to their home airports.
 
SuperiorPilotMe
Posts: 173
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:55 pm

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Mon May 18, 2020 7:52 pm

DelSolAaron wrote:
I heard a rumour they had hangars with hundreds of Tutor jets to use but maybe someone with more knowledge can answer more specifically.


I know I'm replying late on this point given how things have quickly and tragically shifted, but nonetheless, that's neither efficient nor even possible given how only 212 Tutors total were built (including a limited number for export). No rational government (even the US government) is going to store hundreds of intricately and carefully mothballed aircraft of one type specifically as "active" spares for such a bespoke, specialist and especially non-combat use as a demonstration team. What you're implying is very different from for example a Davis-Monthan or Pima boneyard situation or even Sweden that carefully stores Gripens in such a state only because they're just stuck with them (and can at any time turn around and sell them anyway, including theoretically at the very moment I'm composing this post). They certainly have spare parts, cannibalized aircraft and MAYBE even airframes they can revitalize Davis-Monthan-style, but not several hangars full of a simple trainer type stored F-117-style.
Stop the stupids!- Claus Kellerman
 
cumulushumilis
Posts: 230
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:49 pm

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Mon May 18, 2020 9:43 pm

SuperiorPilotMe wrote:
DelSolAaron wrote:
I heard a rumour they had hangars with hundreds of Tutor jets to use but maybe someone with more knowledge can answer more specifically.


I know I'm replying late on this point given how things have quickly and tragically shifted, but nonetheless, that's neither efficient nor even possible given how only 212 Tutors total were built (including a limited number for export). No rational government (even the US government) is going to store hundreds of intricately and carefully mothballed aircraft of one type specifically as "active" spares for such a bespoke, specialist and especially non-combat use as a demonstration team. What you're implying is very different from for example a Davis-Monthan or Pima boneyard situation or even Sweden that carefully stores Gripens in such a state only because they're just stuck with them (and can at any time turn around and sell them anyway, including theoretically at the very moment I'm composing this post). They certainly have spare parts, cannibalized aircraft and MAYBE even airframes they can revitalize Davis-Monthan-style, but not several hangars full of a simple trainer type stored F-117-style.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiORBFNjLK4

At one point CFD Mountian View had a hangar or two full of Tutors. Not sure if they are still there. The Snowbirds used to continuously cycle through aircraft from this facility. There are enough spare parts and airframes lying around to keep 25 aircraft flying for the foreseeable future.
 
ThePointblank
Posts: 3386
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Mon May 18, 2020 11:31 pm

Statement from Lieutenant-Colonel Mike French, commander of the Snowbirds:

https://www.facebook.com/notes/canadian ... B__tn__=-R

Lieutenant-Colonel Mike French, 431 (Air Demonstration) Squadron Commanding Officer, on the CF Snowbirds crash in Kamloops, BC.

Canadian Forces Snowbirds·Monday, May 18, 2020·Reading time: 3 minutes

At approximately 11:45 a.m. on May 17, 2020, shortly after take-off from Kamloops Airport, Snowbird 11, a Canadian Forces Snowbirds CT-114 Tutor, crashed into a nearby neighbourhood. Prior to the crash, the two person crew of the aircraft ejected. Tragically, Captain Jenn Casey, the team’s Public Affairs Officer, did not survive. The aircraft’s pilot, Captain Rich MacDougall survived with non-life threatening injuries.

The team is devastated by the loss of Jenn. She was the quintessential Public Affairs Officer. A tireless and energetic officer with a network of media contacts from her previous media career and savvy with social media which endeared her to the public. She absolutely loved what she did; she was one of the main reasons Op INSPIRATION has been so well received by the public. She had just received a 1 Canadian Air Division Commander’s coin in recognition of her stellar efforts and a nomination was being drafted for a Chief of the Defence Staff commendation.

Her loss is a serious blow to not only our Team, but to the Royal Canadian Air Force and the Canadian Armed Forces as a whole. I’ve spoken with Jenn’s family, and passed on our sincere and heartfelt condolences. No words can ease the pain they are feeling right now, I have passed on that they are not grieving alone.

We are also thinking of Capt MacDougall at this time, and supporting him as he recovers from his injuries. I’ve spoken to him, and assured him he has the full support of the Team and the Canadian Armed Forces while he too goes through this difficult time.

At this time the precise circumstances leading up to the crash are not known. The crash site has been secured by local law enforcement and the immediate Flight Safety response is being coordinated on the ground by the team’s Flight Safety Officer as we speak. An investigation team from the Directorate of Flight Safety in Ottawa has already arrived in Kamloops to conduct a flight safety investigation to determine the cause of the incident.

We want to thank the first responders from the Kamloops region for their timely and professional response, and I would be remiss if I did not mention the stoic and brave response of the members of the public who came to the aid of our teammates, especially those who had the aircraft land in their neighbourhood.

We also appreciate all the messages of support for Rich and his wellbeing. The support of every Canadian is truly appreciated during these difficult times.

As of now, Operation INSPIRATION is postponed until further notice, and the entire Snowbird fleet is on an operational pause. Over the coming days the team will re-group, and come together to mourn the loss of our colleague. When appropriate to do so, we will return to 15 Wing Moose Jaw to plan our next steps.

Today, however, we need a day to decompress and understand what happened to Jenn and to Rich. We will share our hearts with Canadians tomorrow; the team members need this time to be together and to mourn in private. We thank all Canadians for their continued support, patience, and understanding during this immensely challenging time for the team.
 
DelSolAaron
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:52 pm

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Mon May 18, 2020 11:45 pm

cumulushumilis wrote:
SuperiorPilotMe wrote:
DelSolAaron wrote:
I heard a rumour they had hangars with hundreds of Tutor jets to use but maybe someone with more knowledge can answer more specifically.


I know I'm replying late on this point given how things have quickly and tragically shifted, but nonetheless, that's neither efficient nor even possible given how only 212 Tutors total were built (including a limited number for export). No rational government (even the US government) is going to store hundreds of intricately and carefully mothballed aircraft of one type specifically as "active" spares for such a bespoke, specialist and especially non-combat use as a demonstration team. What you're implying is very different from for example a Davis-Monthan or Pima boneyard situation or even Sweden that carefully stores Gripens in such a state only because they're just stuck with them (and can at any time turn around and sell them anyway, including theoretically at the very moment I'm composing this post). They certainly have spare parts, cannibalized aircraft and MAYBE even airframes they can revitalize Davis-Monthan-style, but not several hangars full of a simple trainer type stored F-117-style.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiORBFNjLK4

At one point CFD Mountian View had a hangar or two full of Tutors. Not sure if they are still there. The Snowbirds used to continuously cycle through aircraft from this facility. There are enough spare parts and airframes lying around to keep 25 aircraft flying for the foreseeable future.


Ya I have no clue where I heard hundreds from. Like I said a rumour I heard. Seems like there are more than enough parts and jets to keep them flying for a long time though. Doing a quick scan on incidents with the Snowbirds on Wikipedia I count 22 incidents not including the last 2 which have 'unknown reason' it seems as though there have been potentially only 8 incidents since 1972 that could be related to aircraft failures. The rest seem to be pilot error. That is almost a 50 year span. I wonder how those numbers compare to the Blue Angels and Thunderbirds. Seems like they are doing a good job of maintaining them but maybe you guys know better than me.
 
ThePointblank
Posts: 3386
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Tue May 19, 2020 12:00 am

A memorial has been created along the chain link fence at Kamloops Airport to remember Jenn Casey, and there's a petition to have Airport Road, which leads into Kamloops Airport renamed after her:

https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/05/18 ... sey-grows/
 
User avatar
tenHangar
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:39 pm

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Tue May 19, 2020 1:09 am

“Certainly it’s an engine loss,” said retired chief of the defense staff Tom Lawson, who spent most of his military career flying fighter jets.

“You trade off your speed — whatever little bit you were able to build up — for altitude. It’s not so you can think of what to do next. It’s so you can eject at a safe altitude. It’s called zoom and boom.”
 
Canuck600
Posts: 267
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:24 pm

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Tue May 19, 2020 4:09 pm

I wonder if one outcome of this is that the Snowbirds finally get a support aircraft to transport the tech's & equipment instead of carrying them in the Tutor's? Knowing what knee jerkers the politicians are I say the more likely scenario is they try & shut the team down.
 
SuperiorPilotMe
Posts: 173
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:55 pm

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Wed May 20, 2020 12:19 am

cumulushumilis wrote:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiORBFNjLK4

At one point CFD Mountian View had a hangar or two full of Tutors. Not sure if they are still there. The Snowbirds used to continuously cycle through aircraft from this facility. There are enough spare parts and airframes lying around to keep 25 aircraft flying for the foreseeable future.


I'm sorry, and as a broad admirer of Canadian culture and Justin Trudeau specifically I mean no disrespect, but that's a particularly terrible and inefficient policy given the age, general obsolescence and as a direct result of those two the now relatively bespoke nature of the CT-114.

In fact come to think of it, I wonder if the most optimal solution is to now look to a private contractor like say Draken International and just tell them, pick a jet, and we'll lease them from you and use those as our display mount from now on. Could be Hawks, could be Saabs F-5s or whatever, but I have to believe it's more optimal than keeping old birds in premium-optimal storage like this.
Stop the stupids!- Claus Kellerman
 
ThePointblank
Posts: 3386
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Wed May 20, 2020 6:32 am

Canuck600 wrote:
I wonder if one outcome of this is that the Snowbirds finally get a support aircraft to transport the tech's & equipment instead of carrying them in the Tutor's? Knowing what knee jerkers the politicians are I say the more likely scenario is they try & shut the team down.

During the air show season, the ground techs go from location to location in a modified tractor trailer unit, which carries all of their equipment, tools, and immediate spare parts in the trailer. Most of the ground support crew travel that way between venues.

SuperiorPilotMe wrote:
cumulushumilis wrote:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiORBFNjLK4

At one point CFD Mountian View had a hangar or two full of Tutors. Not sure if they are still there. The Snowbirds used to continuously cycle through aircraft from this facility. There are enough spare parts and airframes lying around to keep 25 aircraft flying for the foreseeable future.


I'm sorry, and as a broad admirer of Canadian culture and Justin Trudeau specifically I mean no disrespect, but that's a particularly terrible and inefficient policy given the age, general obsolescence and as a direct result of those two the now relatively bespoke nature of the CT-114.

In fact come to think of it, I wonder if the most optimal solution is to now look to a private contractor like say Draken International and just tell them, pick a jet, and we'll lease them from you and use those as our display mount from now on. Could be Hawks, could be Saabs F-5s or whatever, but I have to believe it's more optimal than keeping old birds in premium-optimal storage like this.

The likely scenario is that whatever new aircraft the Snowbirds will fly would just be more of a new trainer aircraft. The current fleet of CT-156 Harvard II's and CT-155 Hawk's are getting pretty beat up flying many flight hours, and being abused by student pilots.
 
Canuck600
Posts: 267
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:24 pm

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Wed May 20, 2020 4:45 pm

ThePointblank wrote:
Canuck600 wrote:
I wonder if one outcome of this is that the Snowbirds finally get a support aircraft to transport the tech's & equipment instead of carrying them in the Tutor's? Knowing what knee jerkers the politicians are I say the more likely scenario is they try & shut the team down.

During the air show season, the ground techs go from location to location in a modified tractor trailer unit, which carries all of their equipment, tools, and immediate spare parts in the trailer. Most of the ground support crew travel that way between venues.

Ok I was led to believe that the techs & the public affairs office etc all flew in the second seat between shows.
 
cumulushumilis
Posts: 230
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:49 pm

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Wed May 20, 2020 7:57 pm

ThePointblank wrote:
Canuck600 wrote:
I wonder if one outcome of this is that the Snowbirds finally get a support aircraft to transport the tech's & equipment instead of carrying them in the Tutor's? Knowing what knee jerkers the politicians are I say the more likely scenario is they try & shut the team down.

During the air show season, the ground techs go from location to location in a modified tractor trailer unit, which carries all of their equipment, tools, and immediate spare parts in the trailer. Most of the ground support crew travel that way between venues.

SuperiorPilotMe wrote:
cumulushumilis wrote:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiORBFNjLK4

At one point CFD Mountian View had a hangar or two full of Tutors. Not sure if they are still there. The Snowbirds used to continuously cycle through aircraft from this facility. There are enough spare parts and airframes lying around to keep 25 aircraft flying for the foreseeable future.


I'm sorry, and as a broad admirer of Canadian culture and Justin Trudeau specifically I mean no disrespect, but that's a particularly terrible and inefficient policy given the age, general obsolescence and as a direct result of those two the now relatively bespoke nature of the CT-114.

In fact come to think of it, I wonder if the most optimal solution is to now look to a private contractor like say Draken International and just tell them, pick a jet, and we'll lease them from you and use those as our display mount from now on. Could be Hawks, could be Saabs F-5s or whatever, but I have to believe it's more optimal than keeping old birds in premium-optimal storage like this.

The likely scenario is that whatever new aircraft the Snowbirds will fly would just be more of a new trainer aircraft. The current fleet of CT-156 Harvard II's and CT-155 Hawk's are getting pretty beat up flying many flight hours, and being abused by student pilots.


The Tutors are scheduled to undergo a modernization program (new avionics and such). Very basic airframe, well built, simple to tear down and rebuild. They remind me of your average DC-3 in durability as there is not much to them. There really isn't anything on the market like them for flying characteristics and the reason their show is engaging. Everything else is loud fast and obnoxious. It will be interesting to find out what comes out of the flight safety investigation and if they proceed with the modernization program.
 
ThePointblank
Posts: 3386
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: Royal Canadian Air Force Snowbirds Cross Canada tour (Operation Inspiration)

Thu May 21, 2020 1:09 am

Canuck600 wrote:
ThePointblank wrote:
Canuck600 wrote:
I wonder if one outcome of this is that the Snowbirds finally get a support aircraft to transport the tech's & equipment instead of carrying them in the Tutor's? Knowing what knee jerkers the politicians are I say the more likely scenario is they try & shut the team down.

During the air show season, the ground techs go from location to location in a modified tractor trailer unit, which carries all of their equipment, tools, and immediate spare parts in the trailer. Most of the ground support crew travel that way between venues.

Ok I was led to believe that the techs & the public affairs office etc all flew in the second seat between shows.

They do travel in the second seat as required, especially if there isn't much in the way of time between shows which would allow ground-based transportation to move quickly enough. This was the case with OP Inspiration, so the techs and crew did have to travel in the second seat.

cumulushumilis wrote:
The Tutors are scheduled to undergo a modernization program (new avionics and such). Very basic airframe, well built, simple to tear down and rebuild. They remind me of your average DC-3 in durability as there is not much to them. There really isn't anything on the market like them for flying characteristics and the reason their show is engaging. Everything else is loud fast and obnoxious. It will be interesting to find out what comes out of the flight safety investigation and if they proceed with the modernization program.


That's why I noted that whatever replaces the Snowbirds jets will likely be another trainer jet that the RCAF will operate. The timeline for the Snowbird Replacement Project and the Future Aircrew Training Program are similar, with similar requirements.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: dobilan, exFWAOONW and 35 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos