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Max Q
Topic Author
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

AW 609 Military applications ?

Sat May 30, 2020 11:41 am

Looks like this tilt rotor is finally getting close to certification


It’s a unique aircraft, VTOL and VSTOL capable, 275 knot max cruise, up to 1000 mile range with planned external tanks and importantly, unlike the V-22 it’s fully pressurized with the ability to cruise at 25000 feet .Also unlike the V-22 it’s reasonably quiet.



It would seem an ideal special forces machine to carry those operators in and out of sensitive areas quietly and fast with a smaller footprint than the Osprey, especially useful being employed on amphibious carriers
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
texl1649
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Re: AW 609 Military applications ?

Sat May 30, 2020 12:34 pm

Yes, it’s not hamstrung by a need to fold everything up to fit on a ship, and it’s really a much newer design. It’s amazing to a degree how Bell folded out of both the AW139 and AW609. Probably, it will find some military uses but I don’t see any near term competitions spec’d for it’s unique abilities. Is this built at the same Philly place Leonardo does the AW139’s before shipping them across town to Boeing for the USAF paint/conversion?

“ Leonardo has yet to finalize a sales price, but says it will fall between $20 million and $30 million depending on configuration and options. That may be a tough sell for cost-sensitive helicopter operators, which can shell out as little as $11 million for a similarly sized rotorcraft. “You’re paying basically a 2.5X premium over [a helicopter] of the same cabin size,” says Richard Aboulafia, an aerospace consultant with Teal Group. “You have to really want and need the speed and range.””

“ Leonardo’s near-term challenge is to make it the first aircraft to complete certification under the FAA’s new Powered Lift category, which electric urban air taxis will likely fall under as well, and demonstrate its worth to the market.

One potential pool of buyers for whom performance often outweighs costs: governments. For foreign militaries, the AW609 could offer a discount way to get V-22-caliber response times, though the terms of the sale of the program to Leonardo don’t allow it to sell an armed version. The United Arab Emirates signed a memorandum of understanding in 2015 to acquire three AW609s for search and rescue operations; Leonardo won’t comment on whether the order has been firmed up.

Sunick believes that first adopters will create new markets for tiltrotors in the same way that smartphones and microwave ovens redefined how people communicate and cook. “You’re going to find new ways to do things,” he says.”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremyboga ... 5ce6895354
 
SuperiorPilotMe
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:55 pm

Re: AW 609 Military applications ?

Sun May 31, 2020 12:29 am

Whatever military applications can be applied to an AW109, can probably be applied to an AW609, and the AW109 is very popular for some military applications.

However, this assumes the AW609 even enters production and the entire program isn't written off as a complete failure. I've yet to even hear of a single AW609 being accepted by a customer. The AW609 might be one of the worst-managed civilian aerospace programs of this century so far; by the time the bugs are ironed out, other competitors will have overtaken it (namely from Boeing and Sikorsky).
Stop the stupids!- Claus Kellerman
 
texl1649
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Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:38 am

Re: AW 609 Military applications ?

Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:04 pm

What civilian aerospace tilt rotor programs are even vaguely in the 2020’s likely to happen from Boeing or Sikorsky? A civil application of the V280 is about the only thing I can think of (which is likely toward 2030 if it wins).
 
SuperiorPilotMe
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Re: AW 609 Military applications ?

Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:44 am

texl1649 wrote:
A civil application of the V280 is about the only thing I can think of (which is likely toward 2030 if it wins).


And I wouldn't be surprised if it takes that long for a single AW609 to be delivered, if at all.

There's a reason why tiltrotors in civilian service aren't a thing yet.
Stop the stupids!- Claus Kellerman
 
Ozair
Posts: 5219
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: AW 609 Military applications ?

Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:54 am

SuperiorPilotMe wrote:

There's a reason why tiltrotors in civilian service aren't a thing yet.

The delay on tiltrotors in civilian service is likely more to do with no aircraft being available for commercial sale and not a decade long certification. As per the Forbes article linked earlier the expectation is certification shortly.
 
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N328KF
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Re: AW 609 Military applications ?

Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:28 pm

texl1649 wrote:
What civilian aerospace tilt rotor programs are even vaguely in the 2020’s likely to happen from Boeing or Sikorsky? A civil application of the V280 is about the only thing I can think of (which is likely toward 2030 if it wins).


The V-280 contains a significant change from the V-22 and AW609. That is in how the engines pivot (nacelles vs. the whole wing.) This single change is seen (but not yet proven) to increase safety and lower the design complexity, so a V-280 derivative would seem to actually increase suitability for the civil market.
“In the age of information, ignorance is a choice.”
-Donny Miller
 
IADFCO
Posts: 189
Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 4:20 pm

Re: AW 609 Military applications ?

Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:31 am

N328KF wrote:
texl1649 wrote:
What civilian aerospace tilt rotor programs are even vaguely in the 2020’s likely to happen from Boeing or Sikorsky? A civil application of the V280 is about the only thing I can think of (which is likely toward 2030 if it wins).


The V-280 contains a significant change from the V-22 and AW609. That is in how the engines pivot (nacelles vs. the whole wing.) This single change is seen (but not yet proven) to increase safety and lower the design complexity, so a V-280 derivative would seem to actually increase suitability for the civil market.


The wing doesn't tilt in any of them. It's the engines that tilt in the V-22 and the AW609 and don't in the V-280 (so the hot exhaust gases don't hit the landing area at take-off and landing).
 
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N328KF
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Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 3:50 am

Re: AW 609 Military applications ?

Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:03 am

IADFCO wrote:
N328KF wrote:
texl1649 wrote:
What civilian aerospace tilt rotor programs are even vaguely in the 2020’s likely to happen from Boeing or Sikorsky? A civil application of the V280 is about the only thing I can think of (which is likely toward 2030 if it wins).


The V-280 contains a significant change from the V-22 and AW609. That is in how the engines pivot (nacelles vs. the whole wing.) This single change is seen (but not yet proven) to increase safety and lower the design complexity, so a V-280 derivative would seem to actually increase suitability for the civil market.


The wing doesn't tilt in any of them. It's the engines that tilt in the V-22 and the AW609 and don't in the V-280 (so the hot exhaust gases don't hit the landing area at take-off and landing).


Yes, you are absolutely right, apologies. But it's still considered to be a better mechanism.
“In the age of information, ignorance is a choice.”
-Donny Miller

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