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dfwjim1
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P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Sun May 31, 2020 8:19 pm

.I just watched a YouTube video of two Russian SU-35s shadowing a US Navy P-8 at very, very close range. Not the first time this has happened with both Russian and Chinese fighters flying too close to a P-8 so is it perhaps time to have US Navy/Marine/Air Force fighters escort P-8s when they are on missions in certain areas? Would the presence of fighter escorts cause the Russians and Chinese to shy away from a P-8 or would the presence of the fighters lead to a greater chance of hostilities (versus the possibility of an inflight collusion )?

Thanks for your responses.
 
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scbriml
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Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Sun May 31, 2020 10:31 pm

Your post stands more chance of not being deleted if you include a link for your source.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U21JrpV_4sY

The Su-35 is a large fighter, they didn't look "very, very close" to me. IMHO, they looked to be pretty professional.
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RetiredWeasel
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Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Sun May 31, 2020 10:42 pm

scbriml wrote:
Your post stands more chance of not being deleted if you include a link for your source.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U21JrpV_4sY

The Su-35 is a large fighter, they didn't look "very, very close" to me. IMHO, they looked to be pretty professional.

I'm going to go with the official Navy statement: "The intercept was determined to be unsafe and unprofessional due to the Russian pilots taking close station on each wing of the P-8A simultaneously, restricting the P-8A’s ability to safely maneuver."

And an image from the belly imaging turret of the P-8 took this photo and IMHO the Flanker is flying too tight.
https://the-drive-3.imgix.net/https%3A%2F%2Fapi.thedrive.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2020%2F05%2Fp-8-intercept-top.jpg%3Fquality%3D85?w=1440&auto=compress%2Cformat&ixlib=js-1.4.1&s=568ccde0fc9fb21610b87be450450b2d
 
Ozair
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Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Sun May 31, 2020 11:18 pm

dfwjim1 wrote:
.I just watched a YouTube video of two Russian SU-35s shadowing a US Navy P-8 at very, very close range. Not the first time this has happened with both Russian and Chinese fighters flying too close to a P-8 so is it perhaps time to have US Navy/Marine/Air Force fighters escort P-8s when they are on missions in certain areas? Would the presence of fighter escorts cause the Russians and Chinese to shy away from a P-8 or would the presence of the fighters lead to a greater chance of hostilities (versus the possibility of an inflight collusion )?

Thanks for your responses.

In answer to your question I don't think it is practical to have fighters accompany these aircraft on their reconnaissance missions. The fighters don't have the range and generally there aren't bases in close proximity to where these missions are being conducted. The vast majority of these missions either have no interception by adversary fighter aircraft or the intercepts are benign. I expect that a fighter presence would probably escalate the intercept but also potentially increase the likelihood the reconnaissance mission is detected and certainly increase the probably that the responding nation launches alert fighters to intercept.

What it also comes down to though is the risk the respective service is willing to accept to allow these missions to continue. This article has an interesting perspective on the perceived risk today of these operations compared to Cold War times.

Air Force Manned Reconnaissance at a Crossroads

...

Analysts can estimate this risk tolerance, however, by examining Russian and Chinese peacetime aerial intercepts of large American manned aircraft such as RC-135s, EP-3Es, and P-8s. The Pentagon today routinely accuses Russian and Chinese interceptors of “unsafe and unprofessional” intercepts. The fear is that these intercepts may lead to a mid-air collision and create an international incident, such as the 2001 downing of a U.S. EP-3E near Hainan Island. Since 1946, however, there has been only one other mid-air collision involving Western reconnaissance aircraft when in 1987 a Soviet Su-27 clipped a Royal Norwegian Air Force P-3B (both landed safely). Clearly, the collision issue is more of a distraction than a legitimate historical concern.

...

The answer lies with the decreased risk tolerance of U.S. commanders. During the 1950s and 1960s, for example, crews were told to complete their missions even at the risk of their lives. Landing a crippled airplane in a hostile country, as with the case of the EP-3 at Hainan, was tantamount to a voluntary act of treason. During the 1970s and 1980s, reconnaissance aircraft aborted a mission only when overtly threatened by interceptor gunfire or hostile radar lock on. In interviews of recent reconnaissance unit commanders for historical research on aerial intelligence operations since 2000, however, they were unanimous in saying that no mission of any type — in war or peace requires risking the loss of an airplane and its crew. Reconnaissance commanders now direct crews to terminate missions for “unsafe and unprofessional” actions by interceptors. These might include high-speed passes at distances of 50–100 feet from the RC-135 or aggressive turns in front of the airplane, actions “old hands” consider tame when recalling fighters 10 feet from the RC-135’s wingtip or supersonic passes immediately above the RC-135 (“thumping”) expressly intended to make it lose control.

...

https://warontherocks.com/2019/04/air-f ... rossroads/

I expect that these missions will continue, they clearly fulfill an important role, but would be prime candidates to be replaced by unmanned aircraft in the next 20-30 years. That opens up its own questions about unsafe intercepts and to what level of risk is an unmanned platform during peacetime placed into a potentially unsafe situation and how would an unmanned platform react to unsafe intercepts.


RetiredWeasel wrote:
I'm going to go with the official Navy statement: "The intercept was determined to be unsafe and unprofessional due to the Russian pilots taking close station on each wing of the P-8A simultaneously, restricting the P-8A’s ability to safely maneuver."

And an image from the belly imaging turret of the P-8 took this photo and IMHO the Flanker is flying too tight.
https://the-drive-3.imgix.net/https%3A%2F%2Fapi.thedrive.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2020%2F05%2Fp-8-intercept-top.jpg%3Fquality%3D85?w=1440&auto=compress%2Cformat&ixlib=js-1.4.1&s=568ccde0fc9fb21610b87be450450b2d

Agree that is very close! The article above mentions some very close previous intercepts and shows this behaviour has been going on for a long time!

Image

A Soviet MiG-19 Farmer D less than 20 feet off the wing of an RB-47H on 24 September 1962. Soviet pilots were extremely aggressive and occasionally flew directly in front of the RB-47’s engines.


It was also not unheard of for an intercepting fighter to conduct a supersonic fly pass extremely close to the reconnaissance aircraft in an deliberate attempt to make it lose control.
 
rfields5421
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Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Sun May 31, 2020 11:53 pm

My first duty station in the US Navy was VQ-1 out of NAS Guam in 1972-74. That was just a few years after squadron aircraft PR-21, an EC-121, had been shot down in international airspace near North Korea. Several people in the squadron at the time I was there had also been in the squadron when PR-21 was destroyed.

One of the things I discovered in my time there was that VQ-1 did have fighters assigned to the squadron for a few years in the late 50s/ early 60s. As mentioned above, fighter range was an issue which limited their usefulness.

I've always followed the squadron with interest since, especially when the EP-3E was downed on Hainan after the collision.

It is a dangerous game of chicken to see who blinks first, with several lives at stake.
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dfwjim1
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Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:11 am

scbriml wrote:
Your post stands more chance of not being deleted if you include a link for your source.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U21JrpV_4sY

The Su-35 is a large fighter, they didn't look "very, very close" to me. IMHO, they looked to be pretty professional.


Dang....forgot to add the link.
 
mmo
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Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:08 am

The other thing that happens if you add fighter coverage is it now becomes a dog and pony show. You have a cast of supporting actors and others who have to be in position to cover the fighter tanking. What happens if a fighter goes down due to maintenance? Does the whole operation get canceled? If not, then why are you taking fighters in the first place?

These types of operations are supposed to be low key. Having a fighter escort would certainly notch up the tension and it's like announcing "Here we come!".
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Moose135
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Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:53 pm

Should the Russians send fighter escorts along with their reconnaissance aircraft that the US intercept?

https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoin ... ise-again/
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Spacepope
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Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:46 pm

Moose135 wrote:
Should the Russians send fighter escorts along with their reconnaissance aircraft that the US intercept?

https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoin ... ise-again/


Sure, go for it! I'm certain they have plenty of engine hours to burn for those fighters and tanker support.
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Ozair
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Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:34 pm

Spacepope wrote:
Moose135 wrote:
Should the Russians send fighter escorts along with their reconnaissance aircraft that the US intercept?

https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoin ... ise-again/


Sure, go for it! I'm certain they have plenty of engine hours to burn for those fighters and tanker support.

Russia does occasionally fly fighters with their reconnaissance missions although the fighters don't go the entire distance with the Tu-142. In the below instance I don’t think they made it past Norway as a follow on article I found mentioned that the British only intercepted Tu-142s.

...

When two Russian Tu-142 anti-submarine aircraft, with MiG-31 fighter planes escorting them, came close to Norway's airspace on Saturday, two Norwegian F-16 planes on NATO's "Quick Reaction Alert" took off from Orland Air Station to identify and shadow them.

...

https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/2020/0 ... 583774223/
Follow on article, https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-no ... d-51789577

Easier to send fighters for some of the journey when you have basing reasonably close but harder when you are conducting these ops especially in some areas of the Pacific.
 
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Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:06 am

Ozair wrote:
..

https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/2020/0 ... 583774223/
Follow on article, https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-no ... d-51789577

Easier to send fighters for some of the journey when you have basing reasonably close but harder when you are conducting these ops especially in some areas of the Pacific.


Actually they escorted a couple of bombers in the Alaskan ADIZ last May with a couple of SU-35s
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/us-mili ... d=63176345

Probably had air refueling, but Russia is just not that far away as noted by Palin's silly statement 8 years ago.
 
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Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:44 am

RetiredWeasel wrote:
Ozair wrote:
..

https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/2020/0 ... 583774223/
Follow on article, https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-no ... d-51789577

Easier to send fighters for some of the journey when you have basing reasonably close but harder when you are conducting these ops especially in some areas of the Pacific.


Actually they escorted a couple of bombers in the Alaskan ADIZ last May with a couple of SU-35s
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/us-mili ... d=63176345

Probably had air refueling, but Russia is just not that far away as noted by Palin's silly statement 8 years ago.

Yep. My inference, was wasn’t clear in retrospect, was to US ops that would occur in the Pacific as per the thread topic potentially along the Chinese coastline. Less basing available to make a fighter presence practical aside from the other considerations.

Can you believe the Palin statement was made in 2008, so almost 12 years ago now!
 
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Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:11 am

The Chinese and the Russians learned nothing from the PLAAF J-8-IIM collision with a USN EP-3E back in 2001.
 
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Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:57 am

For fighter escort, it would just make the situation more difficult. The recon flight is going to be intercepted, of course. If the recon asset has an escort, then more interceptors will come out. They will still want to get close to underline their point of "we know you are here." In the end, one of the rules of spying is to not jeopardize the ability to continue spying.

kc135topboom wrote:
The Chinese and the Russians learned nothing from the PLAAF J-8-IIM collision with a USN EP-3E back in 2001.


I thought they learned a lot. :lol:
 
Woodreau
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Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:48 pm

Too bad we are pulling out of the Open Skies Treaty.....
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bhill
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Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:35 pm

rfields5421 wrote:
My first duty station in the US Navy was VQ-1 out of NAS Guam in 1972-74. That was just a few years after squadron aircraft PR-21, an EC-121, had been shot down in international airspace near North Korea. Several people in the squadron at the time I was there had also been in the squadron when PR-21 was destroyed.

One of the things I discovered in my time there was that VQ-1 did have fighters assigned to the squadron for a few years in the late 50s/ early 60s. As mentioned above, fighter range was an issue which limited their usefulness.

I've always followed the squadron with interest since, especially when the EP-3E was downed on Hainan after the collision.

It is a dangerous game of chicken to see who blinks first, with several lives at stake.


This...unless you want to send a tanker in harms way, the fighters do not have the loiter time as the ASW birds..
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Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:52 pm

kc135topboom wrote:
The Chinese and the Russians learned nothing from the PLAAF J-8-IIM collision with a USN EP-3E back in 2001.


Nah, that P-3 was on the ground for a while in China. I'm sure they learned plenty.
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rfields5421
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Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:03 pm

Spacepope wrote:
kc135topboom wrote:
The Chinese and the Russians learned nothing from the PLAAF J-8-IIM collision with a USN EP-3E back in 2001.


Nah, that P-3 was on the ground for a while in China. I'm sure they learned plenty.


The aircraft and most of the equipment it carries are nothing special. While they might not have some details on capabilities of the sensors, it really is not much of a secret that they can pick-up anything from land-line telephone (as we did in 1970-72) to cell phone and any other communications signal. Any target acquisition radar, or guidance system within range is picked up.

The data tapes for analysis by NSA were the critical items when I was in the squadron (I'm sure they don't use tape any longer, just as SOSUS no longer used the paper printouts back when I was on a SOSUS base).

Back then, there was no real-time transmission of data acquired to analysis centers back home. I'm sure that has changed now. The valuable and critical intelligence part of what has been picked up, and what is known about that data is the big thing.

They want the raw data captured. And they did not get that. They also should not have gotten the key cards (or current day equivalent) for the crypto comms gear. Those would be useful for deciphering any past transmission from/to the aircraft they might have intercepted. You can be certain all crypto comm codes were changed across the fleet before the aircraft landed. We have to assume they got everything.

Tasking for many of those flights does not come from the Navy, even regional commanders. Much of the tasking comes out of NSA and other intel shops in DC.

The P-8 / P-3 missions like the Russians recently closed with are legitimate fleet survelience efforts. No one pretends that we are not doing what they think we are going.

Frankly for ASW, a P-8/P-3 is a very poor tool to find where the other guy's submarines are located. Some other intel source has to give the P-8/P-3 a ballpark to search within. It's a big ocean, knowing the right ballpark to look in is essential.

For a fleet exercise, we might want to know if they are using subs to keep tabs on us/ allied navies. How close the sub can get before the ship systems pick it up? (Or course basic ASW is that if the ship can pick up the sub, it's already well within fatal launch range.)

They might also be interested in knowing if we are using friendly subs to run mission profiles against our own forces. To give them practice.

Normally when the 'enemy' targets our ASW or other reconnaissance aircraft, it is a signal that they are trying something and want to keep our assets away from finding out what they are doing.

When we see such harassment flights, normally it is a clear sign that they are trying to hide something, for us to be extra vigilant.
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PhilMcCrackin
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Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:43 am

bhill wrote:
This...unless you want to send a tanker in harms way, the fighters do not have the loiter time as the ASW birds..


The P8s and fighters never leave international airspace, let alone tankers, so there's really no "harm's way" about it.

This is a big game that we've been playing since the 50s. No one's life is at stake any more than it normally is. The media loves to report these incidents as some sort of overt act of aggression, but that's not the case. We go poke around off their shores, still in international airspace, and they do the same thing. This isn't the WW3 people seem to think it is.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:45 pm

Lets come at it from a different direction.

Assuming that the intercepts are are to annoy the P-8A and not necessary acts of agression that may require a protective response, then the question becomes:

How would a P-8A fare under the same circumstance that occured of the coast of China? How does it fly when crossing the jet wash of a fighter plane, or when getting the wing "chipped".

Any one know the air speed of these P-8A when doing their circuit? I mean if the speed is faster than the P-3, then the P-8A is already safer with respect to the relative speed of the two approaching aircrafts. Assuming that they both are going in the same direction. Head to head intercept would be dangerous at any speed.

bt
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889091
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Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:47 pm

Is the P8 able to carry the AIM-9X on the hardpoints under the wing?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:05 pm

oh those Russians.....
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Ozair
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Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:28 pm

bikerthai wrote:
Lets come at it from a different direction.

Assuming that the intercepts are are to annoy the P-8A and not necessary acts of agression that may require a protective response, then the question becomes:

How would a P-8A fare under the same circumstance that occured of the coast of China? How does it fly when crossing the jet wash of a fighter plane, or when getting the wing "chipped".

Any one know the air speed of these P-8A when doing their circuit? I mean if the speed is faster than the P-3, then the P-8A is already safer with respect to the relative speed of the two approaching aircrafts. Assuming that they both are going in the same direction. Head to head intercept would be dangerous at any speed.

bt

Given buzzing RC-135s at supersonic speed in an attempt to destabilise the aircraft has been a previous tactic I think the speed difference is somewhat immaterial. The P-3s as turboprop aircraft are in the minority for US reconnaissance aircraft but I doubt there is much difference in how each airframe will handle the incident.

889091 wrote:
Is the P8 able to carry the AIM-9X on the hardpoints under the wing?

AIM-9X is not currently integrated onto the airframe. No reason it couldn’t be but not a currently fit weapon.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:08 pm

Wouldn't you need to be more maneuverable to use a heat seaker? Wouldn't it be more logical to use a radar guided missile?


bt
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bhill
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Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:05 pm

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
bhill wrote:
This...unless you want to send a tanker in harms way, the fighters do not have the loiter time as the ASW birds..


The P8s and fighters never leave international airspace, let alone tankers, so there's really no "harm's way" about it.

This is a big game that we've been playing since the 50s. No one's life is at stake any more than it normally is. The media loves to report these incidents as some sort of overt act of aggression, but that's not the case. We go poke around off their shores, still in international airspace, and they do the same thing. This isn't the WW3 people seem to think it is.


Until it is'nt and a collision occurs...as history has shown.
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Ozair
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Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:22 pm

bikerthai wrote:
Wouldn't you need to be more maneuverable to use a heat seaker? Wouldn't it be more logical to use a radar guided missile?


bt

AIM-9X is all aspect lock on after launch and maneuverability has little to do with launching a AIM-9. Sure you could do the same thing with an AIM-120 which could be fired lock on after launch or even probably go active on the rail but we are talking a self-defence capability. AIM-120 also has a home on jam capability so that might be advantageous in some circumstances as well. With either you would need to either visually identify the target for the missile or cue it using another sensor and launch off boresight. The P-8 doesn't have an A2A radar nor a HMS but does have an excellent EW suite which could potentially cue a missile.

The AIM-9X is actually probably the better option as it is dual role and can be used against ground targets as well,

Raytheon has adapted the heat-seeking AIM-9X to strike moving targets on the ground or in the water, adding another new capability for the formerly air-to-air-only missile.

The modification allows the same AIM-9X to strike both air and ground targets. Jeff White, Raytheon's business development manager for AIM-9X, declines to describe the modification in detail, but says it involves only software changes. The AIM-9X infrared seeker, proximity fuse and blast/fragmentation warhead remain unchanged.

During a 23 September Gulf of Mexico test, a US Air Force F-15C fired the air-to-surface AIM-9X and hit a speeding "cigar boat", a type commonly used by drug smugglers. "The missile went right through the boat," says White.

...

https://www.flightglobal.com/exclusive- ... 49.article

At this point in time though neither missile is integrated or planned for integration on the P-8.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:25 pm

The scenario I was thinking when you need a defensive AA missile is when you detect a hostile and is moving away. Thus, you need to shoot backward. The P-8I has an aft radar, so potentially, it could be used to cue to the missile in that situation.

Offensive AA would more likely be against lower threat target to the P-8, so I guess the 9X would be fine.

bt
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Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:43 pm

A turret-mounted gun would be better to enforce the 6 ft of social distancing.
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Ozair
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Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:40 am

bikerthai wrote:
The scenario I was thinking when you need a defensive AA missile is when you detect a hostile and is moving away. Thus, you need to shoot backward. The P-8I has an aft radar, so potentially, it could be used to cue to the missile in that situation.

Offensive AA would more likely be against lower threat target to the P-8, so I guess the 9X would be fine.

bt

I'm not aware of an aft radar for the P-8, A or I.

Image


As far as I know the USN P-8s don't have an A2A capability with their radar although this was a modification that was implemented for the Indian navy. Even without a rear radar as long as the AIM-120 or AIM-9X received sufficient cuing they could both be launched over the shoulder.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:15 am

Ozair wrote:
I'm not aware of an aft radar for the P-8, A or I.


If you look carefully at the large dome faring near the main landing gear, you may see the difference in shape between the A an the I configuration.

bt
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Ozair
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Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:44 am

bikerthai wrote:
Ozair wrote:
I'm not aware of an aft radar for the P-8, A or I.


If you look carefully at the large dome faring near the main landing gear, you may see the difference in shape between the A an the I configuration.

bt

The three current operators,

Image

Image

Image

Can you tell me what is different in the area you suggest?
 
ThePointblank
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Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:15 am

bikerthai wrote:
Ozair wrote:
I'm not aware of an aft radar for the P-8, A or I.


If you look carefully at the large dome faring near the main landing gear, you may see the difference in shape between the A an the I configuration.

bt

That dome houses the ESM scanner and the onboard inert gas generator.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:19 pm

The large dome near the main landing gear. The P-8I config looks taller and different shape form.
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889091
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Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:46 pm

If required, can/how does the crew bail out in-flight?
 
angad84
Posts: 2076
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:04 pm

Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:57 am

bikerthai wrote:
The large dome near the main landing gear. The P-8I config looks taller and different shape form.

Stop teasing!

The P-8I has a Telephonics OceanEye rader in the ventral dome, which the P-8As do not. That is what BT is referring to when he says aft radar.
 
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bikerthai
Posts: 3295
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:45 pm

Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:07 pm

889091 wrote:
If required, can/how does the crew bail out in-flight?


For the P-8, the aft right exit door is plugged. The aft left exit door was redesigned for bail out. Just watch out for the ventral when exiting.

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
DigitalSea
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:28 pm

Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:27 am

889091 wrote:
If required, can/how does the crew bail out in-flight?


Crawl into the sonar buoy ports and egress the aircraft expeditiously.
 
Bostrom
Posts: 941
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:30 pm

Ozair wrote:
Agree that is very close! The article above mentions some very close previous intercepts and shows this behaviour has been going on for a long time!

Image

A Soviet MiG-19 Farmer D less than 20 feet off the wing of an RB-47H on 24 September 1962. Soviet pilots were extremely aggressive and occasionally flew directly in front of the RB-47’s engines.


It was also not unheard of for an intercepting fighter to conduct a supersonic fly pass extremely close to the reconnaissance aircraft in an deliberate attempt to make it lose control.


They have a long history of being aggressive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalina_affair
 
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JetBuddy
Posts: 2557
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:04 am

Re: P-8 Poseidon, fighter escorts needed?

Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:41 pm

Bostrom wrote:
Ozair wrote:
Agree that is very close! The article above mentions some very close previous intercepts and shows this behaviour has been going on for a long time!

Image

A Soviet MiG-19 Farmer D less than 20 feet off the wing of an RB-47H on 24 September 1962. Soviet pilots were extremely aggressive and occasionally flew directly in front of the RB-47’s engines.


It was also not unheard of for an intercepting fighter to conduct a supersonic fly pass extremely close to the reconnaissance aircraft in an deliberate attempt to make it lose control.


They have a long history of being aggressive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalina_affair


Yep. Articles translated from Norwegian to English:

1987: Soviet SU-27 Flanker crashes into Royal Norwegian Air Force P-3 Orion.

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... 1.14837779

2012: Russian MiG-31 comes "uncomfortably close" to Royal Norwegian Air Force P-3 Orion.

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... -1.8082719

2017: Russian SU-27 nearly crashes into Swedish Air Force S 102 B survaillance aircraft.

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... lsesverdig

2018: Russian SU-27 nearly crashes into US Navy EP-3 Orion

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... k-spionfly

This happens a lot.

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