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889091
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Did the F-14 (all variants) have a Jet Fuel Starter?

Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:31 pm

Tried looking it up on the net, but couldn't find anything conclusive.
 
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LyleLanley
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Re: Did the F-14 (all variants) have a Jet Fuel Starter?

Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:15 pm

889091 wrote:
Tried looking it up on the net, but couldn't find anything conclusive.


No JFS in the mighty Tomcat. The huffer cart plugs in aft of the left main landing gear. Crossbleed start is available once an engine is started, and, of course, when inflight you can airstart in case of failure.
"I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrook, and, by gum, it put them on the map!"
 
889091
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Re: Did the F-14 (all variants) have a Jet Fuel Starter?

Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:03 pm

LyleLanley wrote:
889091 wrote:
Tried looking it up on the net, but couldn't find anything conclusive.


No JFS in the mighty Tomcat. The huffer cart plugs in aft of the left main landing gear. Crossbleed start is available once an engine is started, and, of course, when inflight you can airstart in case of failure.


Thanks LyleLanley. It is interesting to note that the F15 has a JFS, even though its EIS is only 2 years later than the Tomcat. I would have thought that space, being a premium commodity on a flat top, they would have included a JFS on the F14. Perhaps they didn't have the technology then.

What would happen if a F14 had to divert to an civilian airfield in case of an emergency - they wouldn't have an aircart handy. Would tanks of compressed air be sufficient to get the engines started? Or did the F14 have the provision for a cartridge start?
 
LMP737
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Re: Did the F-14 (all variants) have a Jet Fuel Starter?

Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:28 pm

889091 wrote:

Thanks LyleLanley. It is interesting to note that the F15 has a JFS, even though its EIS is only 2 years later than the Tomcat. I would have thought that space, being a premium commodity on a flat top, they would have included a JFS on the F14. Perhaps they didn't have the technology then.

What would happen if a F14 had to divert to an civilian airfield in case of an emergency - they wouldn't have an aircart handy. Would tanks of compressed air be sufficient to get the engines started? Or did the F14 have the provision for a cartridge start?


No cartridge start in a Tomcat. When doing cross countries Tomcat crews would plan their diverts to places that could support them. Which usually meant Naval Air Stations or USAF bases.

I remember hearing when I was in the Navy that there were plans to put an APU in the F-14D. It would have gone where fuel cell eight was, which is between vertical stabilizers. Since that was the smallest cell in the system the loss in the overall fuel capacity would have been negligible. However to keep costs down the decision was made not to incorporate it.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Did the F-14 (all variants) have a Jet Fuel Starter?

Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:59 pm

Relying on huffers was pretty common-T-38s, F-5, fighters up till the F-15 all required carts and many airports had them. I started a 727 off a cart once at KPIT.
 
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LyleLanley
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Re: Did the F-14 (all variants) have a Jet Fuel Starter?

Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:43 pm

Galaxy is spot-on as usual. As an add-on it’s also possible they may have nixed an APU because of weight or space, in the Tomcat. Remember the F-14 was already very heavy, and adding a luxury item APU/JFS would add not only weight but also $ to a program already over-budget and suffering due to rampant inflation of the dollar. Add to that every other jet on the deck used huffers and the novelty of not requiring one quickly wears off.

What happens if they divert to a civilian field without a huffer cart? The pilot and RIO call the squadron and sound contrite, then they high-five and enjoy the night life knowing they’ll be the talk of the town while they’re stuck there waiting for a cart to be flown/trucked in.

Rough life.
"I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrook, and, by gum, it put them on the map!"
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Did the F-14 (all variants) have a Jet Fuel Starter?

Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:39 am

Even cartridge start wasn’t foolproof, we didn’t carry the carts around on Hun cross-countries. Though after some expensive recoveries, we stopped cross-countries that didn’t terminate at KDMA with a tanker escort.
 
Max Q
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Re: Did the F-14 (all variants) have a Jet Fuel Starter?

Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:26 am

A little off topic but dispatched years ago to a Mexican destination with an inop APU for a turn around in the 727


No air start available so kept one engine running for the entire time on the ground and refueled like that following an AFM procedure


When ready to go we were able to crossbleed start the other two engines
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Did the F-14 (all variants) have a Jet Fuel Starter?

Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:51 pm

I saw a British Airways 747 at BDL diversion from JFK, same deal, left an engine running for a few hours.
 
LMP737
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Re: Did the F-14 (all variants) have a Jet Fuel Starter?

Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:10 pm

LyleLanley wrote:
As an add-on it’s also possible they may have nixed an APU because of weight or space, in the Tomcat. Remember the F-14 was already very heavy, and adding a luxury item APU/JFS would add not only weight but also $ to a program already over-budget and suffering due to rampant inflation of the dollar. Add to that every other jet on the deck used huffers and the novelty of not requiring one quickly wears off.


An APU was looked at for the D model initially. Space was not an issue as it would have gone in the place of fuel cell number 8. In the end it was a budget issue,

LyleLanley wrote:
What happens if they divert to a civilian field without a huffer cart? The pilot and RIO call the squadron and sound contrite, then they high-five and enjoy the night life knowing they’ll be the talk of the town while they’re stuck there waiting for a cart to be flown/trucked in.

Rough life.


If that were to have happened they had better have a had an issue where the only other option was Martin-Baker.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Did the F-14 (all variants) have a Jet Fuel Starter?

Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:08 am

LMP737 wrote:
LyleLanley wrote:
As an add-on it’s also possible they may have nixed an APU because of weight or space, in the Tomcat. Remember the F-14 was already very heavy, and adding a luxury item APU/JFS would add not only weight but also $ to a program already over-budget and suffering due to rampant inflation of the dollar. Add to that every other jet on the deck used huffers and the novelty of not requiring one quickly wears off.


An APU was looked at for the D model initially. Space was not an issue as it would have gone in the place of fuel cell number 8. In the end it was a budget issue,

LyleLanley wrote:
What happens if they divert to a civilian field without a huffer cart? The pilot and RIO call the squadron and sound contrite, then they high-five and enjoy the night life knowing they’ll be the talk of the town while they’re stuck there waiting for a cart to be flown/trucked in.

Rough life.


If that were to have happened they had better have a had an issue where the only other option was Martin-Baker.


Really? Divert and be criticized for choosing a nearby civil airport. Or you must land at a military field unless it’s a silk letdown.
 
LMP737
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Re: Did the F-14 (all variants) have a Jet Fuel Starter?

Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:08 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Really? Divert and be criticized for choosing a nearby civil airport. Or you must land at a military field unless it’s a silk letdown.


You need to read what I said.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
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LyleLanley
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Re: Did the F-14 (all variants) have a Jet Fuel Starter?

Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:30 pm

LMP737 wrote:
An APU was looked at for the D model initially. Space was not an issue as it would have gone in the place of fuel cell number 8. In the end it was a budget issue


No worries. I was really talking about the A model, and who knows, maybe the powers at be thought in the 60s/70s thought more about the gas at that point in time, when the Tomcat was the fuel-critical jet on the boat (compared to A-6s, A-7s, and the E-2) as compared to the D with its distinctly different gas advantage compared to other jets on the deck.

LMP737 wrote:
If that were to have happened they had better have a had an issue where the only other option was Martin-Baker.


Ever divert to Nashville?
"I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrook, and, by gum, it put them on the map!"
 
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spudh
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Re: Did the F-14 (all variants) have a Jet Fuel Starter?

Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:49 pm

I'd have to go digging to get the correct details but I think I recall reading a story about an exercise in the Indian Ocean or somewhere where a flight of F-14s got stuck aloft due to the onset of extreme sea state. Tankers had to be launched to get them to IIRC a civilian airport where to whole entourage had to sit and wait for said start carts.
The context of the tale was that harriers involved in the same exercise were able to recover to ship where the CATOBAR fighters were not.
 
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LyleLanley
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Re: Did the F-14 (all variants) have a Jet Fuel Starter?

Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:13 pm

I’m imagining diverting to Perth or Diego Garcia. Maybe Mauritius or the Seychelles. Definitely preferable to a night on the boat.
"I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrook, and, by gum, it put them on the map!"

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