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Can the F22 accelerate through M1 without afterburners?

Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:54 pm
by Max Q
I understand the F22 can cruise well above Mach one without using afterburners, in other words ‘supercruise’


But, like Concorde is it a profile where they use AB to get through the high drag, transonic region from subsonic to supersonic flight then you deselect them and sustain your speed or does the F22 have enough thrust to get through the ‘sound barrier’ without?

Re: Can the F22 accelerate through M1 without afterburners?

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:11 am
by GalaxyFlyer
I don’t know, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it could. I was waiting to go at the end of Edwards’ runway watching a test F-22 depart in basic engine with an F-16 in chase. The F-16 was 8b fill blower and slowly losing out. Impressive power.

Re: Can the F22 accelerate through M1 without afterburners?

Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:48 pm
by HaveBlue
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
I don’t know, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it could. I was waiting to go at the end of Edwards’ runway watching a test F-22 depart in basic engine with an F-16 in chase. The F-16 was 8b fill blower and slowly losing out. Impressive power.


What is '8b fill blower'? I assume you meant full blower but what is 8b?

Re: Can the F22 accelerate through M1 without afterburners?

Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:47 pm
by GalaxyFlyer
Auto correct again, “full blower”, can’t say about the ‘8b.

Re: Can the F22 accelerate through M1 without afterburners?

Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:13 pm
by 744SPX
Max Q wrote:
I understand the F22 can cruise well above Mach one without using afterburners, in other words ‘supercruise’


But, like Concorde is it a profile where they use AB to get through the high drag, transonic region from subsonic to supersonic flight then you deselect them and sustain your speed or does the F22 have enough thrust to get through the ‘sound barrier’ without?


I'm pretty sure it can, although its possible the most fuel efficient way to do it is still to use afterburner for a few seconds...

Re: Can the F22 accelerate through M1 without afterburners?

Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:13 am
by art
744SPX wrote:
Max Q wrote:
I understand the F22 can cruise well above Mach one without using afterburners, in other words ‘supercruise’


But, like Concorde is it a profile where they use AB to get through the high drag, transonic region from subsonic to supersonic flight then you deselect them and sustain your speed or does the F22 have enough thrust to get through the ‘sound barrier’ without?


I'm pretty sure it can, although its possible the most fuel efficient way to do it is still to use afterburner for a few seconds...


I believe that Concorde used reheat to reduce the fuel needed to pass through the transonic zone.

Having checked a source, this articles says reheat was switched on only 2 engines at a time, apparently to avoid the effects of too sharp an acceleration.

https://www.forces.net/technology/aircr ... s-two-time

Re: Can the F22 accelerate through M1 without afterburners?

Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:11 am
by 426Shadow
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
I don’t know, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it could. I was waiting to go at the end of Edwards’ runway watching a test F-22 depart in basic engine with an F-16 in chase. The F-16 was 8b fill blower and slowly losing out. Impressive power.


Well I saw a lot more test flights than you have considering where I work and I can say with certainty that what you was was the exception. The F-16 has no trouble keeping up with the F-22. The only time this might be an issue if is its covered with bags and has more loiter fuel than they really need while the F-22 is slick with relatively low fuel. In a clean config the F-16 will accelerate almost as fast as the F-22.

Re: Can the F22 accelerate through M1 without afterburners?

Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:44 am
by Ozair
744SPX wrote:
Max Q wrote:
I understand the F22 can cruise well above Mach one without using afterburners, in other words ‘supercruise’


But, like Concorde is it a profile where they use AB to get through the high drag, transonic region from subsonic to supersonic flight then you deselect them and sustain your speed or does the F22 have enough thrust to get through the ‘sound barrier’ without?


I'm pretty sure it can, although its possible the most fuel efficient way to do it is still to use afterburner for a few seconds...

Most fuel efficient and common method is a bunt. Trade altitude for speed and move quickly through the transsonic region before accelerating again using MIL or afterburner.