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ssteve
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:12 pm

CRJockey wrote:
Getting to see weaknesses of designs by recovering the booster over and over again might do wonders for reliability. That, after all, is how safety improvements in aviation work on the design reliability side.


That was the line before Challenger... turns out you also have to pay attention to what you're seeing.
 
CRJockey
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:30 pm

FGITD wrote:
CRJockey wrote:
FGITD wrote:

Might turn into the same way ships or aircraft are tested. Give the booster a shakedown flight, work out the issues, then into the general fleet rotation.

Would certainly be an interesting flip in space flight philosophy if suddenly the older equipment is considered more trustworthy.


Well wasn’t that already the case with Soyuz? Very old and for a long time very reliable?

Getting to see weaknesses of designs by recovering the booster over and over again might do wonders for reliability. That, after all, is how safety improvements in aviation work on the design reliability side.


It is true for Soyuz, but I think the value lies in the details. Soyuz has proven itself as a reliable system. Falcon is taking that a step higher, and proving that individual boosters are reliable. The difference of course is that with Soyuz you know the whole process has a good reputation, whereas with a Falcon you can look at the reputation that the individual booster has.


Hmm, yeah, maybe. With growing numbers of boosters, though, I don't see why a "familiy" reliability shouldn't be achieved, just as in other larger batches of flying vehicles. Apart from geeks, people will not follow individual booster reliablilty much beyond a dozen or two in operation. And design improvements will surely trickle down in the system to individual boosters.

Anyway, fascinating stuff, I have to admit. If somebody ten years ago would have said we achieve turn times of space vehicles approaching six weeks, I would have just left for home. Now we are here.
 
CRJockey
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:33 pm

ssteve wrote:
CRJockey wrote:
Getting to see weaknesses of designs by recovering the booster over and over again might do wonders for reliability. That, after all, is how safety improvements in aviation work on the design reliability side.


That was the line before Challenger... turns out you also have to pay attention to what you're seeing.


Well, yeah. No reason to believe, though, SpaceX would make that same mistake. If I remember correctly, Challenger was more or less a failure of organizational culture at NASA first and foremost.
 
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Tugger
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:47 pm

Found this pretty neat animation on how the fuel flows function for the Starship. Thought people here might find it interesting as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KycyWcxWTcY

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
CRJockey
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:30 pm

Tugger wrote:
Found this pretty neat animation on how the fuel flows function for the Starship. Thought people here might find it interesting as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KycyWcxWTcY

Tugg


Neat - thanks for sharing.
 
texl1649
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:00 pm

Launch window closed today, apparently scrubbed until Thursday for now.
 
FGITD
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:47 am

CRJockey wrote:
ssteve wrote:
CRJockey wrote:
Getting to see weaknesses of designs by recovering the booster over and over again might do wonders for reliability. That, after all, is how safety improvements in aviation work on the design reliability side.


That was the line before Challenger... turns out you also have to pay attention to what you're seeing.


Well, yeah. No reason to believe, though, SpaceX would make that same mistake. If I remember correctly, Challenger was more or less a failure of organizational culture at NASA first and foremost.


I’m not so sure SpaceX wouldn’t make the same mistakes at some point. Keep landing falcons easily, land the same one 5, 10, 20 times...you get comfortable. NASA got comfortable with STS alarmingly fast, and look where that led.

For X however I do have more faith, because these boosters are their business. Losing boosters, or a loss of commercial faith in them would be a financial disaster.
 
Zeppi
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:37 am

Looks like SN9 will go for it today!
 
texl1649
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:04 pm

FGITD wrote:
CRJockey wrote:
ssteve wrote:

That was the line before Challenger... turns out you also have to pay attention to what you're seeing.


Well, yeah. No reason to believe, though, SpaceX would make that same mistake. If I remember correctly, Challenger was more or less a failure of organizational culture at NASA first and foremost.


I’m not so sure SpaceX wouldn’t make the same mistakes at some point. Keep landing falcons easily, land the same one 5, 10, 20 times...you get comfortable. NASA got comfortable with STS alarmingly fast, and look where that led.

For X however I do have more faith, because these boosters are their business. Losing boosters, or a loss of commercial faith in them would be a financial disaster.


Haven’t they already landed an individual Falcon more times successfully than a single shuttle ever did? Regardless, the current F9 streak is definitely longer than any STS one without a loss of vehicle.
 
mxaxai
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:46 pm

texl1649 wrote:
Haven’t they already landed an individual Falcon more times successfully than a single shuttle ever did? Regardless, the current F9 streak is definitely longer than any STS one without a loss of vehicle.

The most flown shuttle was Discovery with 39 launches.

The longest period between shuttle losses was from Challenger to Columbia, a total of 87 flights. The last loss of a Falcon 9 payload was in 2016, there have been 71 successful launches since. The last loss of a F9 booster was last year, there have been 23 successful landings since then.

At the current pace, and assuming no further mishaps, F9 will surpass STS in the number of successful launches in a row this year, probably around July.

Assuming a 40-day turnaround for each booster, or 9 launches per year, the first booster to pass Discovery could be expected in about 3-4 years.
 
Okie
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:30 pm

Zeppi wrote:
Looks like SN9 will go for it today!


Couple of man lifts disconnecting the safety chains on the upper flaps is a pretty good indication. (1.28.21) :bigthumbsup:

Okie
 
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Tugger
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:07 pm

She is flapping her wings!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky5l9ZxsG9M&t=0s

(You'll have to go back to find it now.)

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
Okie
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:08 pm

TFR for 01.28.21 cancelled when I looked a while ago but still on for 01.29.21 unless they reupdate TFR's


Okie

transmitted via smoke signal from mobile device
 
Zeppi
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:57 pm

Looked like a scrub for today, but now they're loading propellant. Let's see, maybe go after all :)
 
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casinterest
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:12 pm

Zeppi wrote:
Looked like a scrub for today, but now they're loading propellant. Let's see, maybe go after all :)



Looks like they stopped.

Can't wait to see this Test though.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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casinterest
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:13 pm

casinterest wrote:
Zeppi wrote:
Looked like a scrub for today, but now they're loading propellant. Let's see, maybe go after all :)



Looks like they stopped.

Can't wait to see this Test though.


Well now the tank is venting again......
T-17 m per Tim for now.


I guess a 19:30 GMT ish attempt for now
maybe 20:00 GMT Engine Chill looks to be occurring.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
Okie
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:23 pm

There is a new TFR listed 1/8565 for today.

So they use subchilled LN2 and LO2 so they are at least detanking and retanking with completely chilled propellant.

Best I can remember that is about an hour and half process.

They can only hold the subchilled liquid propellent for a short period of time in the rocket before its density changes enough to lose the excess energy from the subchilled propellant.


Okie

I guess that means I will be sitting in my office for about a couple hours.
 
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Tugger
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:14 pm

Scrubbed for today apparently. Looking to tomorrow. And Elon is unhappy with FAA bureaucracy... no surprise there.
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
Okie
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:38 pm

Tugger wrote:
Scrubbed for today apparently. Looking to tomorrow. And Elon is unhappy with FAA bureaucracy... no surprise there.


I suspect the FAA will get worse on requirements. They sort of got egg on their face with the MAX. Probably at least require a 24 hour notice.

I checked the TFR's earlier for today although there was one for tomorrow 1/7363 later today 1/8565 popped up for today but possibly not enough notice time wise to allow proper notification for aircraft flights already in progress.

Nothing like departing with no TFR issued and run smack into Eileen mid flight.

Okie
 
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Francoflier
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:50 pm

Tugger wrote:
And Elon is unhappy with FAA bureaucracy... no surprise there.


Image

Space Karen demands to speak to the FAA manager...
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
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kitplane01
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:16 am

If there is anything cooler in all of aerospace in 2020-2021 than SpaceX, I'd love to hear about it.

SLS -- SpaceX actually flies.
F-35 -- Old hat, boring, many problems
SB-1 Defiant -- Actually kinda cool, but not *that* cool.
Hyrbid Airships -- Also cool, but seem not to be moving forward.
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:54 pm

SN9 launch scrubbed today by FAA refusal to grant authority (They did grant it this morning and 2 hours later recalled it). Does anyone have any insight? Is this a Space X Engineering/Safety issue or an FAA flexing it muscles?
 
Okie
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:22 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
SN9 launch scrubbed today by FAA refusal to grant authority (They did grant it this morning and 2 hours later recalled it). Does anyone have any insight? Is this a Space X Engineering/Safety issue or an FAA flexing it muscles?


These are prototypes. The FAA has to approve the engineering on each prototype as there are massive changes during development.
So until SpaceX comes up with a "Production" model then FAA will have to review all changes of the experimental design.

I pointed out before, after the MAX confabulation then the FAA is not going to allow "changes or upgrades of development in experimental designs" without a review.

Okie

edit to add: the TFR comes from a different group at FAA than those that give approval for flight.
 
Zeppi
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:20 pm

Thanks for that Okie.

I was also wondering what the reasoning behind that was, the Starships didn't just magically appear over night after all. But this makes total sense, from a purely buerocratic view at least :)
 
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Tugger
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:39 am

Well some interesting info on why the launches aren't happening.
SpaceX’s first high-altitude test flight of its Starship rocket, which launched successfully but exploded in a botched landing attempt in December, violated the terms of its Federal Aviation Administration test license, according to two people familiar with the incident. Both the landing explosion and license violation prompted a formal investigation by the FAA, driving regulators to put extra scrutiny on Elon Musk’s hasty Mars rocket test campaign.

The December test launch of the “Serial Number 8” Starship prototype at SpaceX’s Boca Chica, Texas, facilities was hailed by Musk as a success: “Mars, here we come!!” the chief executive tweeted moments after the rocket exploded on its landing, celebrating SN8’s successful 8-mile-high ascent with his followers. The FAA, which oversees ground safety and issues licenses for private launches, was not so happy.

The so-called mishap investigation was opened that week, focusing not only on the explosive landing but on SpaceX’s refusal to stick to the terms of what the FAA authorized, the two people said. It was unclear what part of the test flight violated the FAA license, and an FAA spokesman declined to specify in a statement to The Verge.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/29/2225 ... -elon-musk

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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AirlineCritic
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:28 am

Plot thickens!
 
GDB
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:03 am

Musk needs to cut the attitude, does he really think these launches are going to be helped by his going after the regulators, no Elon the biggest threat, right now, to your ambitions is your temper.
Less from him more from his Deputy at SpaceX.
 
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Nomadd
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 4:36 pm

You might not want to bet the farm on anonymous source articles.
 
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Tugger
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:13 pm

Nomadd wrote:
You might not want to bet the farm on anonymous source articles.

Fair enough. But nature abhors a vacuum and people with no information even more so.

And I don't "just believe", it just adds to the information I find and is evaluated as we move forward.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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Nomadd
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:57 pm

GDB wrote:
Musk needs to cut the attitude.

Close. He needs to cut the altitude. Most of the FAA issue is working out how high the flight can go. Almost all of the public "insider" news regarding the subject is complete garbage.
There are about four people claiming to work for SpaceX for every one that does. And most of the ones that do know no more about plans and problems than is publicly available.
And even the ones that do know almost everything didn't know about the secret project to reassemble SN8.
 
FGITD
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:59 pm

Nomadd wrote:
GDB wrote:
Musk needs to cut the attitude.

Close. He needs to cut the altitude. Most of the FAA issue is working out how high the flight can go. Almost all of the public "insider" news regarding the subject is complete garbage.
There are about four people claiming to work for SpaceX for every one that does. And most of the ones that do know no more about plans and problems than is publicly available.
And even the ones that do know almost everything didn't know about the secret project to reassemble SN8.


Something I always enjoy about the “insiders.” The ones that know aren’t the ones out telling everyone the problems. It’s almost certainly a very specific, and most likely predominantly administrative department that would handle this type of info. And they aren’t out telling the world their updates.

Regardless of what the issue is, I think the way forward for both SpaceX and the FAA is to make sure these early flights are all checked out to the FAA’s desired level, and go as they should (relatively speaking, for a test flight that some expect to go boom when they light the engines) And once there’s a decent pattern, work to streamline the process. It may not be the pressing issue, but I don’t doubt that the FAA division responsible isn’t accustomed to having a private company file for test flights so frequently.
 
GDB
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:57 pm

FGITD wrote:
Nomadd wrote:
GDB wrote:
Musk needs to cut the attitude.

Close. He needs to cut the altitude. Most of the FAA issue is working out how high the flight can go. Almost all of the public "insider" news regarding the subject is complete garbage.
There are about four people claiming to work for SpaceX for every one that does. And most of the ones that do know no more about plans and problems than is publicly available.
And even the ones that do know almost everything didn't know about the secret project to reassemble SN8.


Something I always enjoy about the “insiders.” The ones that know aren’t the ones out telling everyone the problems. It’s almost certainly a very specific, and most likely predominantly administrative department that would handle this type of info. And they aren’t out telling the world their updates.

Regardless of what the issue is, I think the way forward for both SpaceX and the FAA is to make sure these early flights are all checked out to the FAA’s desired level, and go as they should (relatively speaking, for a test flight that some expect to go boom when they light the engines) And once there’s a decent pattern, work to streamline the process. It may not be the pressing issue, but I don’t doubt that the FAA division responsible isn’t accustomed to having a private company file for test flights so frequently.


Fair comment, adding to my point that Musk is easily smart enough to know all this, so maybe less tweeting and more meeting.
 
FGITD
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:08 pm

GDB wrote:
FGITD wrote:
Nomadd wrote:
Close. He needs to cut the altitude. Most of the FAA issue is working out how high the flight can go. Almost all of the public "insider" news regarding the subject is complete garbage.
There are about four people claiming to work for SpaceX for every one that does. And most of the ones that do know no more about plans and problems than is publicly available.
And even the ones that do know almost everything didn't know about the secret project to reassemble SN8.


Something I always enjoy about the “insiders.” The ones that know aren’t the ones out telling everyone the problems. It’s almost certainly a very specific, and most likely predominantly administrative department that would handle this type of info. And they aren’t out telling the world their updates.

Regardless of what the issue is, I think the way forward for both SpaceX and the FAA is to make sure these early flights are all checked out to the FAA’s desired level, and go as they should (relatively speaking, for a test flight that some expect to go boom when they light the engines) And once there’s a decent pattern, work to streamline the process. It may not be the pressing issue, but I don’t doubt that the FAA division responsible isn’t accustomed to having a private company file for test flights so frequently.


Fair comment, adding to my point that Musk is easily smart enough to know all this, so maybe less tweeting and more meeting.


I have an internal battle over Musk. I like the work his companies do, and the advancement that he’s been willing to push forward using some of his wealth. But good God the man is insufferable.

Just living proof that sometimes you have to be able to separate the achievements from the achiever
 
CRJockey
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:14 pm

FGITD wrote:
GDB wrote:
FGITD wrote:

Something I always enjoy about the “insiders.” The ones that know aren’t the ones out telling everyone the problems. It’s almost certainly a very specific, and most likely predominantly administrative department that would handle this type of info. And they aren’t out telling the world their updates.

Regardless of what the issue is, I think the way forward for both SpaceX and the FAA is to make sure these early flights are all checked out to the FAA’s desired level, and go as they should (relatively speaking, for a test flight that some expect to go boom when they light the engines) And once there’s a decent pattern, work to streamline the process. It may not be the pressing issue, but I don’t doubt that the FAA division responsible isn’t accustomed to having a private company file for test flights so frequently.


Fair comment, adding to my point that Musk is easily smart enough to know all this, so maybe less tweeting and more meeting.


I have an internal battle over Musk. I like the work his companies do, and the advancement that he’s been willing to push forward using some of his wealth. But good God the man is insufferable.

Just living proof that sometimes you have to be able to separate the achievements from the achiever


I hear you. On the other hand, I hazard the guess that his personality and his inability to accept beaurocracy and business obstacles is what enabled him to acquire the vast wealth he can now invest in his projects.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:34 pm

FGITD wrote:
GDB wrote:
FGITD wrote:

Something I always enjoy about the “insiders.” The ones that know aren’t the ones out telling everyone the problems. It’s almost certainly a very specific, and most likely predominantly administrative department that would handle this type of info. And they aren’t out telling the world their updates.

Regardless of what the issue is, I think the way forward for both SpaceX and the FAA is to make sure these early flights are all checked out to the FAA’s desired level, and go as they should (relatively speaking, for a test flight that some expect to go boom when they light the engines) And once there’s a decent pattern, work to streamline the process. It may not be the pressing issue, but I don’t doubt that the FAA division responsible isn’t accustomed to having a private company file for test flights so frequently.


Fair comment, adding to my point that Musk is easily smart enough to know all this, so maybe less tweeting and more meeting.


I have an internal battle over Musk. I like the work his companies do, and the advancement that he’s been willing to push forward using some of his wealth. But good God the man is insufferable.

Just living proof that sometimes you have to be able to separate the achievements from the achiever


Musk is like a brilliant writer. You need a brilliant editor to curb the worst parts and add some polish. In SpaceX they've got Shotwell who keeps the lights on and helps temper Musk's worst habits. So you can be both amazed by his willingness to try the seemingly crazy, and hate his arrogance and destructive social habits.

Also remember at this point for SpaceX, Musk is as much a figurehead as a technical person. There's a huge team working on all of these things.
 
WIederling
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:35 pm

ssteve wrote:
CRJockey wrote:
Getting to see weaknesses of designs by recovering the booster over and over again might do wonders for reliability. That, after all, is how safety improvements in aviation work on the design reliability side.


That was the line before Challenger... turns out you also have to pay attention to what you're seeing.


Before that you have to care and actually look ( and/or heed advice from engineers.)

Both shuttle crashes were "dumb mishaps". unnecessary. caused by self-serving bureaucrats.

Jerry Pournelle, paleo conservative, SF-Author:
Pournelle's iron law of bureaucracy

His best-known "law" is "Pournelle's iron law of bureaucracy":

In any bureaucracy, the people devoted to the benefit of the bureaucracy itself always get in control and those dedicated to the goals the bureaucracy is supposed to accomplish have less and less influence, and sometimes are eliminated entirely.
Murphy is an optimist
 
GDB
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Mon Feb 01, 2021 5:19 pm

WIederling wrote:
ssteve wrote:
CRJockey wrote:
Getting to see weaknesses of designs by recovering the booster over and over again might do wonders for reliability. That, after all, is how safety improvements in aviation work on the design reliability side.


That was the line before Challenger... turns out you also have to pay attention to what you're seeing.


Before that you have to care and actually look ( and/or heed advice from engineers.)

Both shuttle crashes were "dumb mishaps". unnecessary. caused by self-serving bureaucrats.

Jerry Pournelle, paleo conservative, SF-Author:
Pournelle's iron law of bureaucracy

His best-known "law" is "Pournelle's iron law of bureaucracy":

In any bureaucracy, the people devoted to the benefit of the bureaucracy itself always get in control and those dedicated to the goals the bureaucracy is supposed to accomplish have less and less influence, and sometimes are eliminated entirely.


I would argue that it was flawed from it's inception, yes and politics, originally the SRB's were to be one piece, built by UTC, to be refurbished at the Cape.
In 1972 the contracts were going out and Tricky Dicky wanted others to benefit, hence the choice of contractor, who were experts in small solid rockets but these things? Solution, and for their re-furb at their plant out West, make them into segments and put them on a train.
The segmenting really came back to bite in Jan 1986, for a frivolous flight.

No escape system.

By removing the paint from the external tank you got more payload, fine until Feb 2003.

Conclusion, they wanted to do a huge leap in engineering, a reusable orbiter but do it on the cheap, at least cheap for what they were asking, hence the use of massive SRB's, not fully reusable with the ET.
 
WIederling
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:00 pm

GDB wrote:
The segmenting really came back to bite in Jan 1986, for a frivolous flight.

No escape system.

By removing the paint from the external tank you got more payload, fine until Feb 2003.

Conclusion, they wanted to do a huge leap in engineering, a reusable orbiter but do it on the cheap, at least cheap for what they were asking, hence the use of massive SRB's, not fully reusable with the ET.


SRBs: what bit was starting while not inside the certified temp envelope.

ET: what bit was exchanging one kind of foam with a "no chlorofluorocarbon" expanded polymer foam on environmental concerns.
A dumb idea. there is a good reason why fire exstinguishing installations on airplanes still use Halon. it works.

In the ET case it was a rare use case that had low environmental impact either way.
but the PR dept. wanted it.
Murphy is an optimist
 
jollo
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:20 pm

Fascinating discussion about STS, but I'm missing one piece of information back on-topic: do we know what aspect of SN8's flight irked FAA? Do we know for a fact that it got higher than the authorized flight envelope? I cannot think of any other parameters that could be blown, as it went straight up and back down: did I miss something? Thanks
 
FGITD
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:54 am

jollo wrote:
Fascinating discussion about STS, but I'm missing one piece of information back on-topic: do we know what aspect of SN8's flight irked FAA? Do we know for a fact that it got higher than the authorized flight envelope? I cannot think of any other parameters that could be blown, as it went straight up and back down: did I miss something? Thanks


So far no one outside the FAA or SpaceX seems to know, and most likely won’t for awhile, if ever.

But the rumors are that it flew higher than planned, and also that the FAA took issue with the engine swaps.

I think the bigger question is where the communication breakdown occurred. Basically...why did SpaceX believe that they were ok to fly last week? This doesn't seem like the type of thing either the FAA or X would leave to the last minute.
 
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Nomadd
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Tue Feb 02, 2021 6:49 am

I'd advise against giving anonymously sourced stories so much credit.

SN9 will try to make it off the pad this afternoon.
 
Zeppi
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:25 am

Nomadd wrote:
SN9 will try to make it off the pad this afternoon.


Hoping for a good one, and a landing in one piece :highfive:
 
Okie
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:54 pm

Nomadd wrote:
SN9 will try to make it off the pad this afternoon.


Checking at 9:45a local. Crane is on the move, workers on SN10, track hoe hard at work close by, so I would suspect other activities on site to stop to clear area for safety reasons.

So when other external activities to SN 9 stop I would guess a couple hours later before launch try.

Okie
 
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Nomadd
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:57 pm

I've been instructed to get out of town by 1100 local.
 
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casinterest
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:30 pm

Looks like Starship SN9 is venting.
Maybe a 2:55 EST launch?

I am sure holds will happen, so maybe 3:00 EST without a needed delay?

Hold, maybe 3:30/4:00 EST

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4-PwxnJimg
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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casinterest
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:21 pm

Spacex has started an official stream :)

Going to happen in 4 minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zZ7fIkpBgs
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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Stitch
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:32 pm

Looked good right to the end...when it went wrong even more impressively.
 
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casinterest
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:32 pm

RIP SN9 :)
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
zanl188
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:33 pm

Appeared to be a good flight. Still need to work on landing however....
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
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casinterest
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2021

Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:36 pm

Looks like only one engine relit. The explosion probably made cleanup a bit easier in terms of size, harder in terms of debris field.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
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