Stitch wrote:

Yeah that was awesome to see "Of Course I Still Love You" during the final descent and then actual touchdown on the pad.

i loved seeing the first stage power away after separation....

best regards
Thomas

SamYeager2016 wrote:

CRJockey wrote:

ssteve wrote:

And if troops go along, why of course they'll be Starship Troopers.

beauty of a movie...

With all due respect, the book's marvellous, the movie rather less so IMO.

The film is a deliberate parody of the book, since the director lived under Nazi occupation in Holland and knew the book's author was somewhat pro fascist including in that novel, however the parody went over the heads of most of the audience. The uniforms are a bit of a give away and the references to discredited democracy throughout.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Troopers_(film)

As for Starship, the real one not the Troopers, I don't see it being rated to carry people for a long time. If current plans come to pass once flying missions not tests, it will likely be busy delivering stuff (including fuel) to LEO and the Moon. The Lunar version will of course carry people to the Lunar surface and back to Lunar orbit. Not the regular version with that re-entry.

In terms of video feed, that may have been the best launch yet.

Everything from the separation to the landing. It’s incredible to see just how quickly F9 separates and immediately begins slowing and turning right back

CRJockey wrote:

texl1649 wrote:

Naturally, the Chinese have plans for a copy cat as well, with plausible military implications.

I would really hope, that at least in one of the best & civil threads we would spare ourselves such politics. There aren't a dozen different ways of building rockets and other highly on basic physics dependable machines. So what must happen that you wouldn't consider the Chinese copying?

Still feel that way? LOL, the CCP apologists deny any copying.

https://youtu.be/sok1_6pKHOw

texl1649 wrote:

CRJockey wrote:

texl1649 wrote:

Naturally, the Chinese have plans for a copy cat as well, with plausible military implications.

I would really hope, that at least in one of the best & civil threads we would spare ourselves such politics. There aren't a dozen different ways of building rockets and other highly on basic physics dependable machines. So what must happen that you wouldn't consider the Chinese copying?

Still feel that way? LOL, the CCP apologists deny any copying.

https://youtu.be/sok1_6pKHOw

The Angry Astronaut as source?

texl1649 wrote:

CRJockey wrote:

texl1649 wrote:

Naturally, the Chinese have plans for a copy cat as well, with plausible military implications.

I would really hope, that at least in one of the best & civil threads we would spare ourselves such politics. There aren't a dozen different ways of building rockets and other highly on basic physics dependable machines. So what must happen that you wouldn't consider the Chinese copying?

Still feel that way? LOL, the CCP apologists deny any copying.

https://youtu.be/sok1_6pKHOw

Take that guy seriously? His long rants?
In any case, even IF the Chinese are looking to copy Starship or something like it, does anyone need reminding whose technology effectively formed the basis of the US space program, including up to now their greatest launcher, the Saturn V?
The leaders of this group were also frankly war criminals, deeply implicated in the use of slavery from concentration camps.

(You have to wonder whether they still would have been acceptable if one of the several schemes likely to be possible before the regime these scientists worked for fell, such as launching V-2's from U-Boats off the US coast, while having no effect on the war but causing the only 'bombing' of US soil and likely civilian casualties).

In any case, the idea of point to point pax Starship is a very long way off, if ever, we've seen how it is planned to work but for commercial pax? Hard to see.
It is also one thing to seek to say do a Starship copy, quite another to successfully do it, China has made major strides in many areas of technology and there is a reason why the US at least, exclude them from the ISS as well as wider concerns such as those destructive ASAT tests. For all that, SpaceX so Starship are the result of a person who would not be able to do this in the CCP, more to the point assemble the teams he has to make it happen, then that vital link up with NASA and the subsequent contracts. (Does Mr Angry in his many rants against NASA even acknowledge this).

In the case of these planned military applications, this better informed, more balanced commentator has serious doubts about that, providing reasons why as well as demonstrating it's not such a new idea;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOKm-qKACv8

Another successful launch - with crisp video feed from both the first stage, and the drone ship.

Clearest landing footage yet from both the onboard video and the droneship camera... Also the softest F9 landing I've seen so far. (though hard to judge as for most of the previous ones the feed was always lost during the landing itself...).

This was the first foray into reusability for the USSF, which wanted a booster that was only used on one of their own mission as a first step. This success opens the door for them to use more flight-proven boosters and fairings in future launches.

The SpaceX Transporter-2 mission that was supposed to have launched today got scrubbed due to a range violation:

https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/14099 ... 83648?s=19

Someone is going to getting a phone call over this... And the comments are suggesting it was a Southwest Airline flight that busted the TFR...

Awwwww, I'm in love with these comics: https://twitter.com/daily_hopper

They're SpaceX-centered, ya know...

I’ve been following the artist for awhile, great little bit of humor and personality to the starships etc.

Seeing BN3 rolled out really gets me excited for the first orbital launch. Not that the Falcon series has ever been “ordinary” but watching a starship launch into orbit is going to be unlike anything else we’ve ever seen, even for those fortunate enough to witness the Saturn V launches. It’s going to be big, loud, powerful, and perhaps most importantly…it’s all going to come back. (Though not right away)

Static-fire test of the booster today? Anyone?

This week, the company added three Raptor rocket engines to Booster 3 and told area residents it may conduct a static fire test of the vehicle as soon as Thursday, July 15. The road closure schedule indicates a potential test window from noon, local time, to 10 pm (17:00 UTC Thursday to 03:00 UTC Friday).

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/07/spacex-will-soon-fire-up-its-massive-super-heavy-booster-for-the-first-time/

aumaverick wrote:

Static-fire test of the booster today? Anyone?

This week, the company added three Raptor rocket engines to Booster 3 and told area residents it may conduct a static fire test of the vehicle as soon as Thursday, July 15. The road closure schedule indicates a potential test window from noon, local time, to 10 pm (17:00 UTC Thursday to 03:00 UTC Friday).

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/07/spacex-will-soon-fire-up-its-massive-super-heavy-booster-for-the-first-time/

Road closures canceled for today, so no go. But it looks like mon-wed next week there are daily closures.

Also section 8 of the launch tower showed up, so it’s possible that they pushed things back so they can stack it in the next couple days. Amazing how a few months ago for the last Starship tests there was just a couple basic stands, now suddenly there’s a massive launch tower.

I'm eager for the 33-engine static fire.

I wonder how the test stand is holding up...

BN3 successfully completed 3 engine static fire about 30 minutes ago.

https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa ... er-mission

SpaceX won the contract for a 2024 Falcon Heavy launch. Seems FH is a nice program to keep in their back pocket. Might not launch every few months, but a good option to keep open. One of the reasons I don’t fully believe that Starship will ever be their end-all-be-all rocket option.

If I remember correctly they wanted to use the SLS to launch the next Jupiter probe.
I guess that $ 2 billion per launch was just way too much.
Hopefully with SpaceX and their much cheaper FH and Starship NASA will be able to send more probes to the outer solar system

https://spacenews.com/cost-growth-promp ... struments/

NASA remains engaged in a debate with Congress about how to launch Europa Clipper. Congress has for several years mandated the use of SLS for the mission as well as a follow-on Europa lander mission. NASA has requested the ability to use other vehicles, citing cost savings and the lack of available SLS vehicles, which for the next several years are devoted to the Artemis lunar exploration program.

bajs11 wrote:

Hopefully with SpaceX and their much cheaper FH and Starship NASA will be able to send more probes to the outer solar system

With cheaper launches but reduced initial velocity. Flight time to Jupiter is nearly twice as long with FH.

The planned trajectory is the same as outlined in the solicitation, with a launch during a 21-day window in October 2024, with the spacecraft arriving at Jupiter in April 2030. The Mars Earth Gravity Assist, or MEGA, trajectory includes a flyby of Mars in February 2025 and of Earth in December 2026.

A drawback of using a commercial launch vehicle is that circuitous route, as a launch on SLS would have allowed Europa Clipper to go directly to Jupiter, arriving less than three years after launch. That longer cruise will increase operations costs for the mission, said Jan Chodas, project manager for Europa Clipper at JPL, during the meeting.

https://spacenews.com/nasa-to-use-comme ... a-clipper/

mxaxai wrote:

bajs11 wrote:

Hopefully with SpaceX and their much cheaper FH and Starship NASA will be able to send more probes to the outer solar system

With cheaper launches but reduced initial velocity. Flight time to Jupiter is nearly twice as long with FH.

The planned trajectory is the same as outlined in the solicitation, with a launch during a 21-day window in October 2024, with the spacecraft arriving at Jupiter in April 2030. The Mars Earth Gravity Assist, or MEGA, trajectory includes a flyby of Mars in February 2025 and of Earth in December 2026.

A drawback of using a commercial launch vehicle is that circuitous route, as a launch on SLS would have allowed Europa Clipper to go directly to Jupiter, arriving less than three years after launch. That longer cruise will increase operations costs for the mission, said Jan Chodas, project manager for Europa Clipper at JPL, during the meeting.

https://spacenews.com/nasa-to-use-comme ... a-clipper/

Well at least it will be faster than Galileo.

What's interesting is the value of the contract:

NASA announced July 23 that it awarded a launch services contract to SpaceX for the October 2024 launch of Europa Clipper on a Falcon Heavy rocket. The contract is valued at $178 million.

NASA, in its fiscal year 2021 budget request, argued that a commercial launch could save the agency “over $1.5 billion compared to using a Space Launch System rocket.” By contrast, a NASA Office of Inspector General report in 2019 concluded the cost difference could be less than $300 million, although that study estimated the cost of a Falcon Heavy launch at $450 million, more than twice the value of the contract awarded to SpaceX.

Is it safe to assume that they will land at least the 2 side boosters?

As much as I want Europa Clipper to get to Jupiter ASAP, if they can save significant amounts of money ($500 million or more), that can be directed to help fund new programs. Hell, $1.5 billion is a nice down payment on another Flagship / Large Strategic Science mission (like maybe the Titan Saturn System Mission that lost out to Europa Clipper).

bajs11 wrote:

If I remember correctly they wanted to use the SLS to launch the next Jupiter probe.
I guess that $ 2 billion per launch was just way too much.
Hopefully with SpaceX and their much cheaper FH and Starship NASA will be able to send more probes to the outer solar system

https://spacenews.com/cost-growth-promp ... struments/

NASA remains engaged in a debate with Congress about how to launch Europa Clipper. Congress has for several years mandated the use of SLS for the mission as well as a follow-on Europa lander mission. NASA has requested the ability to use other vehicles, citing cost savings and the lack of available SLS vehicles, which for the next several years are devoted to the Artemis lunar exploration program.

The bigger issue being reported is that they've discovered that SLS has a vibration issue (the delays to SLS were also a factor as well).

Eric Berger at Ars Technica notes this:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/07 ... ain-price/

Finally, what forced Shelby and the rest of Congress to give in was a "shaking" issue with the SLS rocket. This large vehicle is powered off the pad by two very large solid rocket boosters that produce significant vibrations. SLS program officials had been telling the agency's leadership that the torsional load—essentially a measurement of twisting and vibration—was a certain value. However, after NASA performed wind-tunnel testing, the actual torsional load value was nearly double the SLS program estimates.

Accommodating for this launch stress, NASA officials told Ars, would have required an additional $1 billion in modifications to make the spacecraft more robust. That additional cost was ultimately what led NASA to be able to make Friday's announcement.

Basically, the selection of Falcon Heavy was driven by the ability to use a kick stage with the FH, which would remove the need for a gravity assist from Venus, and therefore it would not have to go into the inner Solar System. The alternative, Delta IV Heavy, could not carry the kick stage, and thus would require a Venus gravity assist, which would require a redesign of the thermal shielding for Europa Clipper.

Blue Origin's protest of the SpaceX award of the Human Landing System contract has been denied:

https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/30/2260 ... nar-lander

Blue Origin’s protest against NASA’s decision to pick just one company to build the country’s first human lunar lander in decades was denied by the Government Accountability Office (GAO), the watchdog agency said Friday, also denying a similar protest from Dynetics. The decision keeps Blue Origin’s rival, Elon Musk’s SpaceX, the sole winner of NASA’s lucrative Moon lander program and hands a loss to Jeff Bezos, whose space company waged a months-long fight to win the same funding.

As such, Lunar Starship is now a go for NASA.

Reading this morning that Boca Chica has been an extremely busy place the last few days, with SpaceX flying in as many stars as possible to push through to the orbital launch. Allegedly Musk has established a deadline for both vehicles to be ready for stacking by Aug 5.

FGITD wrote:

Reading this morning that Boca Chica has been an extremely busy place the last few days, with SpaceX flying in as many stars as possible to push through to the orbital launch. Allegedly Musk has established a deadline for both vehicles to be ready for stacking by Aug 5.

Have you seen Marcus House's channel on You Tube, he does a weekly update on space but most Saturday uploads concentrate on the extremely rapid progress at the site?

GDB wrote:

FGITD wrote:

Reading this morning that Boca Chica has been an extremely busy place the last few days, with SpaceX flying in as many stars as possible to push through to the orbital launch. Allegedly Musk has established a deadline for both vehicles to be ready for stacking by Aug 5.

Have you seen Marcus House's channel on You Tube, he does a weekly update on space but most Saturday uploads concentrate on the extremely rapid progress at the site?

I have not, but I appreciate the recommendation, I’ll check it out!

I was reading that some of the content creators and update folks have been facing problems with their info. It’s all still good, but is already Old news by the time they manage to film/edit/upload.

To really drive home that point about speed-

In the last 24 hours, the booster has been stacked, the final grid fins were installed, and 29 raptor engines have been installed.

I try to remain fairly neutral as I’m more a fan of space travel/vehicles than any particular company. But installing 29 engines in under a day is absolutely insane.

I don’t have a great source, but allegedly it took NASA longer to hoist the SLS core from horizontal to vertical, to proceed with stacking.

FGITD wrote:

but allegedly it took NASA longer to hoist the SLS core from horizontal to vertical, to proceed with stacking.

It's a matter coming down the learning curve and having the capacity for mass production.

bt

bikerthai wrote:

FGITD wrote:

but allegedly it took NASA longer to hoist the SLS core from horizontal to vertical, to proceed with stacking.

It's a matter coming down the learning curve and having the capacity for mass production.

bt

Exactly. Musk is quoted as saying something akin to the engineering is easy, manufacturing is hard. He wants to do for rockets what Ford did for cars, hence the continuous drive for efficiency. If you are only building one rocket a year for 4 years, you get 4 chances to learn how to make it better, and the incentive is low to reduce costs. You want to ensure it's 100% perfect as you only have 4 chances to get it right.

If I want to go from 4 rockets a year over 4 years to a rocket a week, not only does my efficiency have to increase but I have more opportunities to provide feedback in to the manufacturing cycle. Each item doesn't have to be perfect as I'm not making > 200 rockets and I can tolerate a few failures along the way.

Wasn't that brought up with Boeing recently - they could easily design a next airplane but their barrier is all on the manufacturing side. How to do it at scale, cheaply.

Of course, it’s two wildly different approaches. Just a fun comparison.

But it does hit a bit closer to home when one remembers that SLS was originally created on the basis of reusing known parts/methods. It’s not quite a ready-built rocket, but many of the obstacles being faced aren’t exactly day 0 problems. In the time NASA has taken to get almost ready to start stacking their rocket, SpaceX scouted locations, bought land, built a facility and now has built the rocket.

At any rate, we should enjoy this modern space age for what it is. it’s fascinating being able to watch the different approaches and ideas being put out there. I can’t wait for the days when we hopefully have SLS, Starship and New Glenn going up.

FGITD wrote:

Of course, it’s two wildly different approaches. Just a fun comparison.

Sometimes it takes someone to look at it from a different angle.

It's like bicycle makers going from steel, to aluminum, to titanium, to composite then back to steel.

If you can do it cheaply with steel and new welding tech, then why not?

bt

If you’ve got an hour, part 1 of Everyday Astronauts tour of Starbase with Musk is worth a listen….

https://youtu.be/t705r8ICkRw

If you lack the time….. “Don’t optimize stupid requirements”

zanl188 wrote:

If you’ve got an hour, part 1 of Everyday Astronauts tour of Starbase with Musk is worth a listen….

https://youtu.be/t705r8ICkRw

If you lack the time….. “Don’t optimize stupid requirements”

Great video. Elon Musk looks and acts like a genuine nerd.

If you lack the time….. “Don’t optimize stupid requirements”

It's a shame he doesn't apply that thinking to Tesla. The wonders of having a decent leadership to tell him when he's being stupid.

Anyways, Superheavy and Starship are going to be nuts to watch launch. Even the full duration static fire is going to be insane. Most engines on a single stage since the soviet N1. O_O

There are two Musk's.
One great engineer and the other is a C-list celebrity.

I can't wait to see full stack BFR's first flight.

I’d say Musk isn’t even necessarily a great engineer, maybe more apt to call him a visionary with the means of making his ideas happen. Very mixed feelings on him though, I like the work his companies do, but really can’t sit well with the conditions under which they do them. Particularly Tesla…it’s a car factory, it doesn’t need to be run as a sweatshop.

That said, starship sn20 rolled out today. Supposedly will be mounted on the booster for fit checks and presentation, then taken back down to continue work.

Impressive sight of these 29 raptors...

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1423041198764265473

FGITD wrote:

I’d say Musk isn’t even necessarily a great engineer, maybe more apt to call him a visionary with the means of making his ideas happen. Very mixed feelings on him though, I like the work his companies do, but really can’t sit well with the conditions under which they do them. Particularly Tesla…it’s a car factory, it doesn’t need to be run as a sweatshop.

That said, starship sn20 rolled out today. Supposedly will be mounted on the booster for fit checks and presentation, then taken back down to continue work.

When I saw the state of Ship 20 rolling out of the assembly building and the speed at which they installed 29 engines on booster 4, I had a distinct impression that things are being very rushed over at SpaceX as well... Talking of sweatshops, I'd say Boca Chica is starting to feel like one too.

Musk has definitely cranked the pressure up some more down in Texas. He certainly knows how to use the whip, but I just don't know if he knows how much he can push it before things start falling apart.

High profile companies like SpaceX are known for burning through people. There is always someone else ready to fill the slot freed up.

Down here in NZ I saw an ad for a role at RocketLab that I'd have been a good fit for. I passed on it precisely because of the reputation such companies have.

Starship S20 Was briefly stacked on top of booster 4 this morning for a fit test. I believe that made it the largest rocket ever made. Static firing of both will be probably next week and a launch before labor day.

In case nobody has mentioned that. The Starship will officially be the single solution for the first lunar landing mission under NASA’s Artemis program to return to the Moon. This comes after the US GAO backed the decision to use Starship as the lander, stating it didn’t break any laws with the selection. The space agency first announced its decision to land astronauts on the Moon with SpaceX in April, but legal protests from the Blue Origin-led National Team and Dynetics halted progress for the contract.

flyingturtle wrote:

Impressive sight of these 29 raptors...

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1423041198764265473

Nice, very nice!

Are these the 380,000 lbf or higher thrust ones?

memphiX wrote:

flyingturtle wrote:

Impressive sight of these 29 raptors...

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1423041198764265473

Nice, very nice!

Are these the 380,000 lbf or higher thrust ones?

I'm pretty sure these ones are at least 475,000 lbf.

Part 2 of Everyday Astronauts interview with Musk.

https://youtu.be/SA8ZBJWo73E

zanl188 wrote:

Part 2 of Everyday Astronauts interview with Musk.

https://youtu.be/SA8ZBJWo73E

He's a nerd. A total nerd. I believe Elon can walk up to any SpaceX employee, and knows what the employee is doing, and why he's doing it.

Managerial, financial, marketing and PR stuff can always be outsourced to other experts.

He really is the coolest billionaire, shoving it up the backsides of 800 lb. gorillas in three separate industries now. But you can tell Space X is what will drive his passion until he's gone.

zanl188 wrote:

Part 2 of Everyday Astronauts interview with Musk.

https://youtu.be/SA8ZBJWo73E

Wow, brilliant, thank you so much for sharing. Just watched part 1 and 2 in one go, so informative!

Zeppi wrote:

zanl188 wrote:

Part 2 of Everyday Astronauts interview with Musk.

https://youtu.be/SA8ZBJWo73E

Wow, brilliant, thank you so much for sharing. Just watched part 1 and 2 in one go, so informative!

Part 3 is also out by now. It mainly shows how Elon is interacting with SpaceX employees. There seems to be a lot of trust between Elon and his engineers.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Zlnbs-NBUI

Cheers, I know. I just ran out of time to watch part 3 too. Tonight

Brilliant videos. What worries me, Elon comes accross as being extremely tired.

76er wrote:

Brilliant videos. What worries me, Elon comes across as being extremely tired.

I talked with him till 1AM once. Remembering to sleep isn't one of his strong points when he has something to do or say.