Afternoon all,

I have been interested in finding out more about the UK MoD plan for the RAF's two BAe 146-100 CC.2 (Stateman) that are operated by No. 32 out of RAF Northolt. Alongside their core Royal duties, they serve as an air transport for high ranking UK Gov ministers (incl. PM, Chancellor, and ForSec) around the UK and Europe. For reference these are:

MSN: E1021; British Aerospace 146-100; Registration: ZE700; Delivered: Jul 1998; Configuation: C19
MSN: E1029; British Aerospace 146-100; Registration: ZE701; Delivered: Apr 1999; Configuation: C19

(Credit: Andrew Parsons)

In recent years, the larger Airbus A330-200MRTT called "Vespina" has been reserved by the RAF for Royal/Ministerial transportation duties on top of its original tanker role. For reference the aircraft is:

MSN: 1363; Airbus A330-200MRTT; Registration: ZZ336 Vespina; Delivered: Sep 2015; Configuation: C58Y100

I have seen rumours recently that the UK gov is expected to retire the ZE700/ZE701, which is not unexpected as they are over 30 years old. With the forthcoming Integrated Review of the UK's global foreign relations and defence posture, it would do well to acknowledge the capability of an aircraft that can get in and out of smaller airfields in Europe/UK, while still effectively executing the Royal/Ministerial mission, when the bigger ZZ336 can be considerable overkill for PM day trip up north. This is why the the pair of RAF 146s are so valuable.

My question is what replacement can possibly be considered for missions when the ZZ336 is simply too much plane?

Thanks, and stay safe
Dublinspotter.

B-737BBJ. There are some used models available for sale. Or the RAF could order a new build from Boeing. Since the RAF is ordering the P-8 MRA1, they could order an extra one as a B-737BBJ-2.
The RAF has 5 E-7 AEW1 on order. Two will be rebuilt used aircraft, the remaining 3 will be new builds from Boeing.
Since the UK does not really need the long range of a BBJ, or other business jet, a shorter range model could be built.
If the RAF wanted to have an EU built airplane, they could opt for a short ranged A-319CJ or A-320CJ. But these would be unique odd ball aircraft for the RAF being the only A-32X models in the RAF. That is why the B-737BBJ/BBJ-2 makes more sense for the RAF because they are already buying the P-8A MRA1 (5 delivered, 4 more on order) and 5 E-7 Wedgetail AEW1.

None of the above, paint the A330 back into proper RAF operational colours, if a replacement for the 146's IS even needed, well do without, book a ticket.
The only other option might be this;
https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... ays/roxlw0

Though not necessarily in RAF operation.

GDB wrote:

None of the above, paint the A330 back into proper RAF operational colours, if a replacement for the 146's IS even needed, well do without, book a ticket.
The only other option might be this;
https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... ays/roxlw0

Though not necessarily in RAF operation.

Good replacement, agreed. Dirt cheap to buy - no airlines are interested in A318. Could get a UK airline with an A32X fleet to buy and maintain it and charge the UK government for its use.

A Bombardier Challenger 650?

Aren't the sentinels supposed to be retired / scrapped? Maybe they can be converted back to VIP cabin?

art wrote:

Good replacement, agreed. Dirt cheap to buy - no airlines are interested in A318.

Isn't Titan getting this second frame? Most economical and practical solution. Just refurbish the interior and zero-time the engines.

However, should the younger Royals snub the clunker and they're feeling flush, perhaps they'd pony up the sterlings for this.....


https://www.corporatejetinvestor.com/wp ... 68x464.jpg


Good range, reasonable size and bespoke appointments!

How about a Gulfstream? Like some G700 with RR engines.

What they should have done is inherit those A318 long range aircraft from BA second hand. Even LCY capable.

Devilfish wrote:

art wrote:

Good replacement, agreed. Dirt cheap to buy - no airlines are interested in A318.

Isn't Titan getting this second frame? Most economical and practical solution. Just refurbish the interior and zero-time the engines.

However, should the younger Royals snub the clunker and they're feeling flush, perhaps they'd pony up the sterlings for this.....


https://www.corporatejetinvestor.com/wp ... 68x464.jpg


Good range, reasonable size and bespoke appointments!

The second BA A318 went to Twente for parting out.

https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... ays/roxlw0

ThePointblank wrote:

A Bombardier Challenger 650?

Noshow wrote:

How about a Gulfstream? Like some G700 with RR engines.

Since we're already tooting the horns for the Commonwealth, why stop there...might as well go all the way up to the Global 7500... ...



https://www.flightglobal.com/flight-int ... 48.article

bennett123 wrote:

The second BA A318 went to Twente for parting out.

A pity. Anyway, I believe the TwoTwenty will be LCY certified also? If the latter was still too big and expensive, how about this one that just had its first flight?... ...



https://www.flightglobal.com/business-a ... 30.article


However, not sure how BREXIT and COVID would play into all of this!

Apparently, Airbus is upping its VIP jet game, in the face of challenges in the airline sector.....

https://www.flightglobal.com/airframers ... 23.article

If a good deal still couldn't be had and the current Chancellor of the Exchequer was in turn not amenable to the idea, they might consider post #5 above...and check out whether Ottawa is unloading its Challenger 650.....

On CivAV forum, thread started about the replacement.
Looks like UK Gov have already started on the Statesman's replacement, an A321NEO(LR) (G-XATW).
https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/viewph ... icid=10678

Stay safe
Dublinspotter.

Dublinspotter wrote:

Looks like UK Gov have already started on the Statesman's replacement, an A321NEO(LR) (G-XATW).

An inspired and very wise choice! Now, can anyone post images of the interior configuration please

Curious this didn't do a flypast during yesterday's ceremony?.....


Anyway, a good thing it came while HM is still around.

Devilfish wrote:

Curious this didn't do a flypast during yesterday's ceremony?.....

Anyway, a good thing it came while HM is still around.

I must say, the livery is striking and has grown on me a lot, same goes for the MRTT. Personally would prefer this to be joined by a second aircraft (G-GBNI perhaps??) and to be operated by RAF like the MRTT is... but with the budget trends the UK is implementing over the coming years it makes more of an ideational aspiration, than a concrete proposal.

Anyway, I believe it has only been used once (to Indonesia, via Oman) or twice (Paris/Brussels?) by the ForMin, and once by PM (Teeside). Not yet by Royals.
And regaridng a cabin, as this was initially earmarked for Four Seasons, we can assume it looked/s similar to this: https://simpleflying.com/bewildering-in ... -a-ticket/

Stay safe
Dublinspotter.

Dublinspotter wrote:

I must say, the livery is striking and has grown on me a lot, same goes for the MRTT.

I steel feel the short, blue swoosh to be an overkill.

Dublinspotter wrote:

Anyway, I believe it has only been used once (to Indonesia, via Oman) or twice (Paris/Brussels?) by the ForMin, and once by PM (Teeside). Not yet by Royals.
And regaridng a cabin, as this was initially earmarked for Four Seasons, we can assume it looked/s similar to this: https://simpleflying.com/bewildering-in ... -a-ticket/

Very nice...though I'm assuming the remarks about a perceived omission to be remedied in due course by a built-in, fully private stateroom or at least a quick-change kit by replacing some seats -- when the next in line gets the crown.

Quote:
"While the Optimares designed seats look lovely and spacious, their wide comfort has eaten into the central aisle space. That could make for an awkward sideways shuffle for passengers to get to the lavs. [...] While they’ve certainly mastered the all-business nature of this A321, there’s not that much to love about it other than the comfortable seats."


They could then visit HLE first, instead of Easter Island on Four Seasons' brochure. If the runway there could accommodate a 752, then a lightly loaded A321LR should be no problem.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=STN-HLE-IPC&DU=nm

Dublinspotter wrote:

Personally would prefer this to be joined by a second aircraft (G-GBNI perhaps??) and to be operated by RAF like the MRTT is... but with the budget trends the UK is implementing over the coming years it makes more of an ideational aspiration, than a concrete proposal.

I think they already found a very suitable replacement (2 in fact) which wouldn't rile the Exchequer......

https://www.flightglobal.com/defence/da ... 19.article


https://images.dassault-aviation.com/w_ ... 92_S-1.jpg

Dublinspotter wrote:

Anyway, I believe it has only been used once (to Indonesia, via Oman) or twice (Paris/Brussels?) by the ForMin, and once by PM (Teeside). Not yet by Royals.

Most recent trip was last month to ADL in the far flung reaches of the Commonwealth, with the U.K. Defence and Foreign ministers aboard.....

Devilfish wrote:

Dublinspotter wrote:

Personally would prefer this to be joined by a second aircraft (G-GBNI perhaps??) and to be operated by RAF like the MRTT is... but with the budget trends the UK is implementing over the coming years it makes more of an ideational aspiration, than a concrete proposal.

I think they already found a very suitable replacement (2 in fact) which wouldn't rile the Exchequer......

https://www.flightglobal.com/defence/da ... 19.article


https://images.dassault-aviation.com/w_ ... 92_S-1.jpg

Dublinspotter wrote:

Anyway, I believe it has only been used once (to Indonesia, via Oman) or twice (Paris/Brussels?) by the ForMin, and once by PM (Teeside). Not yet by Royals.

Most recent trip was last month to ADL in the far flung reaches of the Commonwealth, with the U.K. Defence and Foreign ministers aboard.....

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