I think the main issue with Bezos is that a good portion of his employees work in absolutely terrible conditions with terrible pay and benefits, and extremely high turnover as a result. There are all the stories like working in a position that’s a 10 minute walk from the bathroom, and only given 15 minute breaks, and so on.
I can’t fault him for not wanting to spend his own money solving the world’s problems, but at least take care of the people who work for you.
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Re: Jeff Bezos and brother to fly on first Blue Origin flight
FGITD wrote:There are all the stories like working in a position that’s a 10 minute walk from the bathroom, and only given 15 minute breaks, and so on.
I heard a story by a writer spending a stint at the Amazon factory as well. And yes seems like the working condition seemed harsh. But barely mentioned was that there are people within that warehouse who can make the quota, excel at it, and might even like the work.
Not everyone are are slated for every job. I bet those toiling on the farm field or slaughter house assembly line would love to get a shot at the Amazon warehouse gig.
I for one do appreciate the pickers as their effort got me through the pandemic. Both the Amazon pickers and the farm pickers. And hopefully my Prime membership fee do ultimately end up in their pocket, however small the share.
bt
Re: Jeff Bezos and brother to fly on first Blue Origin flight
FGITD wrote:I think the main issue with Bezos is that a good portion of his employees work in absolutely terrible conditions with terrible pay and benefits, and extremely high turnover as a result. There are all the stories like working in a position that’s a 10 minute walk from the bathroom, and only given 15 minute breaks, and so on.
I can’t fault him for not wanting to spend his own money solving the world’s problems, but at least take care of the people who work for you.
I read saw somewhere that the conditions are designed that way to they can keep labor costs low via high turnover.
Re: Jeff Bezos and brother to fly on first Blue Origin flight
FGITD wrote:I think the main issue with Bezos is that a good portion of his employees work in absolutely terrible conditions with terrible pay and benefits, and extremely high turnover as a result. There are all the stories like working in a position that’s a 10 minute walk from the bathroom, and only given 15 minute breaks, and so on.
I can’t fault him for not wanting to spend his own money solving the world’s problems, but at least take care of the people who work for you.
I read saw somewhere that the conditions are designed that way to they can keep labor costs low via high turnover.
Re: Jeff Bezos and brother to fly on first Blue Origin flight
TWA772LR wrote:FGITD wrote:I think the main issue with Bezos is that a good portion of his employees work in absolutely terrible conditions with terrible pay and benefits, and extremely high turnover as a result. There are all the stories like working in a position that’s a 10 minute walk from the bathroom, and only given 15 minute breaks, and so on.
I can’t fault him for not wanting to spend his own money solving the world’s problems, but at least take care of the people who work for you.
I read saw somewhere that the conditions are designed that way to they can keep labor costs low via high turnover.
Make no mistake, that is precisely their intent. There are more than 15K HR staff at Amazon...they have something like 600 people devoted just to online on-boarding. It's a massive operation and at this point has little to do with Bezos.
Re: Jeff Bezos and brother to fly on first Blue Origin flight
I thought this is a forum about space flight.
What I see is a discussion about social and labour conditions at Amazon.
This is not aviation or space flight related.
In addition: I'm quite sure, that most of the posters here have bought something from Amazon in the past.
What I see is a discussion about social and labour conditions at Amazon.
This is not aviation or space flight related.
In addition: I'm quite sure, that most of the posters here have bought something from Amazon in the past.
Re: Jeff Bezos and brother to fly on first Blue Origin flight
Heinkel wrote:What I see is a discussion about social and labour conditions at Amazon.
This is not aviation or space flight related.
It is if Bezos directly mentioned that the workers and subscribers were the one bankrolling the flight during the post flight presser.
But I agree, this thread should celebrate the advancement and leave the whining to some other social justice platform.
bt
Re: Jeff Bezos and brother to fly on first Blue Origin flight
...or starting a discussion on how the private sector has removed the exclusivity of the military industrial complex to space, even if for a minute or two. The rest of the citizens of the world who do not have large militaries to fly jets can now dream about one day seeing their planet from high above even if it means their live savings, how cool is that.
Re: Jeff Bezos and brother to fly on first Blue Origin flight
FGITD wrote:GDB wrote:
This however, for me is Wally Funk's day, if it is the case that Bezos is stepping back from Amazon to devote more time to Blue Origin, this flight will likely make him even more focused.
Not to give Bezos much credit, but the Wally Funk point and the “crew” selection by BO was definitely a much better PR move then Virgin. I’m glad she finally got her opportunity to fly. Even the rest of them were good choices. If you founded your own company to go to space, who wouldn’t want to bring their own sibling along to share that moment? The Dutch kid…well, his family paid so he got to go, but at least his age makes him a little more noteworthy.
I wonder if Musk is getting jealous and wants to take a ride into orbit…
I heard Musk had a Virgin Galactic ticket ?
I think Branson was in a different position, on the one hand his spacecraft had already had successful manned space flights, on the other hand it also had a deadly crash, so going with employees made sense.
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- bearnard123
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Re: Jeff Bezos and brother to fly on first Blue Origin flight
Aesma wrote:FGITD wrote:GDB wrote:
This however, for me is Wally Funk's day, if it is the case that Bezos is stepping back from Amazon to devote more time to Blue Origin, this flight will likely make him even more focused.
Not to give Bezos much credit, but the Wally Funk point and the “crew” selection by BO was definitely a much better PR move then Virgin. I’m glad she finally got her opportunity to fly. Even the rest of them were good choices. If you founded your own company to go to space, who wouldn’t want to bring their own sibling along to share that moment? The Dutch kid…well, his family paid so he got to go, but at least his age makes him a little more noteworthy.
I wonder if Musk is getting jealous and wants to take a ride into orbit…
I heard Musk had a Virgin Galactic ticket ?
I think Branson was in a different position, on the one hand, his spacecraft had already had successful manned space flights, on the other hand it also had a deadly crash, so going with employees made sense.
Yeah, as far as I know, Musk is going to have his space flight soon after Jeff Bezos makes his and becomes the first space tourist who makes complete space flight.
Re: Jeff Bezos and brother to fly on first Blue Origin flight
I suspect Virgin is probably set up to pamper their customers better. And Musk does like his butt kissed.
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- bearnard123
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Re: Jeff Bezos and brother to fly on first Blue Origin flight
bikerthai wrote:I suspect Virgin is probably set up to pamper their customers better. And Musk does like his butt kissed.
bt
I guess he just wants to go to space and experience complete space flight. I don`t judge him for that and I do not suspect anything from this Musk's attempt to go to space.
Re: Jeff Bezos and brother to fly on first Blue Origin flight
There is a difference between the two flights. One takes longer to go to altitude prior the the final boost. It does give you more time to comptemplate the universe.
The other us an adrenaline rush from the beginning.
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The other us an adrenaline rush from the beginning.
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- flyingturtle
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Re: Jeff Bezos and brother to fly on first Blue Origin flight
Mr. Bezos not getting the Commercial Astronaut Wings - and Branson, too:
Understandably the FAA might have very different "astronaut" definitions than the USAF or the NASA.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57950149
But altitude aside, the agency says would-be astronauts must have also "demonstrated activities during flight that were essential to public safety, or contributed to human space flight safety".
What exactly counts as such is determined by FAA officials.
In a statement, the FAA said that these changes brought the wings scheme more in line with its role to protect public safety during commercial space flights.
Understandably the FAA might have very different "astronaut" definitions than the USAF or the NASA.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57950149
Re: Jeff Bezos and brother to fly on first Blue Origin flight
They should work as flight attendant and serve some drinks. We've learnt, that FAs are there for flight safety. So a FA job will qualify for the astronaut wings.
Re: Jeff Bezos and brother to fly on first Blue Origin flight
I didn't realise how small Blue Origins New Shepard rocket is. A single turbofan on the 777 puts out more thrust than this cute little rocket. Hitler's V-2 rocket put out more thrust and flew much faster lol:
By comparison the SpaceX rocket first stage has more than 150 times as much thrust. Even the second stage Starship has 30 times as much thrust.
Blue origin is a joke of a company. Stunts like this are meant to bring in new investment to continue the scam for a few more years before everyone loses their money.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small-l ... ch_vehicle
Dozens of private companies and even countries like Iran have made rockets with vastly more power. The media has made such a big deal out of this company.
By comparison the SpaceX rocket first stage has more than 150 times as much thrust. Even the second stage Starship has 30 times as much thrust.
Blue origin is a joke of a company. Stunts like this are meant to bring in new investment to continue the scam for a few more years before everyone loses their money.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small-l ... ch_vehicle
Dozens of private companies and even countries like Iran have made rockets with vastly more power. The media has made such a big deal out of this company.
Re: Jeff Bezos and brother to fly on first Blue Origin flight
RJMAZ wrote:Blue origin is a joke of a company.
So was Amazon when they started out.
Criticizing a company without knowing it's mission statement, it's business plan, or the people who work there make make a joke out of your statement.
Blue Origin engineering team pulled a lot from the local aerospace giant neighbor, Boeing. Sure you can point to the mis-step that Boeing made recently, but mow many of those issues came from management and how many came from the technical team?
You can criticize Amazon for its lobying and pay practice, but how can you doubt their business plan.
You don't start out a space race by shooting for the moon. You start by acquiring experience one small step at a time, all the way from how to design a rocket to seting up an infrastructure for a complete space system.
bt
Re: Jeff Bezos and brother to fly on first Blue Origin flight
bikerthai wrote:RJMAZ wrote:Blue origin is a joke of a company.
So was Amazon when they started out.
Criticizing a company without knowing it's mission statement, it's business plan, or the people who work there make make a joke out of your statement.
Blue Origin engineering team pulled a lot from the local aerospace giant neighbor, Boeing. Sure you can point to the mis-step that Boeing made recently, but mow many of those issues came from management and how many came from the technical team?
You can criticize Amazon for its lobying and pay practice, but how can you doubt their business plan.
You don't start out a space race by shooting for the moon. You start by acquiring experience one small step at a time, all the way from how to design a rocket to seting up an infrastructure for a complete space system.
bt
Absolutely, what a misguided statement.
Measuring the quality of a company by only the power of their rocket. Makes sense. Disregard that it also landed itself, that it’s not designed for orbital flight, or that by their own metric it worked flawlessly.
Very easy to forget that a company like SpaceX has been working to get to this point for 20 years, and their first 3 launches all failed. But the rockets were powerful so I guess that’s all that matters, regardless of then blowing up.
I’m not a big fan of the way BO operates, but that’s mostly down to a bit of selfish curiosity that they don’t reveal anything, and move so slowly. But in terms of operating a company, they seem to be doing just fine.
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- bearnard123
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Re: Jeff Bezos and brother to fly on first Blue Origin flight
The information has been confirmed that Blue Origin has started working on a project to develop a fully reusable upper stage for New Glenn, which may potentially use stainless steel propellant tanks. ..." https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/07 ... -projects/ Interesting fact that the new project by Blue Origin is called ``Jarvis``
Re: Jeff Bezos and brother to fly on first Blue Origin flight
bikerthai wrote:RJMAZ wrote:Blue origin is a joke of a company.
So was Amazon when they started out.
Criticizing a company without knowing it's mission statement, it's business plan, or the people who work there make make a joke out of your statement.
Blue Origin engineering team pulled a lot from the local aerospace giant neighbor, Boeing. Sure you can point to the mis-step that Boeing made recently, but mow many of those issues came from management and how many came from the technical team?
You can criticize Amazon for its lobying and pay practice, but how can you doubt their business plan.
You don't start out a space race by shooting for the moon. You start by acquiring experience one small step at a time, all the way from how to design a rocket to seting up an infrastructure for a complete space system.
bt
You also don't don't start a space race by taking 21 years to build a big model rocket and an engine that you can't seem to get just right.
No amount of money or skill can make up for the environment that exists in that company.
Re: Jeff Bezos and brother to fly on first Blue Origin flight
Nomadd wrote:No amount of money or skill can make up for the environment that exists in that company.
Not sure that the environment at Blue Origin would be the same as it would be at Amazon.
The two company have different mission statements, such as Space X and Tesla have different mission statements.
bt
Re: Jeff Bezos and brother to fly on first Blue Origin flight
bikerthai wrote:Nomadd wrote:No amount of money or skill can make up for the environment that exists in that company.
Not sure that the environment at Blue Origin would be the same as it would be at Amazon.
The two company have different mission statements, such as Space X and Tesla have different mission statements.
bt
I have no interest in Amazon. I was referring to BO.
Re: Jeff Bezos and brother to fly on first Blue Origin flight
Didn't know BO have been around long. Didn't hear much about them until a few years back when there was a call for experienced aerospace engineers.
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- bearnard123
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Re: Jeff Bezos and brother to fly on first Blue Origin flight
Some interesting facts about Blue Origin. The Blue Origin has started working on a project to develop a fully reusable upper stage for New Glenn, which may potentially use stainless steel propellant tanks. ..." https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/07 ... -projects/ Interesting fact that the new project by Blue Origin is called ``Jarvis``
Re: Jeff Bezos and brother to fly on first Blue Origin flight
Whoever thinks of the names at Blue Origin needs replacing. One side has “Starship” and the order has…Jarvis.
Some interesting insight though. Apparently some of BO’s advisers to Bezos claimed a fully reusable booster/vehicle wasn’t feasible and the odds they’d ever land one were insurmountable.
…took them what, 5 tries?
If true, it’s a little bit telling of what the mentalities are over there
Some interesting insight though. Apparently some of BO’s advisers to Bezos claimed a fully reusable booster/vehicle wasn’t feasible and the odds they’d ever land one were insurmountable.
…took them what, 5 tries?
If true, it’s a little bit telling of what the mentalities are over there
Re: Jeff Bezos and brother to fly on first Blue Origin flight
FGITD wrote:Whoever thinks of the names at Blue Origin needs
Blue Origin is more organic than Space-X.
A hundred years from now, our dependent will look back at us from some far away colony, Blue Origin will evoke more spiritual meaning even if Space X becomes dominant.
FGITD wrote:Apparently some of BO’s advisers to Bezos claimed a fully reusable booster/vehicle wasn’t feasible and the odds they’d ever land one were insurmountable.
And good for him to have those types of advisors among the yes men. You need to have contrairian views to avoid group think. The trick is debate and analyze all the possibilities, and have constructive arguments to address all the reasons why those advisors said it can't be done.
bt
Re: Jeff Bezos and brother to fly on first Blue Origin flight
bikerthai wrote:FGITD wrote:Whoever thinks of the names at Blue Origin needs
Blue Origin is more organic than Space-X.
A hundred years from now, our dependent will look back at us from some far away colony, Blue Origin will evoke more spiritual meaning even if Space X becomes dominant.FGITD wrote:Apparently some of BO’s advisers to Bezos claimed a fully reusable booster/vehicle wasn’t feasible and the odds they’d ever land one were insurmountable.
And good for him to have those types of advisors among the yes men. You need to have contrairian views to avoid group think. The trick is debate and analyze all the possibilities, and have constructive arguments to address all the reasons why those advisors said it can't be done.
bt
In the end if humans become a true space faring species, no one is going to care about the spiritual Origin of the name of the company that may or may not have gotten them there. No one buys a Ford because it evokes fond memories of Detroit.
In regards to your second point, it’s good to have those people, but BO seems to lean too heavily on them. In the grand scheme of space travel, the Starship hops have been more beneficial to future human space flight than anything BO has done.
But according to them, it’s “virtually impossible” so why bother? Let’s launch suborbital another 30 or 40 times. That’s the future of manned flight!
Re: Jeff Bezos and brother to fly on first Blue Origin flight
FGITD wrote:a true space faring species, no one is going to care about the spiritual Origin of the name of the company that may or may not have gotten them there.
The comment was relating to the notion that the person who thought up the name Blue Origin should be fired. I say Blue Origin - evolving the image of mother earth has more meaning than Space X. So don't fire that person.
FGITD wrote:but BO seems to lean too heavily on them.
BO set up a separate team to work on a reusable second stage, and firewalled them from the rest of the team, seamed to contradict your statement.
bt
Re: Jeff Bezos and brother to fly on first Blue Origin flight
Oh by the way, the latest synopsis on a tell all book about the workings at Tesla doesn't paint Musk as any better. 
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- chimborazo
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Re: Jeff Bezos and brother to fly on first Blue Origin flight
bikerthai wrote:RJMAZ wrote:Blue origin is a joke of a company.
So was Amazon when they started out.
Criticizing a company without knowing it's mission statement, it's business plan, or the people who work there make make a joke out of your statement.
Blue Origin engineering team pulled a lot from the local aerospace giant neighbor, Boeing. Sure you can point to the mis-step that Boeing made recently, but mow many of those issues came from management and how many came from the technical team?
You can criticize Amazon for its lobying and pay practice, but how can you doubt their business plan.
You don't start out a space race by shooting for the moon. You start by acquiring experience one small step at a time, all the way from how to design a rocket to seting up an infrastructure for a complete space system.
bt
Well… reference your first sentence in last statement… that’s exactly what you do. “We choose to go to the moon and do these other things…”
Okay, A race was already on at that point (THE space race was already won by the Soviets). The experience to get to the moon was then acquired step by step.
Although it’s impressive what BO has achieved, if those folks get their astronaut wings then we should all get pilot wings by travelling on a commercial flight. They were pure passengers.
I suspect, in time, they will get orbital - with Bezos on it - then he will be an astronaut (assuming he has some involvement in the operation of the flight).
Re: Jeff Bezos and brother to fly on first Blue Origin flight
chimborazo wrote:if those folks get their astronaut wings then we should all get pilot wings by travelling on a commercial flight. They were pure passengers.
The powers that be has already stated that they will not be called astronauts or get the official wings.
Some us do get wings by traveling on commercial flights, usually children.
chimborazo wrote:Okay, A race was already on at that point (THE space race was already won by the Soviets). The experience to get to the moon was then acquired step by step.
And Virgin beat Blue Origin and Space X is way ahead of them both. My point is if you fall behind, or lose one race, you don't quit. If you are true to your mission statement, have a sound plan, and are sufficiently funded, you continue. . . "to the moon and other things".
bt
Re: Jeff Bezos and brother to fly on first Blue Origin flight
chimborazo wrote:then he will be an astronaut (assuming he has some involvement in the operation of the flight).
Curious. Do mission specialists get astronaut "wings"? Do they cross train to be a vehicle pilot?
I mean the USAF give "wings" to drone pilots. Will space craft pilots be called astronauts if they never leave the earth? I guess the wings will have less meaning over time. But right now, the experience has more meaning than a label or a trinket.
bt
Re: Jeff Bezos and brother to fly on first Blue Origin flight
bikerthai wrote:chimborazo wrote:then he will be an astronaut (assuming he has some involvement in the operation of the flight).
Curious. Do mission specialists get astronaut "wings"? Do they cross train to be a vehicle pilot?
I mean the USAF give "wings" to drone pilots. Will space craft pilots be called astronauts if they never leave the earth? I guess the wings will have less meaning over time. But right now, the experience has more meaning than a label or a trinket.
bt
Mission specialists always have, as they are trained members of the crew.
These days the FAA has added that to get their astronaut wings, you have to go 50 miles up, and demonstrate activities during the flight that contributed to public safety or human space flight safety.
Not that I disagree with the criteria, but it very much seems like a nice way to leave it up to interpretation.
Hard to argue though. Did you go up to conduct some work/fly the craft, or did you just go to look out the windows?
I like the simple breakdown I heard elsewhere:
If you paid for your seat, you’re a space tourist. If you got paid to be in your seat, you’re an astronaut.
Re: Jeff Bezos and brother to fly on first Blue Origin flight
An uncrewed Blue Origin capsule had an anomaly early in the launch, it recovered OK;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v09RCNChe-w
(Not heard anything from Branson's one in over a year, wonder if deposits are being paid back)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v09RCNChe-w
(Not heard anything from Branson's one in over a year, wonder if deposits are being paid back)
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