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snasteve
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C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:08 am

 
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Dutchy
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:40 am

wow. But why aren't they taking them to Pakistan. Much closer than the Middle East. Might be less save, but given the circomstances.
 
petertenthije
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:52 am

Dutchy wrote:
wow. But why aren't they taking them to Pakistan.
They are fleeing from the Taliban. Dropping them off in Pakistan, the Taliban's sugar-daddy, might not be the wisest course of action.
 
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SAS A340
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:14 pm

People reported falling from the sky while departing . Media report people was hanging outside the C-17 on takeoff. Oh my god.
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Mon Aug 16, 2021 2:32 pm

flyingturtle wrote:
SAS A340 wrote:
People reported falling from the sky while departing . Media report people was hanging outside the C-17 on takeoff. Oh my god.


Indeed. Oh my God.

C-17 rolling, with people on the landing gear fairing: https://twitter.com/TOLOnews/status/1427204278695997442

Blurry video of two people falling from a flying C-17: https://twitter.com/AsvakaNews/status/1 ... 0054515730
 
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SAS A340
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Mon Aug 16, 2021 3:10 pm

flyingturtle wrote:
flyingturtle wrote:
SAS A340 wrote:
People reported falling from the sky while departing . Media report people was hanging outside the C-17 on takeoff. Oh my god.


Indeed. Oh my God.

C-17 rolling, with people on the landing gear fairing: https://twitter.com/TOLOnews/status/1427204278695997442

Blurry video of two people falling from a flying C-17: https://twitter.com/AsvakaNews/status/1 ... 0054515730

Never seen anything like it before... :pray:
 
889091
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:16 pm

Wouldn't they have been able to fit more in a Galaxy? Why didn't they send a C5 instead? I assume a Galaxy can also perform a tactical descent?
 
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LyleLanley
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:56 pm

^^ Most likely a combination of availability, tactical capes, and MOG issues. Especially with the MRT the C-5 would probably need. :lol:

On the real, as much as aircrew joke about C-17s landing at the wrong airport (repeatedly) or forgetting their landing gear, this crew just showed what it’s all about and how capable they (and their aircraft) truly are. Pretty daring feat of airmanship and reminds me of the World Airways 727 out of Da Nang… Anyone wanna take bets on whether the crew was Q-3’d on landing?
 
777
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Mon Aug 16, 2021 7:41 pm

SAS A340 wrote:
People reported falling from the sky while departing . Media report people was hanging outside the C-17 on takeoff. Oh my god.

Honestly, how is this possible? How can you take off without performing a visual check, knowing that the aircraft was literally surrounded by people during the taxi?
 
Woodreau
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Mon Aug 16, 2021 7:51 pm

When I saw the tweet of over 800 in the C-17 I was also thinking about the 727 out of Da Nang that Boeing engineers figured the 727 took off 20,000lbs overweight carrying 300+ people in the passenger cabin, cargo bin and landing gear wells. People fell out of the landing well when the pilots attempted to retract the landing gear except the landing gear was unable to retract fully because the landing gear ended up crushing the people who hadn’t fallen out of the well and were still left in the landing gear well. So the crushed bodies hanging off the landing gear were observed by another 727 flying alongside the aircraft.
 
petertenthije
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:04 pm

777 wrote:
Honestly, how is this possible? How can you take off without performing a visual check, knowing that the aircraft was literally surrounded by people during the taxi?

Because the people where literally climbing on the plane while it was taxiing on the departure runway! Kabul airport is not the safe and security-sterile environment you’ll find in the USA or Europe. It’s not unlike the migrants climbing on board lorries at the Calais eurotunnel terminal.
 
zanl188
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:13 pm

flyingturtle wrote:
flyingturtle wrote:
SAS A340 wrote:
People reported falling from the sky while departing . Media report people was hanging outside the C-17 on takeoff. Oh my god.


Indeed. Oh my God.

C-17 rolling, with people on the landing gear fairing: https://twitter.com/TOLOnews/status/1427204278695997442

Blurry video of two people falling from a flying C-17: https://twitter.com/AsvakaNews/status/1 ... 0054515730


C-17 taxiing video is very suspicious. No wheels turning. No copilot. No fan blades visible. No jet exhaust visible
 
777
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:14 pm

petertenthije wrote:
777 wrote:
Honestly, how is this possible? How can you take off without performing a visual check, knowing that the aircraft was literally surrounded by people during the taxi?

Because the people where literally climbing on the plane while it was taxiing on the departure runway! Kabul airport is not the safe and security-sterile environment you’ll find in the USA or Europe. It’s not unlike the migrants climbing on board lorries at the Calais eurotunnel terminal.

Since everyone on board was aware of the situation, a final visual check before starting the take off would have been more than appropriate.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:18 pm

petertenthije wrote:
777 wrote:
Honestly, how is this possible? How can you take off without performing a visual check, knowing that the aircraft was literally surrounded by people during the taxi?

Because the people where literally climbing on the plane while it was taxiing on the departure runway! Kabul airport is not the safe and security-sterile environment you’ll find in the USA or Europe. It’s not unlike the migrants climbing on board lorries at the Calais eurotunnel terminal.


Just saw some pictures of this, terrible, just shocking. This C17 took off in the middle of a crowd. Total chaos. Seven are reportedly dead.

An unhuman situation, an unhuman decision to take off. Not condemning the crew at all. Total chaos and this crew did what it did at the midst of these thousands and thousands of people seeing that plane as their last hope to get to freedom.
 
johns624
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:19 pm

777 wrote:
petertenthije wrote:
777 wrote:
Honestly, how is this possible? How can you take off without performing a visual check, knowing that the aircraft was literally surrounded by people during the taxi?

Because the people where literally climbing on the plane while it was taxiing on the departure runway! Kabul airport is not the safe and security-sterile environment you’ll find in the USA or Europe. It’s not unlike the migrants climbing on board lorries at the Calais eurotunnel terminal.

Since everyone on board was aware of the situation, a final visual check before starting the take off would have been more than appropriate.
What could they have done about it? They were in a no-win situation.
 
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LyleLanley
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:33 pm

I'm sure if the crew had stopped, shut down engines, and then explained the situation from the top egress chute (because I'm sure they speak the local language) this whole situation would've been avoided... :roll:

zanl188 wrote:
C-17 taxiing video is very suspicious. No wheels turning. No copilot. No fan blades visible. No jet exhaust visible


The video is legit and not at all suspicious if you use some common sense. Why no wheels turning? You'd probably be able to see them turn if you shoo'ed away the throngs of people from the gear areas, since they're keeping up with the jet. No copilot? They're there, just doing their job and don't have time to pose for your cameraman. No fan blades visible? Probably because they're turning and/or the video quality isn't 4K. No jet exhaust visible? It's not a B-52 and its effects sure are, as evidenced by the huge plume of dirt kicked up behind the jet. Please try to think before you post.
 
HaveBlue
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:01 pm

zanl188 wrote:
flyingturtle wrote:
flyingturtle wrote:


Indeed. Oh my God.

C-17 rolling, with people on the landing gear fairing: https://twitter.com/TOLOnews/status/1427204278695997442

Blurry video of two people falling from a flying C-17: https://twitter.com/AsvakaNews/status/1 ... 0054515730


C-17 taxiing video is very suspicious. No wheels turning. No copilot. No fan blades visible. No jet exhaust visible


There is absolutely nothing suspicious about that video and it is airing on every single main stream media news outlet, I'm pretty sure they vetted it. I love when people conjure conspiracies out of thin air.
 
boacvc10
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:38 pm

zanl188 wrote:
flyingturtle wrote:
flyingturtle wrote:


Indeed. Oh my God.

C-17 rolling, with people on the landing gear fairing: https://twitter.com/TOLOnews/status/1427204278695997442

Blurry video of two people falling from a flying C-17: https://twitter.com/AsvakaNews/status/1 ... 0054515730


C-17 taxiing video is very suspicious. No wheels turning. No copilot. No fan blades visible. No jet exhaust visible



Why would one expect to see online video from a country facing collapse and imminent danger of mass executions to be of high quality? Have a thought for the damned. Just wondering of what people think of when they post comments demanding to see high def video of their airplanes yet fail to realize the severity of the crisis and the possible enslavement of women and children once the men are executed when the Taliban revert back to barbarism.. does it make sense to demand everything be 4K resolution 60fps movie theater Dolby sound for your high def studio monitor?

Mods... Apologies for this comment and you can consider banning me but this is a relevant statement that we should as aviation fans and professionals give respect to those that are going to perish or have perished and I sure hope we all can consider giving support to the afghan air force units who escaped to other countries, or valiantly perished in their bid to do so. They at least have tried.

Reference: 25th Match 1971 first use of experimental video tape recorder and video camera to document mass executions of intellectuals in Dhaka, East Pakistan by Pakistan military. Video tape was smuggled out few weeks later to be broadcast by BBC and helped establish the basis of Concert for Bangladesh and the ensuing support for birth of a new country.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:08 pm

889091 wrote:
Wouldn't they have been able to fit more in a Galaxy? Why didn't they send a C5 instead? I assume a Galaxy can also perform a tactical descent?


No jacks in Kabul, simple. It didn’t work out too well on the last shambolic evacuation, either.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Tue Aug 17, 2021 1:53 am

I’m actually surprised they were able to hold on to the outside of the plane during the takeoff roll and it got pretty high before they fell. It pains me to watch this, this is my generations Vietnam, specifically the overrun of Saigon.

SAS A340 wrote:
Never seen anything like it before... :pray:

Reminds me of watching 9/11 on tv at 8 years old.
LyleLanley wrote:
reminds me of the World Airways 727 out of Da Nang…

I saw a video about that a couple years ago. Seeing the crowd around the taxiing C17 made me think of that too.
 
tj1230
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:48 am

Kudos to the pilots to take off with this many people. They could have easily said, no we are not going to fly this because it could be dangerous to have this many people on the airplane. I think they knew that if they kick some people off, these people who don't make it on the plane might not make it out of Kabul and they didn't want to be the ones to decide those people's future.
Does anyone else think that the withdrawl could have been planned a bit better? I don't want to be critical of the president but i think a more orderly drawdown would have been better than scrambling around like this. I know Joe Biden didn't want a helicopters leaving from the embassy in Saigon moment, but i think the people running after the C-17 is a video that we will all remember for how disturbing it is. .
 
Max Q
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:12 am

tj1230 wrote:
Kudos to the pilots to take off with this many people. They could have easily said, no we are not going to fly this because it could be dangerous to have this many people on the airplane. I think they knew that if they kick some people off, these people who don't make it on the plane might not make it out of Kabul and they didn't want to be the ones to decide those people's future.
Does anyone else think that the withdrawl could have been planned a bit better? I don't want to be critical of the president but i think a more orderly drawdown would have been better than scrambling around like this. I know Joe Biden didn't want a helicopters leaving from the embassy in Saigon moment, but i think the people running after the C-17 is a video that we will all remember for how disturbing it is. .




Not discrediting the C17 crew for a moment but don’t you think they wanted to get out of there too ?!


They weren’t going back for anything




Besides, even if they had 800 people on board they would still not be exceeding the maximum payload of 170000 pounds, using 195 pounds per passenger they’d have a payload of 156000 pounds, people are light compared to the cargo loads this aircraft is capable of carrying



It was probably pretty uncomfortable but not really unsafe, especially when you consider the alternative



If you want to blame anyone it’s ‘W’ he got us into this pointless war and there was never any other way out that wouldn’t end like this



Joe had the guts to say ‘no more’
 
angad84
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:34 am

tj1230 wrote:
Does anyone else think that the withdrawl could have been planned a bit better?

I think pretty much the whole world agrees on that.
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:20 am

angad84 wrote:
tj1230 wrote:
Does anyone else think that the withdraw[a]l could have been planned a bit better?

I think pretty much the whole world agrees on that.


As a requirement, the US should have stayed in Afghanistan longer - and with force - to properly hand the country over. And, actually testing, in maneuvers or actual operations, whether the National Army can fend off the Taliban for long enough.

But here's a tidbit from the previous war:

"While the withdrawal was professionally conducted with minimum loss of life and material on the Soviet side, the announcement of an official timetable with the signing of the Geneva Accords in 1988 forced the Soviets to hand over authority in certain provinces prematurely, which created vacuums that could not be filled by the overstretched DRA military and substantially contributed to the insurgents controlling ever larger chunks of terrain, particularly in Eastern Afghanistan."

We apparently never learn...
Last edited by flyingturtle on Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
LTEN11
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:20 am

[quote=f"angad84"]
tj1230 wrote:
Does anyone else think that the withdrawl could have been planned a bit better?

I think pretty much the whole world agrees on that.[/quote]

The withdrawal had already been completed, the only troops left were those protecting embassies and the like. It was up to the Afghan army to defend their country, they had been trained and well equipped, but the simple bottom line is that they were not up to it. More bluntly, they didn't have the heart and guts to fight for their own country and have allowed their country to be dragged backwards yet again. Those Afghan soldiers were most likely amongst those chasing the C-17.

The scenes were heart breaking, but in all honesty, if the withdrawal had happened, 5, 10, 15, or now at the 20 year mark since the invasion, the results would've been the same, the Taliban would've taken control again. Hopefully one day the long suffering people of Afghanistan will have lasting peace, without fear of their own government/regime, or foreign invader, doubtful I'll see it in my lifetime though.

There were apparently 640 people on the flight.
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:27 am

LTEN11 wrote:
More bluntly, they didn't have the heart and guts to fight for their own country and have allowed their country to be dragged backwards yet again.


The National Army was never able to shed the stigma of just being the junior partner of the NATO troops. They were never accepted and respected by the regional chiefs up there in the mountains, where their fighting power would have mattered the most. ANA officers and soldiers were mostly there for the pay and the chance to rake in bribes. They knew themselves they were out of luck, because preparing the army for such a case would have meant setting the priorities right several years ago.
 
777
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C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:34 am

johns624 wrote:
What could they have done about it? They were in a no-win situation.


There is indeed: considering the extraordinary situation during the taxi you just perform a visual check before taking off so that you are sure no one is hung outside.
 
Max Q
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:43 am

777 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
What could they have done about it? They were in a no-win situation.


There is indeed: considering the extraordinary situation during the taxi you just perform a visual check before taking off so that you are sure no one is hung outside.



That’s just pure fantasy, what if someone is hanging on outside?


You’d have to shoot them to make them let go, and then someone else would take their place


This wasn’t DFW, it’s the last western controlled airport in the middle of a war zone, people will do anything to get out including risking almost certain death
 
JeremyB
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:49 am

flyingturtle wrote:
LTEN11 wrote:
More bluntly, they didn't have the heart and guts to fight for their own country and have allowed their country to be dragged backwards yet again.


The National Army was never able to shed the stigma of just being the junior partner of the NATO troops. They were never accepted and respected by the regional chiefs up there in the mountains, where their fighting power would have mattered the most. ANA officers and soldiers were mostly there for the pay and the chance to rake in bribes. They knew themselves they were out of luck, because preparing the army for such a case would have meant setting the priorities right several years ago.


Not just that, but commanders and other higher-ups fled towards neighbouring countries such as Tajikistan. The national army fell apart and the Taliban simply marched towards Kabul without too much trouble.

It's a sad situation and seeing those poor souls falling of that C-17 makes it even worse
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:04 am

And the German Luftwaffle flew out seven civilians with an A400.

Seven.

At first, the military transport circled the airport for five hours. It was on the ground for 40 minutes. And because most of the 57 embassy employees and 88 German nationals were not present at the airport, it took off again... with those seven people.

And before that, people died clambering to a C-17. I hope their souls will torment the German armed forces.
 
zanl188
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:48 am

LyleLanley wrote:
Please try to think before you post.


As someone who has worked on a C-17 or two, I suggest you do the same.
 
petertenthije
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:53 am

flyingturtle wrote:
And the German Luftwaffle flew out seven civilians with an A400.

Has that been officially confirmed?

Depending on the source, I’ve read that seven people where evacuated from the list of people the Germans wanted to evacuate.

However, some sources say additional people may have been on board, that where not on the list.

This might all be a big mis understanding or bad translation!
 
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bikerthai
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:01 pm

Max Q wrote:
If you want to blame anyone it’s ‘W’ he got us into this pointless war and there was never any other way out that wouldn’t end like this


Wrong and right.

"W" did not started the war. It was started with the 9-11 attack.

"W" did take is eye off the ball when he went in to Iraq before finishing the job in Afganistan.

But, not sure if Afganistan could ever be won when our own "ally" the Pakistani are supporting the enemy.

Just hope that the Taliban is smart enough to be satisfied with their own little empire and not try let rogue elements operate in their country again. Look to Iran as an example. For over 50 years they have been a thorn in the US's side. But they have been smart enough do their deeds locally and not reach out to the US main land.

Now I just hope that the Taliban and the Iranians will be too busy facing off each other to bother with the rest of the word.

Both Iraq and Afganistan shows that people who are willing to fight for their country can achieve. It' s just most of Afganisfans wants to go backward.

bt
Last edited by bikerthai on Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:06 pm

petertenthije wrote:
flyingturtle wrote:
And the German Luftwaffle flew out seven civilians with an A400.

Has that been officially confirmed?


Yes.

"German authorities have confirmed that a first Bundeswehr evacuation flight carried just seven people. But the Foreign Ministry said there were good reasons for that."

https://www.dw.com/en/afghanistan-germa ... a-58883406
 
johns624
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:56 pm

777 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
What could they have done about it? They were in a no-win situation.


There is indeed: considering the extraordinary situation during the taxi you just perform a visual check before taking off so that you are sure no one is hung outside.
You still haven't answered what they could've done about it. Was the loadmaster supposed to go outside and pull them off. Were they just going to sit there until everyone climbed down and went home? I'm sure the crew thought that they would jump off when the plane started its takeoff roll.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:11 pm

Anyone thinking the evacuation with people hanging onto planes is bad, go back and watch people jumping off the 100th floor of the WTC. That bit of horror was brought to you by the very same Taliban that just took over after we evicted them in 90 days. Get ready for the future because it’s coming.
 
estorilm
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:26 pm

johns624 wrote:
777 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
What could they have done about it? They were in a no-win situation.


There is indeed: considering the extraordinary situation during the taxi you just perform a visual check before taking off so that you are sure no one is hung outside.
You still haven't answered what they could've done about it. Was the loadmaster supposed to go outside and pull them off. Were they just going to sit there until everyone climbed down and went home? I'm sure the crew thought that they would jump off when the plane started its takeoff roll.

Exactly, they were likely under orders to NOT stop the aircraft - especially with that many people onboard. These folks were ALL warned (at gunpoint from what I understand) to not interfere with the aircraft. The crews mission was to GTFO of dodge at that point, and they did so. There were likely ~100 people chasing that aircraft as it taxied along, does anyone really think they're going to stop and perform a second pre-flight so the plane can be stormed just before take-off with 800 souls onboard?! No. Takeoff thrust set.. lets go!
 
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LyleLanley
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:51 pm

zanl188 wrote:
LyleLanley wrote:
Please try to think before you post.


As someone who has worked on a C-17 or two, I suggest you do the same.


You having turned a wrench or dumped jet-a into a Barney doesn’t make you a digital forensic investigator or empower you to start a conspiracy theory based solely on not thinking critically whilst viewing a shaky video shot on an iPhone 4 during one of the most chaotic episodes of our lives.

Maybe the FLIR tapes from the Apaches that cleared the runway will meet your burden of proof, but I won’t hold my breath.
 
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scbriml
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Tue Aug 17, 2021 5:00 pm

777 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
What could they have done about it? They were in a no-win situation.


There is indeed: considering the extraordinary situation during the taxi you just perform a visual check before taking off so that you are sure no one is hung outside.


How do you propose doing that? Wait for the TSA?
 
777
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Tue Aug 17, 2021 5:34 pm

scbriml wrote:
777 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
What could they have done about it? They were in a no-win situation.


There is indeed: considering the extraordinary situation during the taxi you just perform a visual check before taking off so that you are sure no one is hung outside.


How do you propose doing that? Wait for the TSA?

No, obviously.

1 - stop the take off
2- call your ground forces and ask them to enforce everyone hanged at the aircraft to get out (which doesn’t necessarily mean shooting at them)
3- proceed with your take off

I understand that Europeans and Americans have a very different point of view on how to handle situations like this, but if this would have happened to any European Air Force, it would have created an humongous scandal with huge and long term repercussions.
 
777
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Tue Aug 17, 2021 5:34 pm

scbriml wrote:
777 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
What could they have done about it? They were in a no-win situation.


There is indeed: considering the extraordinary situation during the taxi you just perform a visual check before taking off so that you are sure no one is hung outside.


How do you propose doing that? Wait for the TSA?

No, obviously.

1 - stop the take off
2- call your ground forces and ask them to enforce everyone hanged at the aircraft to get out (which doesn’t necessarily mean shooting at them)
3- proceed with your take off

I understand that Europeans and Americans have a very different point of view on how to handle situations like this, but if this would have happened to any European Air Force, it would have created an humongous scandal with huge and long term repercussions.
 
johns624
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:11 pm

777 wrote:

I understand that Europeans and Americans have a very different point of view on how to handle situations like this, but if this would have happened to any European Air Force, it would have created an humongous scandal with huge and long term repercussions.
That begs the question---where were the European air forces? I'm sure there were plenty of their citizens there. That's right, it's easier to criticize when you're not there. It appears that the "European way" is to stay at home. Oh wait, the Luftwaffe rescued 8 people. That makes it all better...
 
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scbriml
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:39 pm

zanl188 wrote:
C-17 taxiing video is very suspicious. No wheels turning. No copilot. No fan blades visible. No jet exhaust visible


Whatever you do, don't search for the in-flight video taken through a door window.
 
777
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:44 pm

johns624 wrote:
777 wrote:

I understand that Europeans and Americans have a very different point of view on how to handle situations like this, but if this would have happened to any European Air Force, it would have created an humongous scandal with huge and long term repercussions.
That begs the question---where were the European air forces? I'm sure there were plenty of their citizens there. That's right, it's easier to criticize when you're not there. It appears that the "European way" is to stay at home. Oh wait, the Luftwaffe rescued 8 people. That makes it all better...

The discussion is about a different way to handle this take-off and I have described a scenario alternative to “just take off and who cares about them”.

Diverting the discussion on where the European forces are (without taking into consideration the different proportions into the game) doesn’t really help.

BTW the Italian KC-767 was amongst the first to arrive in Kabul and it took onboard 74 people, including around 20 Afghan collaborators.
Smaller presence, smaller numbers.
 
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scbriml
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:47 pm

johns624 wrote:
That begs the question---where were the European air forces? I'm sure there were plenty of their citizens there. That's right, it's easier to criticize when you're not there. It appears that the "European way" is to stay at home. Oh wait, the Luftwaffe rescued 8 people. That makes it all better...


Do you feel better getting that off your chest?

If you could be bothered to read the thread in civ-av you'd be aware that there have been lots of European movements. The German A400 with a handful of evacuees was due to an unfortunate set of circumstances.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1463859

The UK has already deployed 900 troops to assist with securing the airport.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58235707

I appreciate it's annoying when facts get in the way of a good rant. :sarcastic:
 
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scbriml
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:57 pm

777 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
777 wrote:

There is indeed: considering the extraordinary situation during the taxi you just perform a visual check before taking off so that you are sure no one is hung outside.


How do you propose doing that? Wait for the TSA?

No, obviously.

1 - stop the take off
2- call your ground forces and ask them to enforce everyone hanged at the aircraft to get out (which doesn’t necessarily mean shooting at them)
3- proceed with your take off

I understand that Europeans and Americans have a very different point of view on how to handle situations like this, but if this would have happened to any European Air Force, it would have created an humongous scandal with huge and long term repercussions.


It seems you really don't understand the magnitude of the chaos at the airport yesterday. There are plenty of photos showing it and the inability of US troops to keep civilians away from the planes. Actual pictures of troops yelling at people with weapons raised and being ignored with a shrug of the shoulders. Difficult to control such crowds when they're more frightened of the Taliban than US troops.

Thankfully, things seem to be much more orderly today.
 
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scbriml
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:06 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Anyone thinking the evacuation with people hanging onto planes is bad, go back and watch people jumping off the 100th floor of the WTC. That bit of horror was brought to you by the very same Taliban that just took over after we evicted them in 90 days. Get ready for the future because it’s coming.


Remind me how the Taliban was directly responsible for the 9-11 attacks? If you're holding them responsible (I'm not sure anyone else does), then you probably need to add the CIA and Operation Cyclone to your list.
 
stratable
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:09 pm

scbriml wrote:
johns624 wrote:
That begs the question---where were the European air forces? I'm sure there were plenty of their citizens there. That's right, it's easier to criticize when you're not there. It appears that the "European way" is to stay at home. Oh wait, the Luftwaffe rescued 8 people. That makes it all better...


Do you feel better getting that off your chest?

If you could be bothered to read the thread in civ-av you'd be aware that there have been lots of European movements. The German A400 with a handful of evacuees was due to an unfortunate set of circumstances.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1463859

The UK has already deployed 900 troops to assist with securing the airport.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58235707

I appreciate it's annoying when facts get in the way of a good rant. :sarcastic:


I agree with you, stating half-truths is simply annoying. Obviously the US still has the largest contingent of soldiers there which was good for everyone else.
There is a big discussion going on in Germany as to why the Bundeswehr was not already on the ground to get people out before the Taliban took Kabul.
Apparently, the German Embassy in Kabul warned weeks ago that the situation could turn dire quickly but the German Ministry for Foreign Affairs apparently relied on intelligence agencies
to determine the situation wasn't as bad.

Germany is also deploying 600 soldiers to aid in the evacuation. An initial contingent arrived on the flight that only took 7 people out. They're supposed to help Afghan employees make it to the airport and provide back up if required.
The mission is supposed to last until the end of August if possible.
Source:
https://www.spiegel.de/politik/afghanis ... aeed6d45f4 [in German]
 
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fortytwoeyes
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:30 pm

flyingturtle wrote:
And before that, people died clambering to a C-17. I hope their souls will torment the German armed forces.

Care to share your intelligence? I mean, with words like those you must have a pretty solid picture of the situation at the airport when the German plane was there.
 
FGITD
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Re: C-17 departs Kabul with 800 passengers!

Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:37 pm

That landing gear video is something horrific…I wonder how long the body stayed there.

This was a no-win situation

The people mobbing the airplane are likely thinking that if they don’t get on, they’ll die

The pilots are most likely thinking that if they don’t get out of there, everyone in that hold is at risk, and they might die.

The difference is that whoever is in the left seat is the captain of the ship, and responsible for everyone onboard. Not the people outside.

Save the lives of those you can. Let go of those you can’t.

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