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mxaxai
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First C-130J-30 for Germany painted

Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:39 pm

The aircraft, part of an order for 3 regular C-130J-30 and 3 KC-130J, was revealed in full colors yesterday. Delivery is planned for 2022.
They will be based at Évreux (EVX / LFOE) together with 2 C-130J-30 and 2 KC-130J of the French forces, which will operate as one squadron of 10 aircraft.
https://twitter.com/IDLw/status/1428802304472408070
Image
This is the first C-130 in Luftwaffe colours, after the type was initially rejected in favor of the then new C-160 Transall and later the A400M. If anyone wants to read about the decision nearly 50 years ago, there is a good article comparing C-130 and C-160 (in German, but Google translate or DeepL do a good job) https://www.flugrevue.de/klassiker/die- ... -transall/
 
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N14AZ
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Re: First C-130J-30 for Germany painted

Sat Aug 21, 2021 7:41 pm

That’s in deed a historic moment… back in the 80ies, when I was an active planespotter I always thought „wouldn’t it be cool if Luftwaffe would have some Hercules…“
 
texl1649
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Re: First C-130J-30 for Germany painted

Sun Aug 22, 2021 12:32 am

These will almost certainly operate past the 100 year anniversary of the 1st C-130 flight in 1954. Pretty incredible.
 
columba
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Re: First C-130J-30 for Germany painted

Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:52 pm

Very nice....sometimes good things need a while finally a German C130..
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: First C-130J-30 for Germany painted

Sat Aug 28, 2021 4:24 pm

Very cool. I like the shiny black nose.

However, what I don't understand is why they need C-160, C-130 and A400M? I get that they're one notch up insize for each, but operating multiple fleets of aircraft that do almost the same job..?

Are the Transalls being retired?
 
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SQ22
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Re: First C-130J-30 for Germany painted

Sat Aug 28, 2021 4:34 pm

JetBuddy wrote:
Very cool. I like the shiny black nose.

However, what I don't understand is why they need C-160, C-130 and A400M? I get that they're one notch up insize for each, but operating multiple fleets of aircraft that do almost the same job..?

Are the Transalls being retired?


Yes, according to this source by the end of this year.

German Air Force to Decommission Transall C-160 Military Transport Aircraft This Year

Feel free to start a separate thread on this in case you want to discussit further.
 
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JannEejit
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Re: First C-130J-30 for Germany painted

Sat Aug 28, 2021 5:23 pm

I got excited by the thread title thinking, maybe, just maybe it wasn't going to be another NATO grey aircraft. Oh well....
 
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alberchico
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Re: First C-130J-30 for Germany painted

Sat Aug 28, 2021 7:05 pm

Sorry if this is off topic but what is Lockheed Martin's long term plan for the Hercules ? Is the J model the end of the line or might we see a modernized version with a new power plant, new wing and upgraded avionics enter service at some point in the future ?
 
mxaxai
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Re: First C-130J-30 for Germany painted

Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:26 pm

alberchico wrote:
Sorry if this is off topic but what is Lockheed Martin's long term plan for the Hercules ? Is the J model the end of the line or might we see a modernized version with a new power plant, new wing and upgraded avionics enter service at some point in the future ?

It is off topic, but: LM has not announced a successor to the J. And I honestly can't see a reason for another major upgrade.
 
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fortytwoeyes
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Re: First C-130J-30 for Germany painted

Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:57 pm

JetBuddy wrote:
Are the Transalls being retired?


The last Transall was retired a couple of days ago. Source in German with picture of the farewell tour livery: https://esut.de/2021/08/meldungen/29157 ... -transall/
 
SteelChair
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Re: First C-130J-30 for Germany painted

Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:04 am

alberchico wrote:
Sorry if this is off topic but what is Lockheed Martin's long term plan for the Hercules ? Is the J model the end of the line or might we see a modernized version with a new power plant, new wing and upgraded avionics enter service at some point in the future ?


I wondered the same. Its been 22 years since the last update. One would think some engine tweaks/PIPS would be relatively easy.
 
ThePointblank
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Re: First C-130J-30 for Germany painted

Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:53 am

SteelChair wrote:
alberchico wrote:
Sorry if this is off topic but what is Lockheed Martin's long term plan for the Hercules ? Is the J model the end of the line or might we see a modernized version with a new power plant, new wing and upgraded avionics enter service at some point in the future ?


I wondered the same. Its been 22 years since the last update. One would think some engine tweaks/PIPS would be relatively easy.

The C-130J has seen some avionics upgrades over the years; the latest update is Block 8.1, which is a major avionics update to the aircraft, which enhances GPS capabilities, updates the communications suite, provides an updated friend-or-foe identification capabilities, and allows the aircraft to comply with worldwide air traffic management regulations.
 
777
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Re: First C-130J-30 for Germany painted

Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:25 pm

texl1649 wrote:
These will almost certainly operate past the 100 year anniversary of the 1st C-130 flight in 1954. Pretty incredible.

Agreed! The longevity of this aircraft and her adaptability to a complete refresh (from H to J) is really remarkable.

I would add to the list of very successful airframes the G-222 (now C-27J), the CH-47 and CH-53 (who came to a second life with the F and K versions respectively).

Great to see a C-130J for Luftwaffe BTW.
 
texl1649
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Re: First C-130J-30 for Germany painted

Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:08 pm

I think it is unlikely that the C-130J’s wind up getting a substantial further overhaul. The USAF, as with the US Army, seem to be in more of a ‘it’s time for vertical lift options’ for this role moving forward (expect another inter-service fight for who buys what).

https://www.airforcemag.com/air-force-c ... echnology/

Under typical questioning from members anxious about continuing C-130 missions for Guard and Reserve units in their districts, service “futurist” Lt. Gen. S. Clinton Hinote told the House Armed Services seapower and projection forces panel the Air Force no longer views the C-130 as “well suited” to the future tactical airlift mission, and it needs to replace it with “new capabilities” involving vertical lift technologies.

“There’s been a lot of discussion about tactical airlift in the future, and I think it’s important for me, as the Air Force’s futurist, to say something about it,” said Hinote, whose title is deputy chief of staff for strategy, integration, and requirements.

In wargaming scenarios with China, and given the Air Force’s plan to island- and location-hop to avoid enemy missiles, “we run significant risk in [tactical] airlift, especially in conducting logistics under attack,” Hinote said. The “C-130 capability is not well-suited to address this risk,” he said. “That’s why we feel we need to retire a certain number of the older C-130s, while addressing this airlift risk in new ways, with new capabilities.”

In scenarios where logistics is under attack by China, Russia, or other adversaries, “what we see is that the capability for vertical lift is going to be really important for us; i.e., getting away from the fixed runway, so that we can do logistics in a way that is somewhat disruptive, and, frankly, a lot harder to target.”

Hinote said there are “quite a few efforts going on” with regard to battlefield vertical lift. The Army is pursuing a number of new rotary-craft programs, which Hinote said the Air Force is “following very closely,” but “at the very same time, we’re exploring vertical lift programs inside of our RDT&E as well.” Hinote did not forecast when the Air Force might start moving toward the new capability with a program of record.

In recent years, contractors have shown a variety of vertical-lift or short takeoff/vertical landing concepts for a future battlefield, from quad-tiltrotors to stealthy tactical transports with lift fans in their wings. Some have also promoted a new generation of airships for the lift mission; all oriented toward a future that weans the Air Force off long runways. Being able to operate from locations with no runway would multiply the locations the Air Force could operate from, thus multiplying the targeting problem for an adversary.

In a nod to the members’ concerns, Hinote said this new capability “may be a very important part of the reserve component, because the idea of vertical lift could also play a huge role in some of the responsibilities that …governors have” for humanitarian and disaster relief.

Lt. Gen. David S. Nahom, deputy chief of staff for plans and programs, told the panel the Air Force sees a near-term C-130 fleet of 255 airframes, which includes “163 C-130Js, either existing or on order, and 92 C-130Hs, which we’ll upgrade to the level we need to. We’ll move forward with that fleet,” he said.


Now, could Lockheed deploy the lobbyists/political pressure to change that? Wouldn’t surprise me much, honestly (keesje rant incoming), but I sort of doubt it, unless they decide they can ‘affordable’ convert the frame with a new wing box/wing/tail/engines into a quad tilt rotor still having some sort of commonality with the legacy J’s. I…really doubt they go that route, but again nothing is out of the realm of possibility. To really pull it off I’d think they’d need to partner with their…mortal enemy in helicopters/Army procurements; Bell, and the frame is just not ideally suited for it (heavier/old). They are more likely to go to something more closely resembling ‘speed agile’ imho, but with VTOL capabilities.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/2 ... ort-part-2

If you can dream it, someone has probably studied some radical version of a herc;

Image

Rockwall did a study with a bizarre version but I don’t see a good image to link (and it was enormously impractical/ancient).
 
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N14AZ
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Re: First C-130J-30 for Germany painted

Wed Nov 10, 2021 2:54 pm

First flight:

Image
Source: https://www.aero.de/news-41237/Hier-sta ... cules.html

„Completely on time and without any scandals..“, that’s how this article starts… well, that’s how it is!
 
FlapOperator
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Re: First C-130J-30 for Germany painted

Thu Nov 11, 2021 4:17 am

I wonder if the Germans have any interest in HARVEST HAWK?
 
texl1649
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Re: First C-130J-30 for Germany painted

Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:03 pm

I really doubt the Germans fund a program to put Hellfires on the Hercs, LOL.
 
FlapOperator
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Re: First C-130J-30 for Germany painted

Thu Nov 11, 2021 11:59 pm

texl1649 wrote:
I really doubt the Germans fund a program to put Hellfires on the Hercs, LOL.


Harvest Hawk comes with sensors, too.

Frankly most of the requirements for EU missions in Africa could be answered with Harvest Hawk.
 
Max Q
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Re: First C-130J-30 for Germany painted

Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:14 pm

mxaxai wrote:
alberchico wrote:
Sorry if this is off topic but what is Lockheed Martin's long term plan for the Hercules ? Is the J model the end of the line or might we see a modernized version with a new power plant, new wing and upgraded avionics enter service at some point in the future ?

It is off topic, but: LM has not announced a successor to the J. And I honestly can't see a reason for another major upgrade.



I really don’t see why not, as newer, more advanced and efficient engines are developed the C130 would be an obvious candidate for re-engining and other upgrades


The basic platform is still unbeatable and, like the CH47 indefinitely upgradable


Some aircraft defy obsolescence !
 
Flying-Tiger
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Re: First C-130J-30 for Germany painted

Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:17 pm

Max Q wrote:
The basic platform is still unbeatable and, like the CH47 indefinitely upgradable

Some aircraft defy obsolescence !


Upgrades on basic frames this old come with their own set of restrictions and compromises. The CH-47 Block II is now delivered without the advanced rotor blades due to vibrations (at least for now), reducing cargo performance by quite a margin. The hold of the C-130J isn´t really fit for today´s typical vehicles, and new vehicles have either to be engineered to fit into the hold at a compromise for the vehicle, or can´t be flown with the Herc.

That´s certainly not saying that another upgrade doesn´t make sense, though one has to live with the consequences (compromises) compared to newer platforms.
 
mxaxai
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Re: First C-130J-30 for Germany painted

Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:36 pm

Max Q wrote:
I really don’t see why not, as newer, more advanced and efficient engines are developed the C130 would be an obvious candidate for re-engining and other upgrades

I'm not sure whether newer engines really make sense. The military doesn't really care about 10% lower operating costs, and the C-130 has more than enough range for any tactical mission. If you need more range, e. g. for SAR, the C-130 can add fuel tanks under the wing and in the cargo hold.

Payload mass and volume is limited by structural elements that would be very costly to change, at least not beyond some relatively minor improvements. The cruise speed is limited by the aerodynamics, which again are costly to modify. If you're designing a new wing, new fuselage and new engines, you might as well develop a clean-sheet design.

STOL performance is probably the easiest to improve on but I'm not sure if it's demanded by the current users.

The C-130J is perfect at being an affordable, very versatile tactical airlifter. Hence why I don't expect any major upgrades.

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