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alberchico
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It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:53 am

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4 ... -happening

I have no idea if this is really feasible but I hope it gets built.
 
Newark727
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:58 am

As a supporter of putting floats on as many different types of airplane as possible, I endorse this proposal. Hope to see one at the Greenville Seaplane Fly-In circa 2050.
 
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alberchico
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:24 am

After thinking about it I foresee two problems:

1. Adding floats to an aircraft of this size would generate a massive amount of drag that would greatly limit its range. Lockheed previously pursued a concept that reduced drag.
Image

2. The amount of room needed for takeoff would restrict the bodies of water that this aircraft could operate from, which is the issue that plagued the Russian Be-200.
 
aumaverick
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:21 pm

I'll be sure to keep my eyes peeled for any sight of this herculean duck coming out of Dobbins.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:34 pm

Look at the size of these floats... They're almost comically large.
It's like grafting 2 ATR fuselages to the side of a Herc.

Wherever they intend to fly this thing, I hope they don't plan on going very fast.
 
FlapOperator
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:32 pm

The correct answer to this requirement is the US-2.

A flying boat > a kludged landplane.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:36 pm

If anyone can do it, it’ll be the SOF, completely independent budgeting authority, lots of political, horsepower and limitless imagination.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:36 pm

FlapOperator wrote:
The correct answer to this requirement is the US-2.

A flying boat > a kludged landplane.


Serious truth there. Much better idea.
 
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Devilfish
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:15 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
If anyone can do it, it’ll be the SOF, completely independent budgeting authority, lots of political, horsepower and limitless imagination.

Is Howard Hughes back from the dead? Wonder what the AFSOC would strafe with such a lumbering giant..... :scratchchin:

Image
https://external-preview.redd.it/0HslMO ... c61311903e


https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-wing ... 90.article
 
aumaverick
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:30 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
FlapOperator wrote:
The correct answer to this requirement is the US-2.

A flying boat > a kludged landplane.


Serious truth there. Much better idea.


Yes, but, it doesn't have a cargo loading ramp. I think providing the ability to rapidly onload/offload boats, equipment and troops would be a requirement for the infil/exfil role noted.
 
Newark727
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:34 pm

Quick! Somebody go dust off the blueprints for this thing!
 
GDB
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:44 pm

Big flying boats? Go big or go home;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saunders-Roe_Princess
 
texl1649
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:52 pm

Ok, this is kinda fun, lol, and theoretically it could take off from and land on a runway, but I have to think that with 2 (!) main landing gear, it couldn't exactly land with...much of a payload on one. Least of all if it weren't a perfect/improved runway (obviating the advantages it might otherwise offer). I think aviation geeks of all flavors/nationalities basically want to see it happen just for fun, but I'm not sure how practical it is without...a lot of refueling etc. It certainly couldn't be 'snuck' into theater, and would require a lot of tankers (KC-130's I presume?) to go very far.
 
FlapOperator
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:52 pm

aumaverick wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
FlapOperator wrote:
The correct answer to this requirement is the US-2.

A flying boat > a kludged landplane.


Serious truth there. Much better idea.


Yes, but, it doesn't have a cargo loading ramp. I think providing the ability to rapidly onload/offload boats, equipment and troops would be a requirement for the infil/exfil role noted.


You aren't doing that stuff off a C-130 on Edo floats, either.

Air drop that off -17s with SOLL training the way God intended.
 
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Moose135
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:00 pm

alberchico wrote:
After thinking about it I foresee two problems:

1. Adding floats to an aircraft of this size would generate a massive amount of drag that would greatly limit its range. Lockheed previously pursued a concept that reduced drag.
Image


That looks a lot like a 4-engine Grumman Albatross.
 
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scbriml
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:19 am

Moose135 wrote:
alberchico wrote:
After thinking about it I foresee two problems:

1. Adding floats to an aircraft of this size would generate a massive amount of drag that would greatly limit its range. Lockheed previously pursued a concept that reduced drag.
Image


That looks a lot like a 4-engine Grumman Albatross.


It looks way cooler than this hideous beast:
Image
Source: article linked in OP
 
texl1649
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:23 am

The original Lockheed design, with the engines moved to over the wing and using the whole fuselage as a flotation device, would have required vastly more engineering/work/modifications than throwing two giant pontoons underneath the thing.
 
aumaverick
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:06 pm

Did I read this right and see the goal of this project is to have a removable and modular float system to adapt to the SOC Hercs?
 
TangoandCash
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:14 pm

Checks calendar to confirm it is not April 1...
 
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STT757
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:33 pm

I'm guessing the need is for moving larger pieces of equipment around Pacific Atolls, otherwise why not just try to squeeze more range out of V-22s.
 
texl1649
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:42 pm

aumaverick wrote:
Did I read this right and see the goal of this project is to have a removable and modular float system to adapt to the SOC Hercs?


I don't think it is going to be very 'removable' but I anticipate it will be basically bolted to the existing landing gear mounts.

The real question is when will we see a similar spec offered for the A400M? C'mon, this is a.net...
 
CX747
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:49 am

AFSOC is the right home to back this and make it happen in some capacity.

1- Proven and proverbial trash hauling champion.
2- The right type of talent to take an idea and make it feasible.
3- Water is everywhere and adding the capability of hauling a C-130 sized load into a bazillion and one additional environments just made the guys in China curse out loud.

Also, this mod won't be available for the perennial can't do that job A400M until yeah... Let's call a spade a spade, when you need to slam down a trash hauler, in the dirt, on an unproven strip and everyone's tail end is on the line, the orders only read C-130. Amazing blindness right now in the UK over that, although I hear those that really get it are screaming. Interesting to watch France and Germany make the right call and scratch their heads as the UK puts theirs up for sale.
 
CX747
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:53 am

STT757 wrote:
I'm guessing the need is for moving larger pieces of equipment around Pacific Atolls, otherwise why not just try to squeeze more range out of V-22s.


You hit the nail on the head. A bigger load, further range and less complexity in the C-130. The ability to land that type of load, without a runway, adds a fantastic layer of complexity for our enemies in the East, or is it West? In the future, the fleet may all go in a tilt-rotor fashion but for the foreseeable future the C-130, in its many guises, is King Kong.
 
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kitplane01
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:43 am

CX747 wrote:
STT757 wrote:
I'm guessing the need is for moving larger pieces of equipment around Pacific Atolls, otherwise why not just try to squeeze more range out of V-22s.


You hit the nail on the head. A bigger load, further range and less complexity in the C-130. The ability to land that type of load, without a runway, adds a fantastic layer of complexity for our enemies in the East, or is it West? In the future, the fleet may all go in a tilt-rotor fashion but for the foreseeable future the C-130, in its many guises, is King Kong.


I'm trying to picture the mission. It cannot be anything clandestine, since the C-130 has the radar cross section of an ABBA concert with disco balls. It cannot be anyplace with a runway .. otherwise use a normal C130. Can you describe to me a sample mission??
 
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bikerthai
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:01 am

Dropping off clandestin listening posts around the Indonesian archipelago. Should the Chinese navy make it that far south.

During WWIi Catalinas were used to pick up downed pilots in the Pacific. What would be the procedure to rescue downed B-52 between Japan and Guam?

bt
 
Newark727
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:57 am

bikerthai wrote:
Dropping off clandestin listening posts around the Indonesian archipelago. Should the Chinese navy make it that far south.

During WWIi Catalinas were used to pick up downed pilots in the Pacific. What would be the procedure to rescue downed B-52 between Japan and Guam?

bt


HC-130Js and helicopters?
 
744SPX
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:21 am

Judging by the size and likely weight of those gargantuan pontoons and attachment frame, I'd bet the C-130J's cruise speed will be reduced by at least 100mph and payload/range to no more than the V-22's (and quite possibly less); essentially making it a V22 without VTOL capability and a tarmac footprint 3-4 times the size.

Now consider a stock C-130J costs the same as an MV-22 and will most definitely be more in this configuration.

Bad idea all the way around IMO. AFSOC would be FAR better served by more V-22's.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:52 am

Newark727 wrote:
HC-130Js and helicopters?


The herc can drop off. But picking up would be a problem. Deployment of helicopter would require slow moving ships.

You can drop off a pallet on a beach but risk it ending up in the sea or in the jungle.

bt
 
GDB
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:28 am

CX747 wrote:
AFSOC is the right home to back this and make it happen in some capacity.

1- Proven and proverbial trash hauling champion.
2- The right type of talent to take an idea and make it feasible.
3- Water is everywhere and adding the capability of hauling a C-130 sized load into a bazillion and one additional environments just made the guys in China curse out loud.

Also, this mod won't be available for the perennial can't do that job A400M until yeah... Let's call a spade a spade, when you need to slam down a trash hauler, in the dirt, on an unproven strip and everyone's tail end is on the line, the orders only read C-130. Amazing blindness right now in the UK over that, although I hear those that really get it are screaming. Interesting to watch France and Germany make the right call and scratch their heads as the UK puts theirs up for sale.


Sure about that with the A400M? Don't disagree with the folly of recently refurbished C-130J's going, unless some extra A400M's are picked up, any 'white tails/result of reduced orders from others' are available;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoEwwxsNwHQ

These trials were done 5 years ago, maybe it depends of the AF?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpkvKhQGnzU
 
aumaverick
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:21 pm

744SPX wrote:
Judging by the size and likely weight of those gargantuan pontoons and attachment frame, I'd bet the C-130J's cruise speed will be reduced by at least 100mph and payload/range to no more than the V-22's (and quite possibly less); essentially making it a V22 without VTOL capability and a tarmac footprint 3-4 times the size.

Now consider a stock C-130J costs the same as an MV-22 and will most definitely be more in this configuration.

Bad idea all the way around IMO. AFSOC would be FAR better served by more V-22's.


Am I missing something? Comparing the payload capabilities of the Herc to the Osprey is like comparing a Jeep Wrangler to a F-150. The frog eaters aren't known to dismiss current capabilities without a good reason, and having a greater cabin size and payload capability, even on floats, must outweigh what the V-22 can bring.
 
CX747
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:10 pm

aumaverick wrote:
744SPX wrote:
Judging by the size and likely weight of those gargantuan pontoons and attachment frame, I'd bet the C-130J's cruise speed will be reduced by at least 100mph and payload/range to no more than the V-22's (and quite possibly less); essentially making it a V22 without VTOL capability and a tarmac footprint 3-4 times the size.

Now consider a stock C-130J costs the same as an MV-22 and will most definitely be more in this configuration.

Bad idea all the way around IMO. AFSOC would be FAR better served by more V-22's.


Am I missing something? Comparing the payload capabilities of the Herc to the Osprey is like comparing a Jeep Wrangler to a F-150. The frog eaters aren't known to dismiss current capabilities without a good reason, and having a greater cabin size and payload capability, even on floats, must outweigh what the V-22 can bring.


You aren't missing anything. Whether or not this program actually happens and float capable C-130s occur is one thing.

The C-130 is in a totally different category. As you stated, we are comparing a Jeep Wrangler to a Ford F-150's capabilities here.
 
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Tugger
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:45 pm

Unless I am wrong, the final product will likely not be/look like the renders in the linked article. Those are just some AFSOC mock-ups no input from manufacturers. The mock-ups don't consider aerodynamic or real flight envelope impacts etc.

They are just a conversation starter/something to show the higherups.

Tugg
 
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STT757
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:48 pm

kitplane01 wrote:
CX747 wrote:
STT757 wrote:
I'm guessing the need is for moving larger pieces of equipment around Pacific Atolls, otherwise why not just try to squeeze more range out of V-22s.


You hit the nail on the head. A bigger load, further range and less complexity in the C-130. The ability to land that type of load, without a runway, adds a fantastic layer of complexity for our enemies in the East, or is it West? In the future, the fleet may all go in a tilt-rotor fashion but for the foreseeable future the C-130, in its many guises, is King Kong.


I'm trying to picture the mission. It cannot be anything clandestine, since the C-130 has the radar cross section of an ABBA concert with disco balls. It cannot be anyplace with a runway .. otherwise use a normal C130. Can you describe to me a sample mission??


I'm guessing islands without runways or where the runways were taken out in hostile action. Repair equipment could be flown in on the C-130 seaplane. You can also fly in to those islands air defense batteries and the new Naval Strike missiles the Marines are fielding.

https://www.kongsberg.com/kmagazine/2021/8/marines-use-ground-based-anti-ship-system-to-launch-naval-strike-missile-at-ship-in-navy-led-exercise/
 
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STT757
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:56 pm

STT757 wrote:
kitplane01 wrote:
CX747 wrote:

You hit the nail on the head. A bigger load, further range and less complexity in the C-130. The ability to land that type of load, without a runway, adds a fantastic layer of complexity for our enemies in the East, or is it West? In the future, the fleet may all go in a tilt-rotor fashion but for the foreseeable future the C-130, in its many guises, is King Kong.


I'm trying to picture the mission. It cannot be anything clandestine, since the C-130 has the radar cross section of an ABBA concert with disco balls. It cannot be anyplace with a runway .. otherwise use a normal C130. Can you describe to me a sample mission??


I'm guessing islands without runways or where the runways were taken out in hostile action. Repair equipment could be flown in on the C-130 seaplane. You can also fly in to those islands air defense batteries and the new Naval Strike missiles the Marines are fielding.

https://www.kongsberg.com/kmagazine/2021/8/marines-use-ground-based-anti-ship-system-to-launch-naval-strike-missile-at-ship-in-navy-led-exercise/

The other ability is to fly in Marine Light Attack aircraft , AH-1s, UH-1s, for Island hopping.

https://www.marines.mil/News/News-Display/Article/2717845/3rd-marine-aircraft-wing-trains-for-modern-island-hopping-campaign/
 
744SPX
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:37 am

CX747 wrote:
aumaverick wrote:
744SPX wrote:
Judging by the size and likely weight of those gargantuan pontoons and attachment frame, I'd bet the C-130J's cruise speed will be reduced by at least 100mph and payload/range to no more than the V-22's (and quite possibly less); essentially making it a V22 without VTOL capability and a tarmac footprint 3-4 times the size.

Now consider a stock C-130J costs the same as an MV-22 and will most definitely be more in this configuration.

Bad idea all the way around IMO. AFSOC would be FAR better served by more V-22's.


Am I missing something? Comparing the payload capabilities of the Herc to the Osprey is like comparing a Jeep Wrangler to a F-150. The frog eaters aren't known to dismiss current capabilities without a good reason, and having a greater cabin size and payload capability, even on floats, must outweigh what the V-22 can bring.


You aren't missing anything. Whether or not this program actually happens and float capable C-130s occur is one thing.

The C-130 is in a totally different category. As you stated, we are comparing a Jeep Wrangler to a Ford F-150's capabilities here.


Without the floats, of course the C-130 is in a totally different category. With the floats, I'm estimating its not.

C-130J max payload is 42,000 lbs MINUS ~20,000 lbs for the float rig, structural strengthening, and saltwater mods; and minus ~30% on range from the extra drag and weight
V-22 max payload is 20,000 lbs
 
AngMoh
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:20 am

This thing reminds me of a colleague I worked with and he was working for GM/Hughes Electronics in Santa Barbara (same guys who build the moon buggy) during the Reagan years. He told me that was the best time of his life. Any funding proposal with the words "Star Wars" in it was funded. They could do anything they wanted. They just added some nonsense of how it would support "Star Wars" and they got money for it. Almost nothing worked but every failure was followed up with how they learned from it and the new idea would really be useful to the Star Wars program, but they had a great time blow stuff up.

It seems that any proposal with the word "China" in it fits in the same bucket.

I really can not see how you effectively load and unload a C130 with 2 submarines bolted to it.
 
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Devilfish
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:22 pm

AngMoh wrote:
They just added some nonsense of how it would support "Star Wars" and they got money for it. Almost nothing worked but every failure was followed up with how they learned from it and the new idea would really be useful to the Star Wars program, but they had a great time blow stuff up.

:ghost: I suppose a laser-toting Ghostrider qualifies? :scared:

Image
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ee/92/de/ee92 ... 858863.jpg


https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-wing ... 29.article
 
aumaverick
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Fri Oct 08, 2021 8:56 pm

YES! Frickin Lasers on the Hercs! Now witness the firepower of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL battle stat...I mean aircraft!

Image
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:16 pm

744SPX wrote:
Judging by the size and likely weight of those gargantuan pontoons and attachment frame, I'd bet the C-130J's cruise speed will be reduced by at least 100mph and payload/range to no more than the V-22's (and quite possibly less); essentially making it a V22 without VTOL capability and a tarmac footprint 3-4 times the size.

Now consider a stock C-130J costs the same as an MV-22 and will most definitely be more in this configuration.

Bad idea all the way around IMO. AFSOC would be FAR better served by more V-22's.

You just made a great case for a C17 with floats. ;) :stirthepot:
 
boacvc10
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:33 am

If amphibious ops is required would it not be better if the fuselage of a C-130 was equipped with an inflatable skirt and turbine power diverted through a power take off unit to inflate the skirt by a few inches for hovercraft/lcac style water ops? A set of streamlined nose and mains Inflatable skirts could be used as subs for fixed landing gear and fixed floats during landing in water and takeoff from water. After lift off the could easily be deflated and retracted to stowed positions. I think there have been huge hovercrafts in the past for both civil and military applications.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:21 am

boacvc10 wrote:
better if the fuselage of a C-130 was equipped with an inflatable skirt and turbine power diverted through a power take off unit to inflate the skirt by a few inches for hovercraft/lcac style water ops?


You are trading weight for complexity. Might be worth it, but someone will have to go through the design/trade, failure rate of fans, maintenance etc.

bt
 
zanl188
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:26 pm

bikerthai wrote:
boacvc10 wrote:
better if the fuselage of a C-130 was equipped with an inflatable skirt and turbine power diverted through a power take off unit to inflate the skirt by a few inches for hovercraft/lcac style water ops?


You are trading weight for complexity. Might be worth it, but someone will have to go through the design/trade, failure rate of fans, maintenance etc.

bt


Would need tip floats or some sort of out rigger regardless.
 
 
boacvc10
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Re: It Looks Like A C-130 Seaplane Is Finally Happening

Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:04 pm

bikerthai wrote:


Wow, glad to see the historical projects.

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