Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
TripleDelta wrote:80 examples for the UAE following closely on the heels of 12 (albeit used) for Croatia and 12 (also used) for Greece; so it appears that the Rafale's sales fortunes can be summed up as "nothing... nothing... nothing... and then everything"
TripleDelta wrote:80 examples for the UAE following closely on the heels of 12 (albeit used) for Croatia and 12 (also used) for Greece; so it appears that the Rafale's sales fortunes can be summed up as "nothing... nothing... nothing... and then everything"
ITMercure wrote:What about Egypt, Qatar, India, Indonesia (and of course, France)? 'Nothing'?
ITMercure wrote:(and of course, France)
Alsatian wrote:He was probably referring to the orders of this year only. And indeed, as the Egyptian deal was signed in 2015, it took many times for the Rafale to win its first international agreement.
Francoflier wrote:Fighters tend to have long shelf lives and it's not rare to see their associated sales campaigns go on for decades as long as they can reasonably keep up with technological demand through upgrades.
The most famous and perennial example of this being the F-16.
Rafale has probably seen it's initial development and production line costs mostly amortized. Dassault is probably now in a position to ask for a more competitive price.
The platform itself has been updated and, crucially, is combat-proven.
It's good to see the program coming into its own and see this pretty little airplane find new customers. One of the most photogenic fighter out there for sure.
It's also reflects fairly well on Dassault that many customers seem to remain quite loyal over the years.
(Yes, I know that there's also a large political component to weapon sales...)
In any case, congrats to Dassault and the UAE AF.
Newark727 wrote:Seems like a lot of jets. How many fighters does the UAE have now? How big have their previous military orders been?
kitplane01 wrote:No deliveries until 2027! It's currently still 2021.
They offer a shot in the arm for France’s defense industry after the collapse of a $66 billion contract for Australia to buy 12 French submarines that ultimately went to the U.S.
It also announced a deal with the UAE to sell 12 Airbus-built combat helicopters.
bajs11 wrote:Compensation from who? For what?Will the UAE actually order F-35 or is this a compensation for the AUUKUS?
https://www.defensenews.com/global/mide ... -with-uae/They offer a shot in the arm for France’s defense industry after the collapse of a $66 billion contract for Australia to buy 12 French submarines that ultimately went to the U.S.
Dutchy wrote:Newark727 wrote:Seems like a lot of jets. How many fighters does the UAE have now? How big have their previous military orders been?
wikipedia
20x AT-802
59x Mirage 2000-9/EAD/RAD
78x F-16 E/F block 60 Fighting Falcon
This order seems to be a natural Mirage 2000 replacement order. 80 is not that massive. A fighter fleet of around 160 fighters a/c with a population of around 10million.
kitplane01 wrote:Does anyone know ... is the F-35 available to the UAE? I thought that it was as a result of diplomacy between the US and the UAE.
Francoflier wrote:kitplane01 wrote:Does anyone know ... is the F-35 available to the UAE? I thought that it was as a result of diplomacy between the US and the UAE.
The UAE has a standing agreement with the US to buy 50 F-35s (+drones). This Rafale deal appears to be in addition to that. The problem being that congress hasn't approved the sale yet and as the article that the OP linked says, this deal might also serve as a hint to the US that the UAE may be losing patience...
Dutchy wrote:Francoflier wrote:kitplane01 wrote:Does anyone know ... is the F-35 available to the UAE? I thought that it was as a result of diplomacy between the US and the UAE.
The UAE has a standing agreement with the US to buy 50 F-35s (+drones). This Rafale deal appears to be in addition to that. The problem being that congress hasn't approved the sale yet and as the article that the OP linked says, this deal might also serve as a hint to the US that the UAE may be losing patience...
I think that the UAE wants to have two independent sources for military a/c, these 50 F-35's would be a natural replacement for the F-16E/F.
kitplane01 wrote:Dutchy wrote:Francoflier wrote:
The UAE has a standing agreement with the US to buy 50 F-35s (+drones). This Rafale deal appears to be in addition to that. The problem being that congress hasn't approved the sale yet and as the article that the OP linked says, this deal might also serve as a hint to the US that the UAE may be losing patience...
I think that the UAE wants to have two independent sources for military a/c, these 50 F-35's would be a natural replacement for the F-16E/F.
Aviation Week and Space Tech notices that in the UAE operations in Libya and Yemen, they only used the Mirage and no F-16s. They opine that maybe the US has imposed formal or informal limitation on the use of American aircraft, and the Rafale buy is to keep a fleet of aircraft not limited by America.
LHAM wrote:Οn a clearly related development the UAE has suspended talks with US over purchase of F-35 fighter jets, a deal worth $23bn!
https://www.military.com/daily-news/202 ... al-us.html
Francoflier wrote:kitplane01 wrote:Does anyone know ... is the F-35 available to the UAE? I thought that it was as a result of diplomacy between the US and the UAE.
The UAE has a standing agreement with the US to buy 50 F-35s (+drones). This Rafale deal appears to be in addition to that. The problem being that congress hasn't approved the sale yet and as the article that the OP linked says, this deal might also serve as a hint to the US that the UAE may be losing patience...
trex8 wrote:The US administration is dragging its feet signing the is and dotting the ts on the sale.
scbriml wrote:trex8 wrote:The US administration is dragging its feet signing the is and dotting the ts on the sale.
Maybe that's the problem? If they dotted the is and crossed the ts instead, things would move along!