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889091
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Malaysian RMAF to Acquire 33 ex Kuwaiti AF F/A-18

Thu Dec 23, 2021 11:15 pm

From Malaysia's official news agency, Bernama:

https://www.bernama.com/en/crime_courts ... id=2036457

Hot and sandy desert operations in Kuwait to hot and humid conditions in Malaysia. Will premature corrosion be a potential problem?
 
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GCT64
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Re: Malaysian RMAF to Acquire 33 ex Kuwaiti AF F/A-18

Fri Dec 24, 2021 6:04 pm

Malaysia already has 8 X F-18Ds, the article talks about procurement of another 33 F-18C/Ds from Kuwait but they have 31 F-18Cs and 8 F-18Ds I believe (1 less than supplied (that one crashed) and from which total a number of Cs and Ds are withdrawn (are these in storage or scrapped or stripped for parts?)).
 
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GCT64
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Re: Malaysian RMAF to Acquire 33 ex Kuwaiti AF F/A-18

Fri Dec 24, 2021 6:06 pm

889091 wrote:
Hot and sandy desert operations in Kuwait to hot and humid conditions in Malaysia. Will premature corrosion be a potential problem?


About a year ago The Drive said "Of all the ‘legacy’ Hornets, the surviving Kuwaiti F/A-18C/Ds are among those in the best condition, and in the past, both Canada and Malaysia have expressed interest in buying them."
 
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N328KF
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Re: Malaysian RMAF to Acquire 33 ex Kuwaiti AF F/A-18

Fri Dec 24, 2021 6:43 pm

GCT64 wrote:
Malaysia already has 8 X F-18Ds, the article talks about procurement of another 33 F-18C/Ds from Kuwait but they have 31 F-18Cs and 8 F-18Ds I believe (1 less than supplied (that one crashed) and from which total a number of Cs and Ds are withdrawn (are these in storage or scrapped or stripped for parts?)).


How did they wind up with a a fleet of just 8 D models? And what happened to all of the MiG-29s that they still had as of 2017?
 
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GCT64
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Re: Malaysian RMAF to Acquire 33 ex Kuwaiti AF F/A-18

Fri Dec 24, 2021 6:55 pm

The Kuwaitis have denied the sale reports: https://www.kuna.net.kw/ArticleDetails. ... anguage=en
 
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GCT64
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Re: Malaysian RMAF to Acquire 33 ex Kuwaiti AF F/A-18

Fri Dec 24, 2021 6:59 pm

N328KF wrote:
How did they wind up with a a fleet of just 8 D models? And what happened to all of the MiG-29s that they still had as of 2017?


8 x F-18Ds is all they ever bought directly
The Mig-29s are withdrawn from use, believed to be stored at Kuantan
 
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N328KF
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Re: Malaysian RMAF to Acquire 33 ex Kuwaiti AF F/A-18

Fri Dec 24, 2021 7:01 pm

GCT64 wrote:
N328KF wrote:
How did they wind up with a a fleet of just 8 D models? And what happened to all of the MiG-29s that they still had as of 2017?


8 x F-18Ds is all they ever bought directly
The Mig-29s are withdrawn from use, believed to be stored at Kuantan


Understood, but why the small fleet?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Malaysian RMAF to Acquire 33 ex Kuwaiti AF F/A-18

Fri Dec 24, 2021 7:14 pm

budget reasons?
 
ThePointblank
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Re: Malaysian RMAF to Acquire 33 ex Kuwaiti AF F/A-18

Fri Dec 24, 2021 8:16 pm

GCT64 wrote:
889091 wrote:
Hot and sandy desert operations in Kuwait to hot and humid conditions in Malaysia. Will premature corrosion be a potential problem?


About a year ago The Drive said "Of all the ‘legacy’ Hornets, the surviving Kuwaiti F/A-18C/Ds are among those in the best condition, and in the past, both Canada and Malaysia have expressed interest in buying them."

I once chatted with someone who once looked over the Kuwaiti Hornets for Canada, and they were not impressed with the condition of the Kuwaiti jets. Something about their jets being in worse shape than their age in years actually implies.
 
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SeamanBeaumont
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Re: Malaysian RMAF to Acquire 33 ex Kuwaiti AF F/A-18

Fri Dec 24, 2021 10:52 pm

N328KF wrote:
GCT64 wrote:
N328KF wrote:
How did they wind up with a a fleet of just 8 D models? And what happened to all of the MiG-29s that they still had as of 2017?


8 x F-18Ds is all they ever bought directly
The Mig-29s are withdrawn from use, believed to be stored at Kuantan


Understood, but why the small fleet?

Mid 90s acquisition. Malaysia balanced the post cold war line by buying both Mig-29 and little bug. Think the contract cost was the same for the two fleets even though more 29s. 29s are long gone, those jets were run ragged with doing BFM from visiting US and Aussie units amongst others all keen to fight soviet era aircraft.

A good purchase for Malaysia, the little bugs have been good for them and delays their need to get a new aircraft by at least 10 years.
 
checksixx
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Re: Malaysian RMAF to Acquire 33 ex Kuwaiti AF F/A-18

Sun Dec 26, 2021 8:14 pm

ThePointblank wrote:
GCT64 wrote:
889091 wrote:
Hot and sandy desert operations in Kuwait to hot and humid conditions in Malaysia. Will premature corrosion be a potential problem?


About a year ago The Drive said "Of all the ‘legacy’ Hornets, the surviving Kuwaiti F/A-18C/Ds are among those in the best condition, and in the past, both Canada and Malaysia have expressed interest in buying them."

I once chatted with someone who once looked over the Kuwaiti Hornets for Canada, and they were not impressed with the condition of the Kuwaiti jets. Something about their jets being in worse shape than their age in years actually implies.


The Kuwaiti jets were kept outside for the majority of the time they've had them. I'd be shocked if anyone actually wanted them...
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Malaysian RMAF to Acquire 33 ex Kuwaiti AF F/A-18

Mon Dec 27, 2021 7:23 am

N328KF wrote:
GCT64 wrote:
Malaysia already has 8 X F-18Ds, the article talks about procurement of another 33 F-18C/Ds from Kuwait but they have 31 F-18Cs and 8 F-18Ds I believe (1 less than supplied (that one crashed) and from which total a number of Cs and Ds are withdrawn (are these in storage or scrapped or stripped for parts?)).


How did they wind up with a a fleet of just 8 D models? And what happened to all of the MiG-29s that they still had as of 2017?


The Asian financial crisis put paid to any more acquisitions, thanks to the depriciated Malaysian Ringgit.
 
texl1649
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Re: Malaysian RMAF to Acquire 33 ex Kuwaiti AF F/A-18

Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:47 pm

checksixx wrote:
ThePointblank wrote:
GCT64 wrote:

About a year ago The Drive said "Of all the ‘legacy’ Hornets, the surviving Kuwaiti F/A-18C/Ds are among those in the best condition, and in the past, both Canada and Malaysia have expressed interest in buying them."

I once chatted with someone who once looked over the Kuwaiti Hornets for Canada, and they were not impressed with the condition of the Kuwaiti jets. Something about their jets being in worse shape than their age in years actually implies.


The Kuwaiti jets were kept outside for the majority of the time they've had them. I'd be shocked if anyone actually wanted them...


Amazing that the Kuwaiti’s wouldn’t shell out the dough for some AC’d shelters for their fleet(s) of $70+ million aircraft. Wow.

That’s not common for Qatar/Saudi/UAE, is it?
 
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GCT64
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Re: Malaysian RMAF to Acquire 33 ex Kuwaiti AF F/A-18

Mon Dec 27, 2021 1:00 pm

texl1649 wrote:
checksixx wrote:
ThePointblank wrote:
I once chatted with someone who once looked over the Kuwaiti Hornets for Canada, and they were not impressed with the condition of the Kuwaiti jets. Something about their jets being in worse shape than their age in years actually implies.


The Kuwaiti jets were kept outside for the majority of the time they've had them. I'd be shocked if anyone actually wanted them...


Amazing that the Kuwaiti’s wouldn’t shell out the dough for some AC’d shelters for their fleet(s) of $70+ million aircraft. Wow.

That’s not common for Qatar/Saudi/UAE, is it?


They are operated from Ahmad al-Jaber Air Base where, if you look at satellite imagery, you can that the few HAS's are still damaged from GW I bombing in 1990. There are, however, plenty of sun shelters on the ramp for all the F-18s as well as large, presumably environmentally controlled, hangars. The hangars look to be able to house all the F-18s if required.
 
tomcat
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Re: Malaysian RMAF to Acquire 33 ex Kuwaiti AF F/A-18

Mon Dec 27, 2021 5:11 pm

It seems that the China military expansion in the South China sea is triggering an arms race in the region.

The desire to boost Malaysia’s air defenses have added impetus with the widely publicized flight of 16 Chinese transport aircraft over a disputed South China Sea shoal in late May. The Chinese jets approached to within 60 miles of Malaysia’s coast and prompted the RMAF to scramble Hawks in response.


https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia-pacific/2021/12/23/malaysia-keen-on-buying-kuwaits-hornet-fighter-jets/
 
ThePointblank
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Re: Malaysian RMAF to Acquire 33 ex Kuwaiti AF F/A-18

Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:46 pm

GCT64 wrote:
texl1649 wrote:
checksixx wrote:

The Kuwaiti jets were kept outside for the majority of the time they've had them. I'd be shocked if anyone actually wanted them...


Amazing that the Kuwaiti’s wouldn’t shell out the dough for some AC’d shelters for their fleet(s) of $70+ million aircraft. Wow.

That’s not common for Qatar/Saudi/UAE, is it?


They are operated from Ahmad al-Jaber Air Base where, if you look at satellite imagery, you can that the few HAS's are still damaged from GW I bombing in 1990. There are, however, plenty of sun shelters on the ramp for all the F-18s as well as large, presumably environmentally controlled, hangars. The hangars look to be able to house all the F-18s if required.

Not to mention the sand that happens to get everywhere, including the engines, and the fact that the Kuwaiti birds have not gone through a structural life extension.
 
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SeamanBeaumont
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Re: Malaysian RMAF to Acquire 33 ex Kuwaiti AF F/A-18

Tue Dec 28, 2021 5:14 am

ThePointblank wrote:
GCT64 wrote:
texl1649 wrote:

Amazing that the Kuwaiti’s wouldn’t shell out the dough for some AC’d shelters for their fleet(s) of $70+ million aircraft. Wow.

That’s not common for Qatar/Saudi/UAE, is it?


They are operated from Ahmad al-Jaber Air Base where, if you look at satellite imagery, you can that the few HAS's are still damaged from GW I bombing in 1990. There are, however, plenty of sun shelters on the ramp for all the F-18s as well as large, presumably environmentally controlled, hangars. The hangars look to be able to house all the F-18s if required.

Not to mention the sand that happens to get everywhere, including the engines, and the fact that the Kuwaiti birds have not gone through a structural life extension.

Do they need a SLEP... I doubt the Kuwaitis have flown them as much as comparable little bugs in other places, or to as much consistent G.

This is Malaysian Air Force we are taking about, they are used to equipment that doesn't work all the time and in need of repair. If they got 33 bugs from Kuwait and had 16 additional flyable aircraft plus spares I'd call that a win for them.
 
ThePointblank
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Re: Malaysian RMAF to Acquire 33 ex Kuwaiti AF F/A-18

Tue Dec 28, 2021 5:29 am

SeamanBeaumont wrote:
ThePointblank wrote:
GCT64 wrote:

They are operated from Ahmad al-Jaber Air Base where, if you look at satellite imagery, you can that the few HAS's are still damaged from GW I bombing in 1990. There are, however, plenty of sun shelters on the ramp for all the F-18s as well as large, presumably environmentally controlled, hangars. The hangars look to be able to house all the F-18s if required.

Not to mention the sand that happens to get everywhere, including the engines, and the fact that the Kuwaiti birds have not gone through a structural life extension.

Do they need a SLEP... I doubt the Kuwaitis have flown them as much as comparable little bugs in other places, or to as much consistent G.

This is Malaysian Air Force we are taking about, they are used to equipment that doesn't work all the time and in need of repair. If they got 33 bugs from Kuwait and had 16 additional flyable aircraft plus spares I'd call that a win for them.

The Hornet has a structural life limit of 6,000 hours, which relatively low for a fighter jet. The main issue is the centre barrel; while the rest of the airframe can fly longer, the centre barrel tends to delaminate and show stress fractures fairly early in life because it is a high stress component where the wings, tail, main landing gear and front fuselage all meet up.

With a centre barrel replacement, the Hornet can add an additional 2,000 hours of life, and with inspections, you can push a Hornet out to 10,000 hours of life. However, the centre barrel replacement isn't cheap; the US Navy says to do a centre barrel replacement at one of their fleet readiness depots is about $2-3 million dollars per aircraft.
 
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SeamanBeaumont
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Re: Malaysian RMAF to Acquire 33 ex Kuwaiti AF F/A-18

Tue Dec 28, 2021 9:28 am

ThePointblank wrote:
SeamanBeaumont wrote:
ThePointblank wrote:
Not to mention the sand that happens to get everywhere, including the engines, and the fact that the Kuwaiti birds have not gone through a structural life extension.

Do they need a SLEP... I doubt the Kuwaitis have flown them as much as comparable little bugs in other places, or to as much consistent G.

This is Malaysian Air Force we are taking about, they are used to equipment that doesn't work all the time and in need of repair. If they got 33 bugs from Kuwait and had 16 additional flyable aircraft plus spares I'd call that a win for them.

The Hornet has a structural life limit of 6,000 hours, which relatively low for a fighter jet. The main issue is the centre barrel; while the rest of the airframe can fly longer, the centre barrel tends to delaminate and show stress fractures fairly early in life because it is a high stress component where the wings, tail, main landing gear and front fuselage all meet up.

With a centre barrel replacement, the Hornet can add an additional 2,000 hours of life, and with inspections, you can push a Hornet out to 10,000 hours of life. However, the centre barrel replacement isn't cheap; the US Navy says to do a centre barrel replacement at one of their fleet readiness depots is about $2-3 million dollars per aircraft.

I know that dude, question again... Do they need a SLEP...?

How many hours do the jets have on average? The Aussies only centre barrelled 15 out of their 70+ fleet so not every one has to have it and the Malays don't exactly rack up the hours.
 
ThePointblank
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Re: Malaysian RMAF to Acquire 33 ex Kuwaiti AF F/A-18

Tue Dec 28, 2021 12:07 pm

SeamanBeaumont wrote:
ThePointblank wrote:
SeamanBeaumont wrote:
Do they need a SLEP... I doubt the Kuwaitis have flown them as much as comparable little bugs in other places, or to as much consistent G.

This is Malaysian Air Force we are taking about, they are used to equipment that doesn't work all the time and in need of repair. If they got 33 bugs from Kuwait and had 16 additional flyable aircraft plus spares I'd call that a win for them.

The Hornet has a structural life limit of 6,000 hours, which relatively low for a fighter jet. The main issue is the centre barrel; while the rest of the airframe can fly longer, the centre barrel tends to delaminate and show stress fractures fairly early in life because it is a high stress component where the wings, tail, main landing gear and front fuselage all meet up.

With a centre barrel replacement, the Hornet can add an additional 2,000 hours of life, and with inspections, you can push a Hornet out to 10,000 hours of life. However, the centre barrel replacement isn't cheap; the US Navy says to do a centre barrel replacement at one of their fleet readiness depots is about $2-3 million dollars per aircraft.

I know that dude, question again... Do they need a SLEP...?

How many hours do the jets have on average? The Aussies only centre barrelled 15 out of their 70+ fleet so not every one has to have it and the Malays don't exactly rack up the hours.

My understanding from my sources is that the Kuwaiti jets are in far worse shape than their age and flight hours suggest; hence one of the reasons why they got passed over by Canada. Something about the way they were maintained and operated made then less than ideal from an airframe life perspective.

The Aussies only did centre barrel replacements for a portion of their fleet, and only for the worst offenders that needed it; the bigger issue the Australians had to deal with was corrosion, not fatigue. On top of that, the Aussies were starting to phase out the Hornets, so a life extension program on their aircraft really didn't make sense.
 
889091
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Re: Malaysian RMAF to Acquire 33 ex Kuwaiti AF F/A-18

Wed Dec 29, 2021 11:21 am

Assuming that the RMAF is targeting the F-18 for commonality with its existing fleet of 8 F-18D what other 'second-hand' options does it have besides the Kuwaiti jets?

Swiss AF? Ozair mentioned sometime ago that those airframes are basically toast due to BCM by the Swiss AF.
Spanish AF F-18? https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1466591
 
889091
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Re: Malaysian RMAF to Acquire 33 ex Kuwaiti AF F/A-18

Mon Jan 31, 2022 6:23 pm

Apparently RMAF is out, USMC is in.

Considering what has been discussed so far (tired frames for its age), it's a little surprising.

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/usmc-al ... -fighters/
 
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N328KF
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Re: Malaysian RMAF to Acquire 33 ex Kuwaiti AF F/A-18

Mon Jan 31, 2022 6:27 pm

889091 wrote:
Apparently RMAF is out, USMC is in.

Considering what has been discussed so far (tired frames for its age), it's a little surprising.

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/usmc-al ... -fighters/


What exactly does the USMC want with these tired old birds?
 
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SeamanBeaumont
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Re: Malaysian RMAF to Acquire 33 ex Kuwaiti AF F/A-18

Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:12 pm

N328KF wrote:
889091 wrote:
Apparently RMAF is out, USMC is in.

Considering what has been discussed so far (tired frames for its age), it's a little surprising.

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/usmc-al ... -fighters/


What exactly does the USMC want with these tired old birds?

USMC are still flying little bug until about 2030 so more spares for their fleet same way they grabbed the UK harriers.

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