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bajs11
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:10 am

Avatar2go wrote:
As others have noted, the advantages of the P-8 are lower operational and sustainment costs, at the expense of lesser offensive capabilities and low-altitude performance.


Is the P-1 able to fire long range anti-ship missiles like the AGM-158C?

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... -p-8a-mpa/
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:26 am

bajs11 wrote:
Is the P-1 able to fire long range anti-ship missiles like the AGM-158C?


Probably, but will require money to integrate.

As mentioned, the advantage to the P-8A is not necessarily the performance of the frame. It is the purchasing power if the US NAVY and the constant upgrade in capabilities 30-40 years into the future. Just like the P-3C whose frame is tired, but the upgrades by the USN kept it relevant for so many years.

bt
 
Avatar2go
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:27 am

bajs11 wrote:
Avatar2go wrote:
As others have noted, the advantages of the P-8 are lower operational and sustainment costs, at the expense of lesser offensive capabilities and low-altitude performance.


Is the P-1 able to fire long range anti-ship missiles like the AGM-158C?

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... -p-8a-mpa/


Not sure if the P-1 can be retrofitted for the newer and longer range missile. It's designed to engage and operate from lower altitudes, where its weapons array is effective, and more numerous than the P-8.

I wasn't trying to imply superiority of one over the other. Rather to highlight their different philosophies. The US decided to move from primarily low to high altitude activity with the P-8, which changed their strategy and tactics. The Japanese decided to stay with the existing primarily lower altitude activities, and developed a dedicated platform for that in the P-1.

Both have strengths and weaknesses relative to the other. Fortunately we are allies so both can be brought to bear against the China threat.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:36 am

Avatar2go wrote:
Not sure if the P-1 can be retrofitted for the newer and longer range missile.


It should be able to if it can handle Harpoons. The interface should be the same, its just a matter of upgrading the software to the stores management system (or at most replacing the SMS computer) and go through the gauntlet of drop and live fire tests.

bt
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:39 am

Avatar2go wrote:
It's designed to engage and operate from lower altitudes, where its weapons array is effective, and more numerous than the P-8.


For peace time it is fine. With the possibility of man portable AA missiles on fishing boats, during war time, staying low is kind of dangerous.

bt
 
bajs11
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:47 am

bikerthai wrote:
Avatar2go wrote:
Not sure if the P-1 can be retrofitted for the newer and longer range missile.


It should be able to if it can handle Harpoons. The interface should be the same, its just a matter of upgrading the software to the stores management system (or at most replacing the SMS computer) and go through the gauntlet of drop and live fire tests.

bt


pretty sure the Harpoon is quite a bit smaller than the LRASM
and of course it has a much shorter range like 100 (?) nm vs 500
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Tue Jun 07, 2022 12:14 pm

bajs11 wrote:
pretty sure the Harpoon is quite a bit smaller than the LRASM


You are right. The LRASM just meet the stores rating on the P-8A wing mount. Can't find data on the P-1.


bt
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Tue Jun 07, 2022 12:48 pm

Speaking of upgrades, perhaps these will be in the arsenal in the future for P-8s.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/w ... hip-in-two

The wing hard point should be able to handle the 2000 lb JDAMs.

bt
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:49 am

bikerthai wrote:

Is there an argument to say the P-1 has not won any foreign sales because of Japanese policy? Perhaps when thay policy is dropped, it will make it easier for foreign sales.

bt


IIRC The P-1 was considered by the NZ government in our recent decision to replace the P-3. The cost compared to the P-8 was likely just too much when the P-8 largely handled what we needed.

Now that doesn't mean countries shouldn't develop their own homegrown systems. It's just that they should explicitly acknowledge the extra cost for retaining that strategic independence.
 
744SPX
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:40 am

bajs11 wrote:

Got any numbers or analyses made by reputable military analysts?


I haven't seen any but in terms of platform aero performance, not only is the P-1 superior at low altitude and low speed due to its very low (95 lbs/sq. ft) wing loading, it is also faster and can fly significantly higher than the P-8. So it wins at high altitude as well. Plus you have 4 engine redundancy. The P-1 also has a superior thrust to weight ratio, all the more surprising as it is not subject to twin engine engine-out thrust requirements and already has low wing loading.

The P-8 has relatively high wing loading, on par with the 737-900 and is underpowered to boot. A dangerous combination for anything other than an aircraft that flies within very strict operating parameters (like a passenger aircraft)

...but yes, it is cheaper and more easily integrated with NATO forces
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:10 am

744SPX wrote:
Plus you have 4 engine redundancy.


That four engine redundancy is what you want when some Chinese hotshot deploys chaffs and flares in front of you!

Another difference is the P-8A is still using cables for controls where the P-1 is fly by light. Talk about opposite end of the spectrum.

bt
 
744SPX
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Thu Jun 09, 2022 1:27 am

bikerthai wrote:
744SPX wrote:
Plus you have 4 engine redundancy.


That four engine redundancy is what you want when some Chinese hotshot deploys chaffs and flares in front of you!

Another difference is the P-8A is still using cables for controls where the P-1 is fly by light. Talk about opposite end of the spectrum.

bt



Good points.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:40 am

It's probably in the previous thread, I was wondering what the takeoff performance is, what length of runway is required for a P-8 at maximum weight, it's not easy to find on the web, I've tried looking for it.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:39 am

Not sure the detailed performance of a P-8A would be available. However in general, it would have to meet the same engine out requirement at take off as any commercial 737.

They fly out of Whidbey NAS which has a runway of 8000 ft and Jax at 9000 ft, Sigonola at 8000 ft. So question would be if they are allowed to fly out of these at max weight?

bt
 
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STT757
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:52 pm

US Navy Reserve squadrons begin transition from P-3C to P-8s,

https://seapowermagazine.org/navy-air-reserve-begins-transition-to-p-8a-poseidon-aircraft

In addition the Navy will convert two existing active duty to Reserve squadrons, thus establishing four reserve squadrons in total:

https://seapowermagazine.org/navy-proposes-conversion-of-2-active-p-8-squadrons-to-reserve

I'm hoping that two of those four Reserve squadrons are laid down someplace other than Jacksonville and Whidbey Island; Joint Base MDL, NAS JRB New Orleans, NAS Point Mugu etc..
 
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par13del
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:38 pm

So is the switch to reserve basically to save money on the crews / support personnel but possibly also wear and tear on the equipment?
Would it create a situation as was seen years ago where the Reserves and National Guard were operating sub-standard equipment, my opinion is still that the reason why modern equipment started going to the guard was due to the fall in recruitment numbers, having the reserves operate the same equipment allowed them to be deployed like the regular military as it was much harder to keep them deployed beyond their time.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Thu Jun 16, 2022 1:29 pm

par13del wrote:
my opinion is still that the reason why modern equipment started going to the guard was due to the fall in recruitment numbers,


Everybody is having recruitment problems. In the private industry they could at least get foreign workers. Boeing is scouring the world for tech workers. The recent down turn in the tech industry will help with electrical engineers, but mechanical and aerospace engineers are harder to find. They are actively recruiting in Brazil, India ...

bt
 
ThePointblank
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:56 am

Chatter is that the RAF's service chiefs are expressing an interest in an additional 3 P-8's be procured to expand the fleet to 12:

https://www.thedefensepost.com/2022/06/ ... &fs=e&s=cl

And Boeing has partnered with CAE, KF Aerospace, IMP Defence, Honeywell Canada and Raytheon Canada to offer the P-8 to Canada under the Canadian Multi-Mission Aircraft requirement:

https://seapowermagazine.org/boeing-tea ... &fs=e&s=cl
 
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Daetrin
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:34 pm

bikerthai wrote:
par13del wrote:
my opinion is still that the reason why modern equipment started going to the guard was due to the fall in recruitment numbers,


Everybody is having recruitment problems. In the private industry they could at least get foreign workers. Boeing is scouring the world for tech workers. The recent down turn in the tech industry will help with electrical engineers, but mechanical and aerospace engineers are harder to find. They are actively recruiting in Brazil, India ...

bt


Boeing treats its tech workers very poorly, so I'm surprised that anyone is surprised that they are having trouble recruiting. Lots of politics, not the best pay, big pressure to outsource your job or move it to a lower cost of work location. Why work for the Boeing Borg when you can make more money with less fuss elsewhere.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:15 pm

Daetrin wrote:
Why work for the Boeing Borg when you can make more money with less fuss elsewhere.


A lot of truths. Boeing does pay less than others. Their health benefits, though not as generous as before, is still top notch.

Yes their work as not as exciting as say Space-X, but the company is big enough that if the drone don't line one place, they can always transfer to other locations or other fields. Good drones can basically go where ever they want. East-coaster? There's Philly. Left coaster? Huntington and Long Beach (engineering only, not much production), Tree huggers? Washington's the place to be. Sun and desert? MESA has the AH-64. Hearland? T-7 is still in Missouri.

For internationals, it is probably easier to get into Boeing than other aerospace companies.

bt
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Fri Jul 22, 2022 2:51 pm

First NZ aircraft out of paint hangar.

https://youtu.be/sgi0XDueXXM

bt
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Sat Jul 23, 2022 12:37 pm

bikerthai wrote:
First NZ aircraft out of paint hangar.

https://youtu.be/sgi0XDueXXM

bt


I find it ironic that the New Zealand Air Force uses a flightless bird in it's roundel.

Anyways, good looking aircraft. And absolutely necessary for a nation like New Zealand.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Sat Jul 23, 2022 3:44 pm

JetBuddy wrote:
bikerthai wrote:
First NZ aircraft out of paint hangar.

https://youtu.be/sgi0XDueXXM

bt


I find it ironic that the New Zealand Air Force uses a flightless bird in it's roundel.

Anyways, good looking aircraft. And absolutely necessary for a nation like New Zealand.


On the tail is the wandering albatross, that more than makes up for the kiwis lack of wings.
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Sat Jul 23, 2022 4:28 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
JetBuddy wrote:
bikerthai wrote:
First NZ aircraft out of paint hangar.

https://youtu.be/sgi0XDueXXM

bt


I find it ironic that the New Zealand Air Force uses a flightless bird in it's roundel.

Anyways, good looking aircraft. And absolutely necessary for a nation like New Zealand.


On the tail is the wandering albatross, that more than makes up for the kiwis lack of wings.


True! Impressive wingspan.
 
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Bhavyavelani
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Air Works Delivers 6th P-8I to Indian Navy

Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:47 pm

Air Works Group India’s Oldest and Largest Maintenance, Repair, and Overhaul (MROs) organization have delivered the 6th Boeing P-8I aircraft to Boeing and the Indian Navy.

Air Works Group carried out the 32 Phase Checks on Boeing P-8I maritime aircraft. The Heavy Maintenance checks are carried out at their world-class facility at Hosur, Tamil Nadu in India.

The News is Reported by Aviation A2z:- https://aviationa2z.com/index.php/2022/08/05/air-works-successfully-delivers-6th-boeing-p-8i-to-indian-navy-after-32-phase-checks-exclusive/

Image
 
angad84
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Re: Air Works Delivers 6th P-8I to Indian Navy

Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:12 pm

Bhavyavelani wrote:
Air Works Group India’s Oldest and Largest Maintenance, Repair, and Overhaul (MROs) organization have delivered the 6th Boeing P-8I aircraft to Boeing and the Indian Navy.

Air Works Group carried out the 32 Phase Checks on Boeing P-8I maritime aircraft. The Heavy Maintenance checks are carried out at their world-class facility at Hosur, Tamil Nadu in India.

The News is Reported by Aviation A2z:- https://aviationa2z.com/index.php/2022/08/05/air-works-successfully-delivers-6th-boeing-p-8i-to-indian-navy-after-32-phase-checks-exclusive/

Image

Few people will realise how significnat this is for Boeing, the IN and AirWorks. I'm a huge fan of how the P-8I is being managed in India, kudos to the Naval air wallahs and Boeing.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Fri Aug 19, 2022 6:53 pm

UK P-8A participate in its first rescue operation.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-62600186

Also NZ first P-8A flew for the first time.

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news ... rst-flight

bt
 
BobLoblah
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:37 pm

Did anyone catch the line number for MSN 67009 which first flew in Sept? 9411?
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Mon Oct 03, 2022 4:02 pm

9411 was a UN airframe that flew over the hill a few months back.

During the August September time frame, it could have been 9601-9603. These are either NZ (albatross on the rudder) or ROK big Ying/Yang roundel.

bt
 
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RobK
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:27 pm

BobLoblah wrote:
Did anyone catch the line number for MSN 67009 which first flew in Sept? 9411?


Bikerthai is the resident P8 "expert" so I'm sure he'll have all the details.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Boeing P-8 Po byseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:55 pm

RobK wrote:
Bikerthai is the resident P8 "expert" so I'm sure he'll have all the details.


Except i'm not familiar with the MSN, so no help there.
:?:
bt
 
BobLoblah
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 04, 2022 2:18 am

thanks everyone. Mostly what I know is that BOE126 flew RNT to BFI 9/6/22. The 126 bit seems to imply it us for the US Navy but frames have moved around in the past. I don't know the MSN for certain, line#, or customer, Boeing will let us know the latter on the 11th. They seem to be skipping around a bit recently for some reason.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 04, 2022 2:33 am

If it was Boe126 then it is as you said, USN airframe. I believe you may have the line number correct as well. And yes there is something going on with line numbers. It will be obvious sometime in the near future.

bt
 
bhxdtw
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 04, 2022 4:35 pm

Hi guys, thought I'd post this as it just went overhead and looking at the route it raised some questions.

Why would a P8 leave Florida, fly all the way to Saginaw Michigan, go around a few times, then go home? Maybe some kind of testing? A show?

https://fr24.com/2db64db3
 
eskimotail
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Wed Oct 05, 2022 1:10 am

Called Airways Trainer
Military Pilots and crews that have spent or are going to spend 95 percent of their flying time staying away from continental boundaries need to cement for future or regain missing recency of experience mixing it up in the ATC IFR environment. Pilot upgrades and foreign pilots need same real world exposure. Pick a spot, fly there and back, probably some bodies home town.
 
bhxdtw
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Wed Oct 05, 2022 2:52 am

eskimotail wrote:
Called Airways Trainer
Military Pilots and crews that have spent or are going to spend 95 percent of their flying time staying away from continental boundaries need to cement for future or regain missing recency of experience mixing it up in the ATC IFR environment. Pilot upgrades and foreign pilots need same real world exposure. Pick a spot, fly there and back, probably some bodies home town.


Interesting... I love stuff like this. Understanding stuff that seems out of place but have legit reasons for.
 
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afterburner33
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Thu Oct 20, 2022 8:16 pm

Have their been two RNZAF P-8s that have flown, or has someone got their numbers wrong?

The Planespotters 737 production list shows two RNZAF P-8s on order: https://www.planespotters.net/productio ... /737?p=221

NZ4801 / N786DS
NZ4802 / N788DS

The YouTube video above shows the rollout from the paint shop of NZ4801. However, the Planespotters site has an image of N788DS taking flight:

https://www.planespotters.net/photo/132 ... on-737-800

So, either NZ4801 hasn't flown yet, or there's a serial number mixup somewhere, or both have actually flown?
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Thu Oct 20, 2022 8:58 pm

Looks like both have been flown. They are rolling these frames out at a rate of 1 per month, so the first NZ flight would have been a month prior.

bt
 
mxaxai
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Re: Boeing P-8 Poseidon News, Production and Delivery Thread - 2022

Fri Oct 28, 2022 6:58 pm

Noray wrote:
Once more: The official German plan doesn't mention any number or type of aircraft, it just says "Procurement of more maritime patrol aircraft". "7 more P-8A" is a rumour that has been quoted by Defensenews, but denied by a German government spokesperson. It may be the idea of the naval leadership, but the decision rests with Parliament and the government.

Only 3 additional P-8 are now in the budget rather than the initially reported 7 (for a total fleet of now 8 rather than 12).

https://augengeradeaus.net/2022/10/nach ... vermoegen/ [German]

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