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kitplane01
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

Sat Jun 18, 2022 6:57 pm

kitplane01 wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
I can't fathom how anyone would find this unfair unless the underlying conviction is that businesses should be allowed to do as they please with the environment with no interference from the community they operate in and profit from.


I didn't say it was unfair. I said it was ineffecient. You can tell because I didn't write "it's unfair". Instead I wrote "it's ineffecient". Right in the part you qouted.

Having the military decide the right amount that a space company ought to contribute to the local loan-out-fishing-poles-fund is just not correct. The previous sentence is super-obvious.

Also, at no point did I write that SpaceX should not pay for enviornmental damages. I'm arguing the correct part of the government to analyze the very complex calculations involved might be something like the EPA and not the DOD. And how the money should be spend might be decided by local governments or the EPA, but not the DOD.

In fact, none of the people you quoted wrote "hey SpaceX should trash the enviornment and pay no costs".

Wikipedia: A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, whereas the real subject of the argument was not addressed or refuted, but instead replaced with a false one.


This is maybe more snarky than needed. Sorry.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

Sun Jun 19, 2022 3:39 pm

bikerthai wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
A lot of that sounds like extortion.


It is environmental mitigation. It is something all project face. This is even more stringent in Europe (see the Gigafactory in Germany).

The historical preservation part is kind out there, but Texan are proud of their history :lol:

I'm surprised native burial sites consideration is not in there.

bt


I believe in the Indian Wars, mostly with the Comanches Texas killed or expelled all of their Indian tribes. And I believe they and the US government agreed there would be no reservations in Texas. It is one of the utterly fascinating epics in American history. The Comanches came into their own after acquiring horses. Neighboring tribes and Mexicans in New Mexico would agree with Texans that they were terrorized. The story could be said to make The Northman relatively tame.

ps There are great histories of this.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:45 pm

kitplane01 wrote:

I didn't say it was unfair. I said it was ineffecient. You can tell because I didn't write "it's unfair". Instead I wrote "it's ineffecient". Right in the part you qouted.

Having the military decide the right amount that a space company ought to contribute to the local loan-out-fishing-poles-fund is just not correct. The previous sentence is super-obvious.

Also, at no point did I write that SpaceX should not pay for enviornmental damages. I'm arguing the correct part of the government to analyze the very complex calculations involved might be something like the EPA and not the DOD. And how the money should be spend might be decided by local governments or the EPA, but not the DOD.

In fact, none of the people you quoted wrote "hey SpaceX should trash the enviornment and pay no costs".

Wikipedia: A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, whereas the real subject of the argument was not addressed or refuted, but instead replaced with a false one.


But why would you consider it that inefficient?

The FAA is responsible for ensuring that space launch activities do not adversely affect the surrounding communities. The way they do this is by identifying who/what could be affected and then bring all those groups to the table with the 'offending' actor and get them them to agree on how the latter's activities could continue in a a way that would satisfy everyone. This is going to take time any which way you try to do it but I'm not sure how it could be done much more 'efficiently'.
 
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kitplane01
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

Mon Jun 20, 2022 4:16 am

Francoflier wrote:
kitplane01 wrote:

I didn't say it was unfair. I said it was ineffecient. You can tell because I didn't write "it's unfair". Instead I wrote "it's ineffecient". Right in the part you qouted.

Having the military decide the right amount that a space company ought to contribute to the local loan-out-fishing-poles-fund is just not correct. The previous sentence is super-obvious.

Also, at no point did I write that SpaceX should not pay for enviornmental damages. I'm arguing the correct part of the government to analyze the very complex calculations involved might be something like the EPA and not the DOD. And how the money should be spend might be decided by local governments or the EPA, but not the DOD.

In fact, none of the people you quoted wrote "hey SpaceX should trash the enviornment and pay no costs".

Wikipedia: A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, whereas the real subject of the argument was not addressed or refuted, but instead replaced with a false one.


But why would you consider it that inefficient?

The FAA is responsible for ensuring that space launch activities do not adversely affect the surrounding communities. The way they do this is by identifying who/what could be affected and then bring all those groups to the table with the 'offending' actor and get them them to agree on how the latter's activities could continue in a a way that would satisfy everyone. This is going to take time any which way you try to do it but I'm not sure how it could be done much more 'efficiently'.



I do not think that's true.

Lets suppose SpaceX was proposing to contaminate ground water. The FAA doesn't know anything about ground water. Meanwhile the EPA has lots of ground water knowledge. Or that SpaceX wants to endanger workers health. Again the FAA doesn't not have the relevant experts, but I bet OSHA does.

The FAA has a mission and a set of experts. None of them are involved in the local fishing-tackle-loan business.

I believe what you propose is that every local group go the the FAA, and get them to force SpaceX to agree to nuisance programs. The FAA has no incentive nor expertise to decide which makes sense so they just say yes to all of them, and then force them on SpaceX.

The $5000 for the fishing-pole-loan-program ... is that the best use of $5000? I dunno but I do know the FAA is not the people who should decide.
P.S. In earlier posts I wrote DoD. I should have written FAA.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

Mon Jun 20, 2022 4:40 am

So again, the FAA is charged with issuing the launch site permits and licenses. To do so requires an environmental review, as well as a period of commentary and public input. The FAA is mandated by law, to consider all those things and integrate them into their decision.

Although the FAA consults and considers input from other agencies, they do have their own inhouse expertise, enough to understand and make decisions on the issues. This is part of their airport planning division, and they've been doing it for decades. A spaceport is no different.

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/he ... l%20issues.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:51 pm

The Falcon Heavy launch for the Psyche mission in 2022, has been deferred until possibly 2023 or 2024, due to the lateness of delivered Psyche flight software and test environment. Insufficient time to complete software validation before launch. Reasons given were development delays due to COVID.
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:01 pm

spacelaunchnow.me writes:

"SpaceX will conduct a static fire test of the Super Heavy Booster 7 between 10 a.m. and 10 p.m. CDT (15:00 - 03:00 UTC) on June 27 (27-28 UTC)."


Right now, they're doing things at Boca Chica: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbBeoReu12E
 
Avatar2go
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

Tue Jun 28, 2022 1:33 am

flyingturtle wrote:
spacelaunchnow.me writes:

"SpaceX will conduct a static fire test of the Super Heavy Booster 7 between 10 a.m. and 10 p.m. CDT (15:00 - 03:00 UTC) on June 27 (27-28 UTC)."

Right now, they're doing things at Boca Chica: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbBeoReu12E


The booster hot-fire could happen anytime between now and Thursday. The indicator will be the overpressure notice sent out to local residents, such as Mary: https://twitter.com/BocaChicaGal
 
Avatar2go
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:57 pm

The CRS-25 mission to ISS has been delayed until July 14, due to the need to replace some Dragon capsule components that were exposed to the hydrazine leak. Parachutes also being replaced.
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:44 pm

Has the hot fire / static fire test happened yet?
 
Avatar2go
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:32 pm

No, there is still a lot of equipment surrounding the booster, and people working, so probably not close yet. They have another day and a half in their window. Can always declare another as well, since no hurry.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

Thu Jun 30, 2022 6:35 am

Word is that the static fire test won't be attempted this week. Crews still working on the booster.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

Sat Jul 09, 2022 7:42 am

SpaceX filed their flight plan for the first Starship space launch, with the FCC. They intend to do a trial of Starlink as their telemetry network, at the same time. Starlink receivers will be mounted on both Starship and Super Heavy.

The latest flight plan still calls for a suborbital flight, with the booster either doing a powered ocean landing in the Gulf of Mexico, or being caught by the launch tower. Starship will complete a partial orbit before a powered landing near Hawaii.

It's believed, but not confirmed, that Starship will do a trial Starlink release during this mission as well. Whether those are actual satellites or mass simulators, is also unknown.

No indication of the timeframe for the launch, but SpaceX would need to show progress on the FAA Boca Chica site requirements, as well as apply for a launch permit and license.

Also no word yet on the Starship and Super Heavy hot fire static tests, still scheduled for July.

https://apps.fcc.gov/els/GetAtt.html?id=301648&x=.
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

Sun Jul 10, 2022 10:15 am

The Everyday Astronaut did an astronaughty 41-minute interview with Mr. Musk - this time, about the Raptor 2 engine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7MQb9Y4FAE
 
Avatar2go
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

Sun Jul 10, 2022 7:11 pm

Interesting that in this video, Elon says that they have RUD'ed about 30 Raptors on the stand, and melted about 50 combustion chambers. But this is not a problem because of the high rate of Raptor production. If something doesn't work, they just build another.

One consequence of this is they are still RUD'ing engines as they approach first launch, about 6 in the last 3 months.

That's an interesting contrast to more traditional engine development, where an engine RUD on the stand is indicative of high risks remaining. As the Raptor begins flights in large numbers, we should be able see whether the high RUD rate translates to high risk of failure in flight.
 
zanl188
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

Mon Jul 11, 2022 1:51 am

Starlink 3-1 mission launched successfully this evening.
 
GDB
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

Mon Jul 11, 2022 4:46 pm

zanl188 wrote:
Starlink 3-1 mission launched successfully this evening.


Certainly foggy at Vandenberg;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c738Z_zQR0

The 7th saw another Starlink, with the second Lucky 13 booster recovery, a booster that first launched Crew Demo-2, 13 flights in just under 26 months.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_F ... oster_1058

Fastest turnaround being 27 days, between two Starlink missions last year.
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:06 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbBeoReu12E on this live stream, Starship booster did a pre-burner test at 16:20 CDT.

Testing is still ongoing.

Image
 
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:24 pm

flyingturtle wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbBeoReu12E on this live stream, Starship booster did a pre-burner test at 16:20 CDT.

Testing is still ongoing.

Image


That was actually more of a detonation. Reports are that they were dumping LOX and there was an ignition event of some kind. No static fires were scheduled for today. There were people on site, there is video of staff making a rapid exit.
 
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

Tue Jul 12, 2022 8:39 am

Update on the B7 explosive event. They were spin testing the turbopumps with both LNG and LOX, but without ignition, on multiple engines at once, to check cryogenic flow through the distribution manifolds. An ignition event occurred below the launch stand, that ignited the propellant mixture. Basically it was a BLEVE (Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapor Explosion), that also then ignited.

Tomorrow they will inspect the booster for possible damage. Elon says they will reduce the number of engines spin tested at once.
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:40 pm

I wonder what ignited it. Could be anything that causes a spark I guess.
 
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

Tue Jul 12, 2022 4:29 pm

JetBuddy wrote:
I wonder what ignited it. Could be anything that causes a spark I guess.


Yes, people today questioning how they could not have expected ignition. Possibly relying on cryogenic temperatures. Elon mentioned the mixture was fuel rich but atmospheric oxygen brought it back within combustion limits. Still seems a bit fringe.
 
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:39 pm

Looks like B7 is returning to the high bay for Raptor engine repair or replacement. Some new Raptors being delivered to the bay today.

We probably won't get a detailed assessment of the damage or cause of the accident, as we do from NASA on the Artemis program.
 
FlyBoy747
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

Mon Jul 18, 2022 8:20 pm

Ship 24 is currently doing a spin prime test (Monday, July 18 3:15ish PM CST). Hopefully all goes well...

NSF Live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjGLnqtbjvo
 
Avatar2go
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:58 pm

Looked like the test was successful today.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:09 pm

In B7 booster news, 7 Raptors have thus far been removed for inspection and/or repair/replacement, after the mixture detonation event beneath the engines.
 
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casinterest
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

Wed Jul 20, 2022 1:41 pm

Avatar2go wrote:
In B7 booster news, 7 Raptors have thus far been removed for inspection and/or repair/replacement, after the mixture detonation event beneath the engines.

Have to imagine a lot of wires were crisped, and a lot of items were detached from their static assembly by the heat and force of that blast.

Going to need to repair quite a bit to figure it all out.
 
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ssteve
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

Wed Jul 20, 2022 6:34 pm

Yesterday I learned... Shuttle used "sparklers" to intentionally burn off hydrogen that might accumulate below the SSMEs
https://space.stackexchange.com/questio ... -of-launch

I recalled those sparks-- never realized their purpose.
 
Avatar2go
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Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

Wed Jul 20, 2022 8:51 pm

    ssteve wrote:
    Yesterday I learned... Shuttle used "sparklers" to intentionally burn off hydrogen that might accumulate below the SSMEs
    https://space.stackexchange.com/questio ... -of-launch

    I recalled those sparks-- never realized their purpose.


    Shuttle and Artemis also use a huge volume of nitrogen purge gas. Basically the entire envelope around the rocket and tower is purged, to suppress any source of ignition. But since they use liquid hydrogen and oxygen to condition the engines before start, once that process begins there is a risk of accumulation around the engines. That effectively degrades the protection of the nitrogen purge, so they have detectors everywhere to sense leaks, and use the sparklers before engine start to be sure.

    You may recall WDR was delayed several times because they could not get the nitrogen flow they needed, without a supplier upgrade.
     
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    Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

    Thu Jul 21, 2022 3:08 pm

    casinterest wrote:
    Avatar2go wrote:
    In B7 booster news, 7 Raptors have thus far been removed for inspection and/or repair/replacement, after the mixture detonation event beneath the engines.

    Have to imagine a lot of wires were crisped, and a lot of items were detached from their static assembly by the heat and force of that blast.

    Going to need to repair quite a bit to figure it all out.


    Rumors from SpaceX are that the B7 damage is extensive and they are evaluating whether to move on to B8 for the orbital launch. If so, that will delay things for a few months.
     
    Avatar2go
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    Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

    Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:04 pm

    NASA has announced the Crew 5 flight is delayed until September 29th, after the Falcon 9 rocket accidently collided with an overpass during transport. The interstage was damaged and will be replaced, the F9 will be inspected for shock damage.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/TGMetsFan98/ ... 1870941190
     
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    flyingturtle
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    Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

    Sun Jul 24, 2022 2:01 pm

    Splendid touchdown today...

    And for the first time, I've seen their new Starship launch tower:

    Image
     
    GDB
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    Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

    Wed Jul 27, 2022 6:56 pm

    Starlink in use in Ukraine;
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4sgizRKJk8

    Maybe those Russians who Musk met over 20 years ago, when he was seeking to buy as launchers some decommissioned ICBM's, they should not have been so sneering and dismissive?
    Still, worked out for the best, for the US space program anyway!
     
    GDB
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    Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

    Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:40 pm

    Yesterday saw the first Korean Lunar mission, on the 6th flight for the booster;
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTrkHZjiO_8

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danuri
     
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    Tugger
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    Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

    Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:15 pm

    Looks like some Crew trunk debris survived reentry and fell onto Aussie farm land (and it wasn't the only piece):
    The U.S. space agency, NASA, said in a statement that SpaceX confirmed that the object was likely the remaining part of the jettisoned trunk segment from a Dragon spacecraft used during the Crew-1 mission’s return from the International Space Station in May last year.

    Image
    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/04/worl ... ralia.html

    Tugg
     
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    Nomadd
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    Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

    Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:52 am

    Tugger wrote:
    Looks like some Crew trunk debris survived reentry and fell onto Aussie farm land (and it wasn't the only piece):
    The U.S. space agency, NASA, said in a statement that SpaceX confirmed that the object was likely the remaining part of the jettisoned trunk segment from a Dragon spacecraft used during the Crew-1 mission’s return from the International Space Station in May last year.

    Image
    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/04/worl ... ralia.html
    Tugg

    No imagination. I would have made a patio table out of it by now. Match my SN8 beer cooler.
     
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    bikerthai
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    Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

    Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:19 am

    Nomadd wrote:
    No imagination.


    My fist though . . . The monolith!

    bt
     
    Avatar2go
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    Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

    Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:14 pm

    SpaceX has decided to test the B7 booster with just the outer ring of engines for now. Center engines were removed during the repair and will be reinstalled after the tests.
     
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    flyingturtle
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    Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

    Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:23 am

    Model rockets are good. Model rockets with propulsive landing are even better!

    Here, a guy modified one to do exactly that, and it took him seven years to do so. He regulates thrust in a rather crude way - a fire-proof clamp that grips into the exhaust flame, and deflects it sideways. But the iterative testing and data analysis in order to modify the flight control software lets you imagine what it means to land a Falcon 9.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SH3lR2GLgT0
     
    ThePointblank
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    Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

    Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:01 pm

    Northrop Grumman has reached an agreement with SpaceX to provide 3 Falcon 9 launches in 2023 and 2024 for the Cygnus resupply capsules for the ISS, while they wait for a new engine for their Antares rocket:

    https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/scien ... 022-08-08/

    A Northrop spokeswoman told Reuters that the company purchased three Falcon 9 launches from Elon Musk's SpaceX to launch Cygnus capsules to the space station while Antares 330 is under development. Those Falcon 9 missions will launch in late 2023 and 2024.
     
    zanl188
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    Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

    Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:45 am

    Starship Booster number 7 did its first static fire a couple of hours ago. Single engine.

    https://youtu.be/z0Ghy_k5VYU
     
    zanl188
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    Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

    Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:21 am

    And Ship 24 just got a static fire off…..
     
    Avatar2go
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    Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

    Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:41 am

    zanl188 wrote:
    And Ship 24 just got a static fire off…..


    Yes, they static fired 2 engines on SN 24. Also B7 did a spin test and short fire of 1 engine today. Good they are taking smaller steps with less risk. Looking forward to slowly ramping those tests up.
     
    Avatar2go
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    Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

    Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:34 pm

    B7 did a longer duration static fire of 21 seconds today, on 1 engine. So another step forward. This was to test autogenous pressurization of the propellant tanks.
     
    zanl188
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    Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

    Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:59 am

    Avatar2go wrote:
    B7 did a longer duration static fire of 21 seconds today, on 1 engine. So another step forward. This was to test autogenous pressurization of the propellant tanks.


    https://youtu.be/XtNhzsSZzug
     
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    casinterest
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    Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

    Fri Aug 19, 2022 7:33 pm

    It definitely seems to be about as routine as planes flying these days.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M018DAaNd_E

    Another successful Starlink launch and 1st stage recovery.
     
    iamlucky13
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    Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

    Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:12 pm

    casinterest wrote:
    It definitely seems to be about as routine as planes flying these days.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M018DAaNd_E

    Another successful Starlink launch and 1st stage recovery.


    They've reached a level of routine that seems like a major step change in the space launch business, but we're still talking about 36 total flights in 34 weeks, with typically 2-3 months refurbishment between each flight, although their record appears to be 21 days turnaround, with 4 others having completed in less than a month.

    It's an impressive cadence they have achieved, but it's still a very different routine from aviation.

    It looks like they have 3 boosters (1051, 1058, and 1060) currently tied for most flown with 13 successful launches each. And the last failed booster recovery was February of last year. They've had 62 consecutive successful landings since then. I'm not quite certain, but I think they have 13 boosters currently available for use, and I think their production of Falcon 9 1st stages has now decreased to only 3 or 4 per year.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_F ... rs#Block_5
     
    zanl188
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    Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

    Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:06 am

    SpaceX / T-Mobile announcement coming shortly.
     
    zanl188
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    Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

    Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:15 am

    T-Mobile to provide cell service to existing cell phones thru Starlink satellites. In Beta starting next year.
     
    zanl188
    Posts: 4214
    Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:05 pm

    Re: SpaceX - Tests, Launches, Developments - 2022

    Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:54 am

    Starlink cell service will require Gen 2 satellites and Starship.. Some technology demonstrations may be possible with earlier satellites and Falcon 9.

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