Israel locked in 12 CH-53Ks (along with 2 KC-46s).

https://twitter.com/Israel_MOD/status/1 ... 6239388678

Israel is to buy 12 CH-53Ks. How does that work?

1) The Marines will give Israel some slots they had on the production line, delaying the Marine Corps own purchases?

2) LM will have a temporary rate increase to build these extra machines? Do they have the tooling/space/labor to have a temporary increase in production rate?

3) LM had some spare capacity in their production system? If so, had no one bought additional CH-53Ks would that have cost LM?

4) Something else??

https://news.usni.org/2022/01/05/israel ... elicopters

kitplane01 wrote:

Israel is to buy 12 CH-53Ks. How does that work?

1) The Marines will give Israel some slots they had on the production line, delaying the Marine Corps own purchases?

2) LM will have a temporary rate increase to build these extra machines? Do they have the tooling/space/labor to have a temporary increase in production rate?

3) LM had some spare capacity in their production system? If so, had no one bought additional CH-53Ks would that have cost LM?

4) Something else??

https://news.usni.org/2022/01/05/israel ... elicopters

Depends on the lead time required. If the Israelis are really pushy and need them asap then sometimes the US takes a side step. Usually from order to first delivery it is sometimes two and more often three plus years. In this case first CH-53K is scheduled for 2026 so Sikorsky has plenty of time to up the rate enough to slide the aircraft into the schedule, order the long lead parts yada yada.

SeamanBeaumont wrote:

kitplane01 wrote:

Israel is to buy 12 CH-53Ks. How does that work?

1) The Marines will give Israel some slots they had on the production line, delaying the Marine Corps own purchases?

2) LM will have a temporary rate increase to build these extra machines? Do they have the tooling/space/labor to have a temporary increase in production rate?

3) LM had some spare capacity in their production system? If so, had no one bought additional CH-53Ks would that have cost LM?

4) Something else??

https://news.usni.org/2022/01/05/israel ... elicopters

Depends on the lead time required. If the Israelis are really pushy and need them asap then sometimes the US takes a side step. Usually from order to first delivery it is sometimes two and more often three plus years. In this case first CH-53K is scheduled for 2026 so Sikorsky has plenty of time to up the rate enough to slide the aircraft into the schedule, order the long lead parts yada yada.

2026? I know it was delayed but, if the source below is correct, after the IAF CH-53's they have leave service.
For all the it seems received wisdom of 'US helicopters always delivered on time, always work, Europeans ones, the opposite', while I agree that EADS, now Airbus Helicopters messed up with the NN-90, that was an all new design with work spread across multiple nations and services, what's Sikorsky's excuse?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_ ... g_Stallion

Shame because I always liked the CH-53 series.

GDB wrote:

2026? I know it was delayed but, if the source below is correct, after the IAF CH-53's they have leave service.
For all the it seems received wisdom of 'US helicopters always delivered on time, always work, Europeans ones, the opposite', while I agree that EADS, now Airbus Helicopters messed up with the NN-90, that was an all new design with work spread across multiple nations and services, what's Sikorsky's excuse?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_ ... g_Stallion

Shame because I always liked the CH-53 series.

2026 I grabbed from here, https://www.defensenews.com/air/2022/01 ... -53-helos/

The agreement includes an option for six more helicopters, the ministry said, adding that the first will arrive by 2026.

Extra stuff: Sorry just understood what you said. 2026 is the Israeli first delivery date, not the USMC timeline. The jarheads already have their first couple of frames.

SeamanBeaumont wrote:

kitplane01 wrote:

Israel is to buy 12 CH-53Ks. How does that work?

1) The Marines will give Israel some slots they had on the production line, delaying the Marine Corps own purchases?

2) LM will have a temporary rate increase to build these extra machines? Do they have the tooling/space/labor to have a temporary increase in production rate?

3) LM had some spare capacity in their production system? If so, had no one bought additional CH-53Ks would that have cost LM?

4) Something else??

https://news.usni.org/2022/01/05/israel ... elicopters

Depends on the lead time required. If the Israelis are really pushy and need them asap then sometimes the US takes a side step. Usually from order to first delivery it is sometimes two and more often three plus years. In this case first CH-53K is scheduled for 2026 so Sikorsky has plenty of time to up the rate enough to slide the aircraft into the schedule, order the long lead parts yada yada.

I wonder how that works. I understand one can vary the labor force. But do they need to buy extra tooling and space to increase the rate, only to not need it after the Israeli order is done? It would seem inefficient to have the spare capacity just lying around, and the CH-53K was never going to attract lots of foreign orders like an F-16. It's not just capacity at LM, but also with all the suppliers of custom parts.

kitplane01 wrote:

SeamanBeaumont wrote:

kitplane01 wrote:

Israel is to buy 12 CH-53Ks. How does that work?

1) The Marines will give Israel some slots they had on the production line, delaying the Marine Corps own purchases?

2) LM will have a temporary rate increase to build these extra machines? Do they have the tooling/space/labor to have a temporary increase in production rate?

3) LM had some spare capacity in their production system? If so, had no one bought additional CH-53Ks would that have cost LM?

4) Something else??

https://news.usni.org/2022/01/05/israel ... elicopters

Depends on the lead time required. If the Israelis are really pushy and need them asap then sometimes the US takes a side step. Usually from order to first delivery it is sometimes two and more often three plus years. In this case first CH-53K is scheduled for 2026 so Sikorsky has plenty of time to up the rate enough to slide the aircraft into the schedule, order the long lead parts yada yada.

I wonder how that works. I understand one can vary the labor force. But do they need to buy extra tooling and space to increase the rate, only to not need it after the Israeli order is done? It would seem inefficient to have the spare capacity just lying around, and the CH-53K was never going to attract lots of foreign orders like an F-16. It's not just capacity at LM, but also with all the suppliers of custom parts.

The jarheads want around 200 airframes so it is pretty straight forward to plan ahead and slot an extra Israeli 12 into the prod run. They don't get all 12 at once, probably have them delivered over a two or three year period so easy to either up the rate or slow the USMC rate a little. Standard stuff as Israeli and FMS deals happen all the time, the primes are very much used to it.

SeamanBeaumont wrote:

it is pretty straight forward to plan ahead and slot an extra Israeli 12 into the prod run.

Concur. The US has in the past swapped position slots to support allies schedules. That is why I was curious why they did not allow Israel to accelerate the KC-46 delivery slots. Perhaps it was more of a political decision. But that's for the other thread.

bt