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kitplane01
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Poland's $15B Buy from S. Korea!

Tue Jul 26, 2022 6:12 am

Poland to buy
48 FA-50 light fighter jets,
180 K2 tanks,
670 K9 self-propelled artillery pieces

The biggest export deal ever from South Korea.

The FA-50 seems to be selling well.

The FA-50 delivery schedule is fast and strange: All deliveries are planned to be completed “in 2023, with 12 aircraft in the current FA-50 Block 10 version being delivered first, followed by 36 aircraft in the [Block 20-like] FA-50PL version. Upon the completion of deliveries, the first 12 aircraft are to be upgraded to the FA-50PL version. It is expected that a training center with simulators and a service center will be built in Poland by around 2026,”

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/b ... -howitzers
 
mxaxai
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Re: Poland's $15B Buy from S. Korea!

Tue Jul 26, 2022 6:50 am

From the article, Poland may also be interested in KF-21 fighters in the future.
 
A101
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Re: Poland's $15B Buy from S. Korea!

Tue Jul 26, 2022 7:04 am

kitplane01 wrote:
Poland to buy
48 FA-50 light fighter jets,
180 K2 tanks,
670 K9 self-propelled artillery pieces

The biggest export deal ever from South Korea.

The FA-50 seems to be selling well.

The FA-50 delivery schedule is fast and strange: All deliveries are planned to be completed “in 2023, with 12 aircraft in the current FA-50 Block 10 version being delivered first, followed by 36 aircraft in the [Block 20-like] FA-50PL version. Upon the completion of deliveries, the first 12 aircraft are to be upgraded to the FA-50PL version. It is expected that a training center with simulators and a service center will be built in Poland by around 2026,”

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/b ... -howitzers


They must have got a better overall deal out of ROK then US for the MBT

https://www.dsca.mil/press-media/major- ... attle-tank

And no F35A

https://www.dsca.mil/press-media/major- ... r-aircraft
 
RJMAZ
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Re: Poland's $15B Buy from S. Korea!

Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:28 am

A101 wrote:
And no F35A

They have already ordered F-35A.

As the F-35 is sold out they probably couldn't get any more. The FA-50 is the perfect low end compliment and short term capability boost. I'm sure the FA-50 will be available soon.

Boeing really needs to get the fighter version of the T-7 launched. The market is huge.
 
mxaxai
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Re: Poland's $15B Buy from S. Korea!

Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:29 am

A101 wrote:

Poland already signed a firm order for 32 F-35A, delivery between 2024 and 2026, and 250 M1A2 plus support vehicles, delivery starting this year.

With a fleet of 48 F-16, 48 FA-50 and 32 F-35 in the air, and 180 K2, 250 Leopard II and 250 M1A2 on the ground, the Polish armed forces will be by far the strongest in eastern Europe. In some aspects even better equipped than several western and northern European armies.
 
GDB
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Re: Poland's $15B Buy from S. Korea!

Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:52 am

The part that strikes me is the artillery, Poland are producing their own one, based on a mix of the South Korean and AS-90, 18 already delivered to Ukraine with up to 60 more planned. So are they buying these from ROK to quickly bolster their SPG inventory as well as maxing out production for Ukraine?
Ditto the K2 MBT's a quick way to replace remaining Soviet era tanks?

As for the rapid procurement, look what's going on across their border, plus they hate the Russians with good reason, shades of 'come and have a go if you think your hard enough?'
 
kelval
Posts: 151
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Re: Poland's $15B Buy from S. Korea!

Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:58 am

RJMAZ wrote:
A101 wrote:
And no F35A

They have already ordered F-35A.

As the F-35 is sold out they probably couldn't get any more. The FA-50 is the perfect low end compliment and short term capability boost. I'm sure the FA-50 will be available soon.

Boeing really needs to get the fighter version of the T-7 launched. The market is huge.


Plus the F35 isn't a really good "sky police" plane, it's more of a deep penetration strike aircraft.
If you plan on the fact that Russia will be dissuaded from attacking (plus Ukraine's war is litterally bleeding them atm), the FA50 will do well on a daily basis. Will be much cheaper to use too.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Poland's $15B Buy from S. Korea!

Tue Jul 26, 2022 1:18 pm

A101 wrote:
kitplane01 wrote:
Poland to buy
48 FA-50 light fighter jets,
180 K2 tanks,
670 K9 self-propelled artillery pieces

The biggest export deal ever from South Korea.

The FA-50 seems to be selling well.

The FA-50 delivery schedule is fast and strange: All deliveries are planned to be completed “in 2023, with 12 aircraft in the current FA-50 Block 10 version being delivered first, followed by 36 aircraft in the [Block 20-like] FA-50PL version. Upon the completion of deliveries, the first 12 aircraft are to be upgraded to the FA-50PL version. It is expected that a training center with simulators and a service center will be built in Poland by around 2026,”

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/b ... -howitzers


They must have got a better overall deal out of ROK then US for the MBT.


They're still buying the M1s, but they will be buying upwards of 1000 K2's.

In short:
    180 K2, to be upgraded later to K2PL.
    820 K2PL produced partially in Poland.
    K3PL development project between Poland and South Korea.
    1,000-1,400 Borsuk light IFV (amphibious).
    Unknown number of heavier AS21 IFVs.
    144 AHS Krab.
    48 K9 upgraded to K9PL.
    642 K9PL based on K9A2.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551431630002262022

This is a massive deal for Korea.
 
johns624
Posts: 5962
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Re: Poland's $15B Buy from S. Korea!

Tue Jul 26, 2022 1:23 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
A101 wrote:
kitplane01 wrote:
Poland to buy
48 FA-50 light fighter jets,
180 K2 tanks,
670 K9 self-propelled artillery pieces

The biggest export deal ever from South Korea.

The FA-50 seems to be selling well.

The FA-50 delivery schedule is fast and strange: All deliveries are planned to be completed “in 2023, with 12 aircraft in the current FA-50 Block 10 version being delivered first, followed by 36 aircraft in the [Block 20-like] FA-50PL version. Upon the completion of deliveries, the first 12 aircraft are to be upgraded to the FA-50PL version. It is expected that a training center with simulators and a service center will be built in Poland by around 2026,”

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/b ... -howitzers


They must have got a better overall deal out of ROK then US for the MBT.


They're still buying the M1s, but they will be buying upwards of 1000 K2's.

In short:
    180 K2, to be upgraded later to K2PL.
    820 K2PL produced partially in Poland.
    K3PL development project between Poland and South Korea.
    1,000-1,400 Borsuk light IFV (amphibious).
    Unknown number of heavier AS21 IFVs.
    144 AHS Krab.
    48 K9 upgraded to K9PL.
    642 K9PL based on K9A2.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551431630002262022

This is a massive deal for Korea.
Germany and Russia should both be worried...very worried. :D
 
TheSonntag
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Re: Poland's $15B Buy from S. Korea!

Tue Jul 26, 2022 2:00 pm

Last time I looked at Wikipedia, Poland was NATO member (like germany) and EU member, so both countries are allies and close neighbours. It is true that Germany bashing is a hobby from Polands far right garden gnome government, but doesn't change the fact that both countries are very close.

It would help if Poland played a more constructive role sometimes, however.
 
GDB
Posts: 16246
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Re: Poland's $15B Buy from S. Korea!

Tue Jul 26, 2022 4:46 pm

 
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kitplane01
Topic Author
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Re: Poland's $15B Buy from S. Korea!

Tue Jul 26, 2022 6:19 pm

TheSonntag wrote:
Last time I looked at Wikipedia, Poland was NATO member (like germany) and EU member, so both countries are allies and close neighbours. It is true that Germany bashing is a hobby from Polands far right garden gnome government, but doesn't change the fact that both countries are very close.

It would help if Poland played a more constructive role sometimes, however.


Pretty sure he was joking about Germany fearing Poland.
 
johns624
Posts: 5962
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Poland's $15B Buy from S. Korea!

Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:32 pm

kitplane01 wrote:
TheSonntag wrote:
Last time I looked at Wikipedia, Poland was NATO member (like germany) and EU member, so both countries are allies and close neighbours. It is true that Germany bashing is a hobby from Polands far right garden gnome government, but doesn't change the fact that both countries are very close.

It would help if Poland played a more constructive role sometimes, however.


Pretty sure he was joking about Germany fearing Poland.
Thank you. Yes, I was. I was merely referring to the past history between the three countries and the opportunity for paybacks. I do find it unusual though, for a German to tell Poland to be "more constructive" in the current climate.
 
RJMAZ
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Re: Poland's $15B Buy from S. Korea!

Wed Jul 27, 2022 1:23 am

South Korea to deliver first FA-50s to Poland in 2023: Polish Defense Minister


https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/3172 ... nd-in-2023

Very rapid delivery. Korea's production line has finished delivering most of the orders. Another benefit of it being based on a two seat trainer is that pilots can transition quickly in a single step.
 
bajs11
Posts: 107
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:29 am

Re: Poland's $15B Buy from S. Korea!

Wed Jul 27, 2022 7:56 am

kitplane01 wrote:
Poland to buy
48 FA-50 light fighter jets,
180 K2 tanks,
670 K9 self-propelled artillery pieces

The biggest export deal ever from South Korea.

The FA-50 seems to be selling well.

The FA-50 delivery schedule is fast and strange: All deliveries are planned to be completed “in 2023, with 12 aircraft in the current FA-50 Block 10 version being delivered first, followed by 36 aircraft in the [Block 20-like] FA-50PL version. Upon the completion of deliveries, the first 12 aircraft are to be upgraded to the FA-50PL version. It is expected that a training center with simulators and a service center will be built in Poland by around 2026,”

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/b ... -howitzers


Now that's a lot of tanks since they already ordered 250 M1A2 and artillery with up to 500 HIMARS
https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... ry-forces/

on top of that they will have F-16, F-35 and FA-50
wonder if they are trying to build the largest military in the EU
 
TheSonntag
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Re: Poland's $15B Buy from S. Korea!

Wed Jul 27, 2022 1:20 pm

Slightly o/t but Germany apparently just approved the sale of 100 PZH 2000 to Ukraine:

https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschl ... e96560da9d

Those are new builts which do not exist yet, but nevertheless this is an interesting development. I know its a bit o/t, but nevertheless significant.
 
GDB
Posts: 16246
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Re: Poland's $15B Buy from S. Korea!

Wed Jul 27, 2022 5:45 pm

More details and analysis;
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/poland- ... f-ukraine/

Vlad's really screwed up here, not only uniting the West in general and NATO in particular, adding two new members, one of which he certainly did not want to see happen and was unlikely to prior to Ukraine.
Now he has greatly accelerated both the speed and scope of rearming a nation Russia has long seen as a punch bag, Stalin never forgave Poland for beating him in a war in the early 20's.

Hence the 1939 pact with the Nazis, the Katyn massacre, standing back while the Germans destroyed the Warsaw uprising.
Small wonder that many in NATO in the Cold War speculated should conflict come, Poland, for all the repression of the puppet governments, might not be reliable.
Then Solidarity happened, their put down under the implicit threat of Russian intervention was another crack in the facade, no doubt an ambitious rising politician called Gorbachev was paying attention.

Now Poland is building a force that could chew up the Russians, except for nuclear....oh wait, Poland is in NATO so that's not an option either.
Last edited by GDB on Wed Jul 27, 2022 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 13217
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Re: Poland's $15B Buy from S. Korea!

Wed Jul 27, 2022 5:46 pm

Interesting move. Fast delivery and quite a substantial number. Su22 and Mig29 replacements? Might be that these will be transferred to the Ukrain Airforce after all. We'll see how that works out.

I think it is smart thinking to have some kind of light fighter in your inventory. There was some talk a while ago, that the Dutch would get some as well to argument the F-35.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Poland's $15B Buy from S. Korea!

Thu Jul 28, 2022 12:28 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Fast delivery


I was wondering why Poland is buying so many different systems for tanks to artilery to aircrafts.

That would surely be a complicated training and maintenance issue.

But fast delivery is what the want.

https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/07/wh ... e-horizon/

They want the system now and will worry about commonality later.

bt
 
GDB
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Re: Poland's $15B Buy from S. Korea!

Thu Jul 28, 2022 1:32 pm

bikerthai wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Fast delivery


I was wondering why Poland is buying so many different systems for tanks to artilery to aircrafts.

That would surely be a complicated training and maintenance issue.

But fast delivery is what the want.

https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/07/wh ... e-horizon/

They want the system now and will worry about commonality later.

bt


It does but the core things, like the 120mm tank and 155mm artillery ammunition, are standard, plus this is supplanting Soviet era equipment and quicker so it kind of balances out eventually?
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Poland's $15B Buy from S. Korea!

Thu Jul 28, 2022 1:56 pm

GDB wrote:
plus this is supplanting Soviet era equipment and quicker so it kind of balances out eventually?


True, even with the complexity at the maintenance depot, they probably would have better reliability than the Russian equipment. Although aren't the Russian equipment supposed to be pretty rugged?

Also, having the option of trying out all the different hardware, they will know first hand what they really best for them and unload the un-wanted stuff to Ukraine down the road :D

bt
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Poland's $15B Buy from S. Korea!

Thu Jul 28, 2022 2:01 pm

GDB wrote:
bikerthai wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Fast delivery


I was wondering why Poland is buying so many different systems for tanks to artilery to aircrafts.

That would surely be a complicated training and maintenance issue.

But fast delivery is what the want.

https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/07/wh ... e-horizon/

They want the system now and will worry about commonality later.

bt


It does but the core things, like the 120mm tank and 155mm artillery ammunition, are standard, plus this is supplanting Soviet era equipment and quicker so it kind of balances out eventually?


That might be an issue too. If your stock is from Russia, you cannot be sure that all the maintenance and stockpiles will be done in time. That might be a reason to excellerate the replacement cycle.
 
GDB
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Re: Poland's $15B Buy from S. Korea!

Thu Jul 28, 2022 3:42 pm

I had missed this, Poland already as many will know, assembles UH-60's, so this is something of a surprise too, unless they just want newer generation experience industrially and operationally.
https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/07/le ... ed-forces/

This type is a front runner to replace the RAF's Puma Mk.2's in the support role and various contractor types in the SAR and support in areas like Cyprus and Brunei.
 
GDB
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Re: Poland's $15B Buy from S. Korea!

Sun Nov 27, 2022 5:23 pm

Away from Ukraine, this week's Perun deep dive goes into the huge Polish procurement, background, rationale, with guest The Chieftain to comment of the K2 MBT's.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrbaAKZfjwg

Small by comparison, though not the only defence/tech transfer deal;
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/land ... -relations

More on the FA-50;
https://defence24.com/armed-forces/pola ... -3-billion

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