Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
-
- fraspotter
- Posts: 2335
- Joined:
USAF Refueling - Boom Operators
This question is specific to the USAF and their tanker refueling fleet. Currently the USAF refueling fleet operates 3 different types (KC135, KC10, KC46). I would assume that the flight crews are specific to their aircraft and cross training between types is rare if not unheard of. As far as the specialists operating the booms during refueling operations are concerned, are they specific to a single aircraft type or could they move between KC135, KC10 and the KC46 as needed or would they need cross training? How many aircraft types can they be certified on at a time?
Re: USAF Refueling - Boom Operators
@LyleLanley would know the answers to this. My understanding is the 3 aircraft have 3 different boom systems, so I believe all would require separate training.
Re: USAF Refueling - Boom Operators
Not an expert by any means, but the three tankers all have vastly different boom operator's stations. Both the KC-135 and KC-10 have stations in "pods" in the back of the aircraft, with the boomer doing his/her job in two different positions (lying on his/her stomach versus sitting in a chair). The KC-46 station is up front and requires the boom operator to do his/her job using different visual means. A good example of the KC-46's boom operator station is linked below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU26R1KO774
I would think a boom operator going from the KC-135 to KC-46 or KC-10 to KC-46 will need to be trained on the differences in the systems and how to employ them in peacetime training and on actual combat missions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU26R1KO774
I would think a boom operator going from the KC-135 to KC-46 or KC-10 to KC-46 will need to be trained on the differences in the systems and how to employ them in peacetime training and on actual combat missions.
Re: USAF Refueling - Boom Operators
Whatever happened to the saying, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"?
What happens if the cameras/video feed on the KC-46 craps out? Do they have a contingency plan in place whereby the boom operator can physically eyeball and control the boom from the back of the plane?
KC-10:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FIAGaahB6E
KC-135:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXoKx_AeOjo
What happens if the cameras/video feed on the KC-46 craps out? Do they have a contingency plan in place whereby the boom operator can physically eyeball and control the boom from the back of the plane?
KC-10:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FIAGaahB6E
KC-135:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXoKx_AeOjo
Re: USAF Refueling - Boom Operators
889091 wrote:Whatever happened to the saying, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"?
What happens if the cameras/video feed on the KC-46 craps out? Do they have a contingency plan in place whereby the boom operator can physically eyeball and control the boom from the back of the plane?
KC-10:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FIAGaahB6E
KC-135:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXoKx_AeOjo
Nope, no Air Force wants that capability. They want the operator at a remote control station, because eventually they want to use automation for those functions, with the operator supervising.
There are redundancies built into the system, but mostly there are redundant tankers available if needed.
-
- LyleLanley
- Posts: 853
- Joined:
Re: USAF Refueling - Boom Operators
fraspotter wrote:This question is specific to the USAF and their tanker refueling fleet. Currently the USAF refueling fleet operates 3 different types (KC135, KC10, KC46). I would assume that the flight crews are specific to their aircraft and cross training between types is rare if not unheard of. As far as the specialists operating the booms during refueling operations are concerned, are they specific to a single aircraft type or could they move between KC135, KC10 and the KC46 as needed or would they need cross training? How many aircraft types can they be certified on at a time?
The aircraft and systems are entirely different, so guys don't just jump from one airframe to another without going through an extensive training process lasting between six months to a year. That being said, once you're stuck on an airframe, cross-flowing from one type to another isn't uncommon, especially for career broadening or leveling out manning at different bases, but it's not the first choice if it can be avoided. For instance: if manning for MSgts at Fairchild (KC-135) is low, but MSgts at McGuire (KC-10 and KC-46) are overmanned, the powers that be might pick one or two and banish them to Fairchild to become a lowly KC-135 boom operator, where they'll be consigned to that cruel fate until they can eke out something - anything - better. Not only does that training cost nearly a million dollars, but it's better to grow in that airframe through Instructor, Evaluator, and beyond, for that community's experience levels. So long air conditioning and hello back/neck issues!
Qualifying on more than one aircraft at a time is pretty rare. An exception that comes to mind are the Flight Test booms at Edwards, but there are occasionally others. Very rare, though.
-
- LyleLanley
- Posts: 853
- Joined:
Re: USAF Refueling - Boom Operators
889091 wrote:Whatever happened to the saying, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"?
What happens if the cameras/video feed on the KC-46 craps out? Do they have a contingency plan in place whereby the boom operator can physically eyeball and control the boom from the back of the plane?
KC-10:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FIAGaahB6E
KC-135:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXoKx_AeOjo
It's not uncommon for KC-135s to have to cancel because the boom can't see out the window: hydraulic fluid leaks, deicing fluid, etc. can all impede vision. Also know of guys who've had windows crack inflight.
Without going too far into KC-46 systems, there are redundancies and contingency plans.