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TDAero777
Topic Author
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:34 pm

B-1 Quick Start/Other Aircraft with feature?

Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:47 pm

Hello All,

Had a quick question - I know that during its time as a SAC bomber the B-1 had the ability to be started prior to entry in the cockpit near the ladder, but I've never seen pictures of what the actual buttons look like or what options there were for the type of start? Also what other aircraft have the ability and is it a simple as powering the aircraft up to enable starting of engines or is it literally a full on engines starting and by the time all members are in cockpit the aircraft can be moved?

Thanks!
 
LordTarkin
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:45 am

Re: B-1 Quick Start/Other Aircraft with feature?

Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:18 pm

TDAero777 wrote:
Hello All,

Had a quick question - I know that during its time as a SAC bomber the B-1 had the ability to be started prior to entry in the cockpit near the ladder, but I've never seen pictures of what the actual buttons look like or what options there were for the type of start? Also what other aircraft have the ability and is it a simple as powering the aircraft up to enable starting of engines or is it literally a full on engines starting and by the time all members are in cockpit the aircraft can be moved?

Thanks!


You're referring to the EWO start procedure. This does not start the engines, only the APUs, however it does posture the aircraft for engine start once the crew is up. Normally the crew starts one engine at a time for enhanced safety. During an EWO start they would do one on each side simultaneously. They are the two red round switches in this picture, just to the right of the red handle that controls the crew entry ladder.

KC-135 also has an EWO start procedure, same concept, different implementation. Postures the aircraft for immediate engine start once the crew is on board. They would also deviate from normal one engine start procedure and start one engine on each side simultaneously.

There are maintenance procedures to configure the aircraft for these starts that must be accomplished in order for them to proceed correctly, usually in conjunction with placing the aircraft on alert or performing an operational check.

In my experience, engines don't spin until there's a butt in the seat, however I don't know other aircraft well enough to say that is always the rule.

https://www.airliners.net/photo/USA-Air ... ww9A%3D%3D
 
User avatar
Spacepope
Posts: 6049
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

Re: B-1 Quick Start/Other Aircraft with feature?

Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:58 pm

LordTarkin wrote:
TDAero777 wrote:
Hello All,

Had a quick question - I know that during its time as a SAC bomber the B-1 had the ability to be started prior to entry in the cockpit near the ladder, but I've never seen pictures of what the actual buttons look like or what options there were for the type of start? Also what other aircraft have the ability and is it a simple as powering the aircraft up to enable starting of engines or is it literally a full on engines starting and by the time all members are in cockpit the aircraft can be moved?

Thanks!


You're referring to the EWO start procedure. This does not start the engines, only the APUs, however it does posture the aircraft for engine start once the crew is up. Normally the crew starts one engine at a time for enhanced safety. During an EWO start they would do one on each side simultaneously. They are the two red round switches in this picture, just to the right of the red handle that controls the crew entry ladder.

KC-135 also has an EWO start procedure, same concept, different implementation. Postures the aircraft for immediate engine start once the crew is on board. They would also deviate from normal one engine start procedure and start one engine on each side simultaneously.

There are maintenance procedures to configure the aircraft for these starts that must be accomplished in order for them to proceed correctly, usually in conjunction with placing the aircraft on alert or performing an operational check.

In my experience, engines don't spin until there's a butt in the seat, however I don't know other aircraft well enough to say that is always the rule.

https://www.airliners.net/photo/USA-Air ... ww9A%3D%3D

Quoted to add photo
 
Max Q
Posts: 9442
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: B-1 Quick Start/Other Aircraft with feature?

Fri Nov 18, 2022 6:54 am

The B1 is a seriously cool aircraft


Thanks for the pictures, what is the red lever for behind those buttons ?
 
JayinKitsap
Posts: 3055
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

Re: B-1 Quick Start/Other Aircraft with feature?

Fri Nov 18, 2022 8:10 am

The BUFF has quick start canisters, but I think all are in their seats when they start the engines. In a big cloud of smoke all 8 start at same time.
 
VMCA787
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:31 pm

Re: B-1 Quick Start/Other Aircraft with feature?

Fri Nov 18, 2022 10:27 am

One of the "benefits" of the CERP program on the B-52 is the addition of an APU. The addition of an APU, will allow the same type of functionality that is on the B-1. The current cart start requires the copilot to be in the right seat and the battery turned on the allow a cart start.
 
User avatar
Moose135
Posts: 3305
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:27 pm

Re: B-1 Quick Start/Other Aircraft with feature?

Fri Nov 18, 2022 3:37 pm

JayinKitsap wrote:
The BUFF has quick start canisters, but I think all are in their seats when they start the engines. In a big cloud of smoke all 8 start at same time.


The KC-135A had the same thing, cartridges for EWO Alert starts. Normally we had carts in the two outboard engines, but depending on 'conditions' could have them in all 4. We didn't have B-52s at my base, so I don't recall their procedure, but I'm don't know if they would regularly have carts in all 8 engines. And yes, we didn't fire the carts until the pilots were in the seats, ready to start engines.
 
Buckeyetech
Posts: 215
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:11 am

Re: B-1 Quick Start/Other Aircraft with feature?

Fri Nov 18, 2022 3:45 pm

Moose135 wrote:
JayinKitsap wrote:
The BUFF has quick start canisters, but I think all are in their seats when they start the engines. In a big cloud of smoke all 8 start at same time.


The KC-135A had the same thing, cartridges for EWO Alert starts. Normally we had carts in the two outboard engines, but depending on 'conditions' could have them in all 4. We didn't have B-52s at my base, so I don't recall their procedure, but I'm don't know if they would regularly have carts in all 8 engines. And yes, we didn't fire the carts until the pilots were in the seats, ready to start engines.


When I worked the BUFFs in the early 2000’s, we would only start two engines off the cartridges during exercises, due to the fact you were required to wear a respirator when all eight engines were started off cartridges.
 
JayinKitsap
Posts: 3055
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

Re: B-1 Quick Start/Other Aircraft with feature?

Tue Nov 22, 2022 1:29 am

Speak of the Devil - just as this thread is out Task & Purpose has a good article on the BUFF cart start.

https://taskandpurpose.com/tech-tactics ... art-start/
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 10319
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: B-1 Quick Start/Other Aircraft with feature?

Tue Nov 22, 2022 1:57 am

The C-5 had a quick start procedure—it used a calendar.
 
889091
Posts: 1000
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:56 pm

Re: B-1 Quick Start/Other Aircraft with feature?

Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:53 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
The C-5 had a quick start procedure—it used a calendar.


:rotfl: You win the internet for the day...
 
User avatar
LyleLanley
Posts: 782
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:33 pm

Re: B-1 Quick Start/Other Aircraft with feature?

Sun Nov 27, 2022 9:16 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
The C-5 had a quick start procedure—it used a calendar.


Don't be modest. The two quickest ways to get a C-5 off your airfield was either A.) The crew is stuck on base and no trans available. Or B.) The next station has a much higher per diem rate. Or both.

"Hydro leak? I don't see any hydro leak" as the scanner is jabbed in his side by the FE.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 10319
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: B-1 Quick Start/Other Aircraft with feature?

Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:32 am

It was the damnedest thing to operate, the C-5. I did a trip a trip, KCEF-KSUU-PHIK-YWLM (Williamtown, NSW)-NSTU-PHIK-KHIF-KCEF. It ran like a Swiss train—7 on-time take-offs. I’ve also done 4-day stateside USN trips for SEAL Team Six that took 8 days to get done. I once got a CDD extension for a one-hour leg.

At Hickam once, I rode out with a Gucci crew, as the Os we showed at the plane 1+30 prior to takeoff. The KC-10 crew was back and headed to billeting before we started the day. To Kadena, no less.

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