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D L X
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Americans Rubbing Off On Euros, Or Vice Versa?

Wed Apr 25, 2001 5:28 pm

CFalk (who by the way was too chicken to start this thread himself j/k) and I have a small disagreement to discuss with yall.

In another thread, he stated that American [moral] trends and bad habits slowly work their way over to Europe and spread there.

The way I see it, the exact opposite occurs. For instance, most Europeans view Americans as pretty prudish when it comes to activities the bedroom. With all the complaints by the elder generation of the increasing role of sex in daily life, you'd think we led the world in this behavior. In fact, we are quite nicely placed between Asia and Europe in this respect, but even Japan is catching up to us, ready to pass.

Europeans are incredibly liberal compared to Americans. Universal Health Care is the norm over there, but is just knocking on the door here.

Where are our big clothing designers? Europe. (Sure, they own summer homes here, but they're still European.)

Anybody remember the Beatles? (The British Invasion)

Now, this isn't a post on how I actually feel about these habits, but just a comment on how our behavior Stateside imo is more affected and influenced by the behaviors of Europeans than vice versa.
 
ryanb741
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RE: Americans Rubbing Off On Euros, Or Vice Versa?

Wed Apr 25, 2001 5:49 pm

I agree for the majority of Europe, but Britain tries to ape everything the US does. I think the UK has far more affinity with the US than it does with the rest of Europe.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
Guest

RE: Americans Rubbing Off On Euros, Or Vice Versa?

Wed Apr 25, 2001 6:03 pm

Well, I don't think there is anything wrong with having liberal attitudes to sex & sexuality.

People have to come to terms with the fact that whatever anyone preaches, it is unlikely to have much effect in the bedroom!!

The Ancient Greeks and French had very liberal attitudes to the above, and I conider them both as the wellspring of Culture & Civilisation!!

As for blaming the Yanks for the spread of "fast-food", horrible TV imports and shifts in general attitudes, I personally think it is slightly unfair; this, in the sense that if European culture, ideals & behaviour really are on the decline, then they only have themselves to blame for embracing that which they criticise!!

I realise though, that the most vociferous amongst those that criticise the "American invasion" of Europe, are those that can actually see European society gradually changing under the influence of America, and for the worst (in their opinion).

Personally, I would hate Europe to become another colony of the US, so to speak. Whilst I like America and it's people purely because they are different, Europeans to me seem much more relaxed and level-headed in their attitudes and behavour.

Perhaps in that sense, we are more liberal

The Yanks, on the other hand, get bothered very easily, and can't seem to control their aggression at times!!

Furthermore, whilst you may consider yourselves to be conservative both morally and religiously, there are a lot of questions left still hanging, with respect to this.

For example, why do you still have Death row, yet still count yourselves as good Christians???

Why do you attch such importance to material possessions such as cars, or the newest trend in sneakers??

Why can't you guys accept any criticism that comes you way??

Perhaps in that sense, we are more liberal.

Certainly I am not saying this is not the case in Europe, but that doesn't stop me from pointing out a few contradictions with respect to the "conservative" way of life some of you claim to lead!!

Lots to say on this topic, looking fwd to reading the replies.
 
Guest

RE: Americans Rubbing Off On Euros, Or Vice Versa?

Wed Apr 25, 2001 6:22 pm

Hmmmm,

Interesting, coming from Australia's perspective, we have followed the USA slavishly from the late 80's. And what have we got? Graffiti, fast food outlets and nikes. Ram raids and excess petty crime.

Other than that there has been a trend back to Europe (not the UK).

On another intersting note we have been developing our own culture and cultural trends. For a little country of 20 MM people we seem to be known a little more around the world.

Cheers to the greatest NATION on earth!!!

I have noted that many people call the USA multicultural, but do you realise that there is just about every language in the world spoken in my city alone? A city of only 4 MM people? People assimilate into the Aussie way of life here. Why? Because it is the best place on the planet Earth.

New Zealand comes a very close second.

Cherio!

mb
 
CPDC10-30
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RE: Americans Rubbing Off On Euros, Or Vice Versa?

Wed Apr 25, 2001 6:27 pm

Congrats on three anti-American posts in a row, Mx5_boy followed by silly Aussie boosterism. What a waste.

 
cfalk
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RE: Americans Rubbing Off On Euros, Or Vice Versa?

Wed Apr 25, 2001 6:39 pm

I'll share a few examples:

Europe has changed tremendously over my lifetime. I remember it, 20-30 years ago, as a place where:

- Fast food joints were virtually non-existant. If you went out to eat, it was to a proper restaurant. Also, just about all those restaurants served local food, very very few "ethnic" restaurants, like chinese or whatever.

- Europe was a country where small shops reigned. Very few supermarkets, and even fewer malls.

- Civil Lawsuits were rare, and only concerned "real" damages.

- Kids grew up quite traditionally - table manners, respect for elders, conservative clothes, etc. They generally grew up staying not far from where they grew up, and helped their parents and grandparents in their old age.

- Apart from England, which shares the same language as the U.S. (some would say they are seperated by a common language), the rest of Europe did not share terribly much the tastes in music which were common in English-speaking countries.

Nowadays:

- McDonalds, Pizza Hut, Burger King, Wendys, are all over the place, and are the standard hangout for adolecents - just like in the U.S. 20 years ago. Also, now you have ethnic food all over the place, and traditional restaurants are on the decline.

- Supermarkets and shopping malls are the only way to go now. In 1989 in Geneva, we had one mall in the area, and just 2 or 3 Hypermarkets. Now we have about half a dozen malls and tons of hypermarkets - for a city of 300,000 people. Only old people go to the small shops anymore.

- Europe is getting more and more litigious. Lawsuits against tobacco companies for instance, long a subject of ridicule here, are now taking place, along with all sorts of similar bogus attempts to make money off of vague damages.

- Kids have become vile, disrespectful, and think about me-me-me, similar to what I remember when I was in school in the U.S. at the time. At that age, I frequently returned to Switzerland and had many friends my age, so I could see the contrast. I have a daughter of 14, and looking at her friends, they are as bad or worse than I remember.

- Every musical fad in the U.S. tends to come to continental europe around 10 years later. This was true for disco, rap, etc. In the past few years however, perhaps because of more communication via the internet, that 10 year delay has shortened dramatically.

That's a few. Concerning your points, about healthcare and such, that's just socialism - a concept born in Europe.

Your point about sexual morality is interesting. I suppose it can be somewhat explained by the heavy religious influence in the U.S., settled first by puritans, and whose ideals tend to stick around a long time. That would be a subject of another thread, maybe  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Cheers,

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Guest

RE: Americans Rubbing Off On Euros, Or Vice Versa?

Wed Apr 25, 2001 6:55 pm

CPDC10-30,

""Congrats on three anti-American posts in a row, Mx5_boy followed by silly Aussie boosterism. ""

Actually, why is my Aussie boosterism considered as bad? We see constant AMERICAN boosterism all the time? Am I not allowed to suggest that my country may well have issues that are far better than the so called greatest nation on earth? I would have thought better of you being a Frenchman oops sorry opps Brittish ooops Canadian!

I think if you read Cfalks post you will see the yuckiness that the rest of us have to put up with of American commercialism.

As I said before, American culture that has been forced upon us by advertisers etc etc has been nothing short of very bad.

Thankfully the nation of Australia has reconciled it's differences and cultural attitudes thanks to the major event of the Olympics and we have come of age, so to speak.

We no longer look towards the 'mother country' (UK) or the USA.

Gosh, wouldn't it be frightening if Aussie culture ruled the world? Ha Ha.

Lighten up!

mb
 
ryanb741
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RE: Americans Rubbing Off On Euros, Or Vice Versa?

Wed Apr 25, 2001 7:03 pm

I think that certainly in terms of business, and adopting 'best practice', then the US has been a role model, certainly in the UK. If something works, and works well, then why not adopt it.

However, I am sensing now a slight tendency to move away from the US in this respect. The US is experiencing a downturn in economic activity at the moment - something which the UK is reasonably well-equipped to withstand (or at least minimise) because of some of the different practices now being adopted.

Pizza Hut, McDonald's etc. In countries like France, they have embraced the concept of American fast-food, but have added a Gallic flavour - hence the salads, beer etc which you can buy in McDonald's. The menu differs wildly from that in the US and UK. Also, the reliance on fast-food is lower, again with the exception of the UK which is content to ally itself more with the US in all it does (primarily because a lot of Brits have an inherent distrust of the rest of Europe - namely France and Germany).

One thing that makes me laugh is when I visit Australia, which has a cultural mind-set almost identical to that of the UK, and yet many Aussies state that they can't stand those 'Pommie Bastards' and say how different they are! However, much of Australia functions and thinks almost exactly like the UK, just with better weather of course(!) and worse beer.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
ryanb741
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RE: Americans Rubbing Off On Euros, Or Vice Versa?

Wed Apr 25, 2001 7:05 pm

By the way, this is a really interesting topic! Smile
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
D L X
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RE: Americans Rubbing Off On Euros, Or Vice Versa?

Wed Apr 25, 2001 7:09 pm


"Furthermore, whilst you may consider yourselves to be conservative both morally and religiously, there are a lot of questions left still hanging, with respect to this.

For example, why do you still have Death row, yet still count yourselves as good Christians??? "

Well, we're NOT a Christian country. We are very secular in our laws and government. Besides, the good Christians aren't the ones on death row.

"The Yanks, on the other hand, get bothered very easily, and can't seem to control their aggression at times!! "
Umm, you've never been here have you? You gotta realize that this country is very large, and incredibly diverse in personality. You should be careful where you wave your generalization stick.


"blaming the Yanks for ... horrible TV imports "
Wait, I thought that you guys liked horrible TV? You don't think we make this stuff for our own consumption do you? Please. We hate that crap. We figured you guys could appreciate it.  Big grin


"I have noted that many people call the USA multicultural, but do you realise that there is just about every language in the world spoken in my city alone? "
Hmm. You pick the ONE city in Australia where that may be the case, but if you go to Townsville, or Hobart, not only is every last person white, but they all only speak English. (A few tourguides may speak some Japanese.)

Go to New York City, or Los Angeles, or Chicago, or San Francisco, or Philadelphia, or Washington, or Miami and you'll see just how diverse this country really is. BUT, again, what the hell does this have to do with Americans rubbing off on Euros?


"Every musical fad in the U.S. tends to come to continental europe around 10 years later."

Umm... no. Our music for the most part comes from overseas. Our biggest hits are mostly from Canadians (Alanis Morisette), Australians (INXS, Savage Garden, Natalie Imbruglia), British (Spice Girls), etc. The only "in-house" music that is almost purely American is Rap. So, you can't blame us for bad music. (Cuz we all know Rap is great.  Big grin)
 
CPDC10-30
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RE: Americans Rubbing Off On Euros, Or Vice Versa?

Wed Apr 25, 2001 7:13 pm

Since when did I suddenly become part French? I am a citizen of Canada, the United Kingdom and New Zealand. Paris is where my heart is...but that doesn't make me French  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

It has been argued that it is "American culture" that is causing the strip malls, fast food joints etc. But I don't buy that. It is the simple capitalist motive...which you should be very familiar with as an equities trader. You invest money in something now in order to gain a return on the investment at some point in the future. While we bemoan the downfall of traditional culture, we have ourselves to blame. If everyone in Europe hated McDonalds, they wouldn't buy their burgers! Same thing for the shopping malls. Obviously the customers must be gaining some source of satisfaction to be gracing these establishments with their patronage. The business is making money, so they continue to expand.

If you don't like it, don't just say so. Don't give them your money!

You can say that "Australia is better in this...better in that etc" and it may well be true in some ways. I could argue that New Zealand and Canada are better than Australia. But the only purpose I can see of you doing that is to draw the ire of our rad-right troika and cause an explosion of sorts.

 
CPDC10-30
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RE: Canadians Rubbing Off On Americans

Wed Apr 25, 2001 7:26 pm

Dialects are merging, as might our dollars
How to say 'caught'


Tom Arnold
National Post
There is a growing movement toward a uniform North American English, and while Canadians are indeed picking up American habits, some U.S. residents are adopting Canadian pronunciations, new research suggests.

"There are some obvious Americanizations happening to Canadian English such as the loss of the traditional word chesterfield to the American word couch," said Dr. Jack Chambers, a linguistics professor at the University of Toronto. "But we also see some American states adapting our pronunciation of the word 'caught' so that it sounds like 'cot' for example.

"What we are seeing is widespread merging rather than widespread Americanization."

For decades Canadian English was the only standard of English in the world that pronounced cot and caught the same way, as well as chock and chalk, not and naught, rot and wrought and tot and taught.

Known as the low back vowel merger, this was unique to Canada, since first being reported in 1850, but is now emerging as the dialect of choice in a growing region of the United States.

The research also finds Canadian speech is not being Americanized to the extent once thought.

"Canadians do fear that they're becoming Americanized and, no they are not," said Mary MacKeracher, a graduate student in the university's linguistics department who has closely monitored the team's data. "There is still a distinctive Canadian speech."

While young Canadians pick up the U.S. pronunciation of the letter "z" as "zee" from U.S. programs such as Sesame Street, they revert to the Canadian way as they get older, Ms. MacKeracher added.

The data indicate that in the Niagara Falls region, though the Canadian and American populations are less than a kilometre apart, Americans still use long "i" sounds in anti- and semi- when pronouncing words such as anti-pollution and semi-final, while Canadians use a long "e" sound.

The dialect research surveyed nearly 3,500 Canadians and Americans from border areas in the continent's central and eastern regions.

Researchers looked at how words and pronunciations are used in different parts of the country in an 81-question survey, testing usage in Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick and the states of New York, New Hampshire, Maine, Michigan and Vermont. Another 1,500 residents from these regions are currently being examined. The team is expecting to move its research west.

Ms. MacKeracher pointed out that in some cases Canadians are adopting the U.S. dialect and U.S. residents are picking up the Canadian variance.

"The past tense of the word dive is dove," she said of Canadians adopting a U.S. variant.

"It is the new one, the old one is dived, but everybody across North America is now saying dove. This change has taken place very quickly. Almost everybody said dived and within 70 years almost everybody says dove."

It is now a continent-wide feature.

Another example of a U.S.-Canadian convergence, said Ms. MacKeracher, is the past tense of the verb sneak.

"The old form is sneaked and now everybody assumes it is snuck and that it has always been snuck. It hasn't."

 
Guest

RE: Americans Rubbing Off On Euros, Or Vice Versa?

Wed Apr 25, 2001 7:42 pm

CPDC10-30,

Give me a break dude? New South Wales represents around 1/3 of the population of Australia and we do think that we represent the majority of Australians when in actual fact the country is so big it's dimorphic!

The general trend in Australia at the moment is against the so called "American Imperialism". Whether that is from advertisements or TV is beside the point. We are as a nation far more removed from the rest of the world than anywhere else.

What we do well is take the best the rest of the world has to offer and adapt it to our local standards. No one would have thought that the pissy little country at the bottom of the world would have been able to hold such a great Olympics. And may I add the olympics voted the friendliest and best ever.

The fact that the citizens of this city and others from around the country made sure that this was the best ever, without traffic jams and without riots or bombs, just goes to prove what?

Perhaps I can be so bold as to say, YES the city I live in has a lifestlyle and culture that is safe and effective with 'socialist' overtones?

You can't sell Australians American products unless you do the advertising the "aussie way".

And may I dare ask what city has been the top tourist destination for the last few years? What airlines have been the safest in the world?

When the aussies on this board laugh to themselves at the various tub-thumping that goes on, we sit back and go... yeah so what.

Except for me of course!

"Australians all let us rejoice,
for we are young and free!"

mb
 
CPDC10-30
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RE: Americans Rubbing Off On Euros, Or Vice Versa?

Wed Apr 25, 2001 7:58 pm

What airlines have been the safest in the world?


That would be Air Canada  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

You can't sell Australians American products unless you do the advertising the "aussie way".

No one would have thought that the pissy little country at the bottom of the world would have been able to hold such a great Olympics. And may I add the olympics voted the friendliest and best ever.


I'm looking at this Mx5_boy (I won't generalize all Aussies) tubthumping and I'm thinking...thinking... "what an insecure crybaby". No one has yet to criticize Australia yet the only thing you have done is toot your own friggin' horn and proclaim your superiority. The Olympics were great. No one is disputing that.

But give it up already. You're claiming to be the voice of reason yet you're stooping to the level of the unworldly yanks in your methods.

 
D L X
Topic Author
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RE: Americans Rubbing Off On Euros, Or Vice Versa?

Wed Apr 25, 2001 8:00 pm

"And may I add the olympics voted the friendliest and best ever. "


MX5, come on now.

The IOC President traditionally states that each Olympiad is "the best ever." You're not special.

Oh, and way to stay on topic. Again.
 
Guest

RE: Americans Rubbing Off On Euros, Or Vice Versa?

Wed Apr 25, 2001 8:07 pm

C#PO,

(sorry) No you are right, it is a little childish, but on some issues we in aussie land, do have a little more realism about us. The reason no one can critisise Australia is because we have done our best recently, and the funny and strange thing is we are so proud of that.

No one expected in this country that we could possibly hold the best olympic games ever. We thought we would fuck it up, but that inferiorority complex has turned around!

You have to remeber we are at the bottom of the earth and sometimes always looking to the rest of the world as to how things are "done".

Cheers cutey!

mb
 
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johnboy
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RE: Americans Rubbing Off On Euros, Or Vice Versa?

Thu Apr 26, 2001 1:21 am

The IOC President traditionally states that each Olympiad is the "best ever."

Except Atlanta's.  Big grin
 
travelin man
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RE: Americans Rubbing Off On Euros, Or Vice Versa?

Thu Apr 26, 2001 2:45 am

I don't know why people are acting like Americans are somehow forcing people to eat fast food and watch "Baywatch" reruns!

"Yankee Imperialism"?? What a crock! People will watch what they want to watch, buy what they want to buy, and eat what they want to eat. If those things happen to be American, so be it. But PLEASE don't act like it is being forced upon anybody unwillingly! Everyone makes choices!

I happen to be an American who will be eating Thai food for lunch, while listening to the latest U2 CD in my Japanese car. Perhaps I will watch the tapes of "Absolutely Fabulous" when I get home.

It's a global society now, with the free flow of information, goods, and people. I think everyone is rubbing off on each other! (and please don't give me this Yankee invasion crap...)
 
Guest

RE: Americans Rubbing Off On Euros, Or Vice Versa?

Thu Apr 26, 2001 7:09 am

Ok this is turning bad. but for once I have to agree with N312RC about his comment on the olympics.
 
D L X
Topic Author
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RE: Americans Rubbing Off On Euros, Or Vice Versa?

Fri Apr 27, 2001 5:19 am

Travelin man, that's an excellent point. It's hardly imperialism if everyone in the other countries wants to buy our stuff, and it would be stupid if everyone wants to buy our stuff and we don't sell it to them.


(And Tub Thumping is a song from overseas.)
 
LH423
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Canadian Speech?!

Fri Apr 27, 2001 8:46 am

Well, thanks for the article CPDC10-30. I honestly didn't know I, like almost everyone else I know, talks like Canadians. Well, I never said "aboot"  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
L-188
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RE: Americans Rubbing Off On Euros, Or Vice Versa?

Fri Apr 27, 2001 10:54 am

I read that article a couple of days ago too.. I thought that it was pretty good also.

We are just witnessing the globalzation of culture. Eventually we will all be talking the same.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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seb146
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RE: Americans Rubbing Off On Euros, Or Vice Versa?

Fri Apr 27, 2001 3:30 pm

It goes both ways. I live in Seattle Washington and on TV, I can see news from Japan, England, France and Canada. The news casters in those countrys seem upset when something like children killing children occur. Dan Rather, Peter Jennings and the like just report and go on to how the stocks did. Somewhere along the way, this country lost it's soul. Those of you that would be quick to say we have lost our Christianity should think about the last time you and your family went to church. It has nothing to do with music, fast food or supermarkets. Parents need to get involved in their childrens lives. Whether you are in London England, Sydney NSW or Dallas Texas. The bottom line in my opinion is all countries influence each other but it is up to the individual to make this place liveable. Where else is there to go?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
tupolev154b2
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RE: Americans Rubbing Off On Euros, Or Vice Versa?

Sat Apr 28, 2001 5:16 am

Mx5_boy, if Aussies happen to find and like things that are American, let it be. Stop sitting on your ass and whining. No one is "slavishly" forcing you to follow American culture. You are making the choice to do so, so don't blame us.

"I have noted that many people call the USA multicultural, but do you realise that there is just about every language in the world spoken in my city alone?"

And how many cities are like that in Australia, sir?

"We no longer look towards the 'mother country' (UK) or the USA."

Fine. No one is forcing you to.

"Cheers to the greatest NATION on earth!!!"

What a crock of shit!! Is this designed to purposely set people off?

"And may I dare ask what city has been the top tourist destination for the last few years? What airlines have been the safest in the world?"

British Airways? Just remember that your "Official Airline of the 2000 Olympics" was forced to ground its 767's after shoddy maintenance.

"Australians all let us rejoice, for we are young and free!"

In case your mindless ignorance is too bloated, let me remind you that so are all of the nations on the Earth.

"C#PO"

Ha! Stop resulting to name-calling if you are too idiotic to support your arguments in a reasonable way.

"No one expected in this country that we could possibly hold the best olympic games ever."

Yeah, tell me how they were better than all of the other ones.

"The Yanks, on the other hand, get bothered very easily, and can't seem to control their aggression at times!!"

Heh, another example of the cowardice of the ever-so- great Mx5_boy! Really, if you want to launch provocative attacks, don't be afraid to be swarmed on by a number of ticked-off people, sir! And yes, we can accept criticism, but just not bloated accusations (like yours in case you are too ignorant to understand) against us.

Really, stop launching provocative attacks and then being a crybaby when someone responds.
 
WorldTraveller
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RE: Americans Rubbing Off On Euros, Or Vice Versa?

Sat Apr 28, 2001 7:43 am

Let's pick the best of both Europe and America!

After a few weeks in the US, I am starting to long for Europe........but when I am home again, it doesn't take too long for me to long for the US again...

I definetively favor appreciating the benefits both societies have to offer.

Best regards
the WorldTraveller
 
Guest

RE: Americans Rubbing Off On Euros, Or Vice Versa?

Sat Apr 28, 2001 7:52 am

WT,

I completely agree. It's a pleasure to have members who contribute their rational thoughts around here.

Rgds
CP
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: Americans Rubbing Off On Euros, Or Vice Versa?

Sun Apr 29, 2001 11:06 am

Oh be quiet all of you bashing the USA, if it wasent for us Airliners.net wouldnt be here! Who the hell do you think made all the software you run on who the hell do you think made the internet work? Who the heck do you think powers this whole thing? Who the hell do you think made your computer? The USA did so be glad! And Australia is NOT better than the USA, if it was everyone would be moving there not here.
 
DG_pilot
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Mx5_boy

Sun Apr 29, 2001 3:35 pm

""The general trend in Australia at the moment is against the so called "American Imperialism".""

I never knew we were gaining hold of so many new far-off lands!!! Hell, I never even knew there was a war down there!? Well, that's what you make it sound like anyway.

And don't blame us for the widespread use of US products and media--you are the ones who provided a market for them!!

"...would have been able to hold such a great Olympics. And may I add the olympics voted the friendliest and best ever."

WOW, the Olympics! You make such a big deal out of a short event that most people could care less about. Personally, I think the modern Olympics are crap.

"What airlines have been the safest in the world?"

You'll have to give me accepted numbers for that. However, I do have some for you. While these are for general aviation, the two types--GA and the airlines-- usually are proportional to each other as far as safety numbers are concerned. See below:

"A number of claims were made about safety levels in Australia compared to elsewhere. The statements prompted AOPA of Australia to produce a specific report addressing the claims made. The report has been forwarded to the NTSB for separate verification of the claims.
AOPA of Australia is absolutely confident that the contents of the report will stand any scrutiny, as only publicly available data was use, from NTSB, ATSB, Boeing, UK CAA and other publicly available official sources.
What the study makes clear is just how good the US overall safety record is, compared to ANY other country that published believable statistics. Using ONLY conventionally accepted measures of accidents per 100,000 hours, Australian GA is about 50% worse than US. Furthermore, we cannot show the steady across the board reductions so evident in US results.
Even the Australian ATSB publicly acknowledge that we have made little progress in improving our air safety outcomes in the same period. During the period CASA has made these claims, including the National Press Club transcripts, the biggest aviation insurer in Australian , the AAUP, the Australian Aviation Underwriting Pool, and the ASFA, the Air Safety Foundation of Australia have all published views agreeing with AOPA of Australia, and thereby disagreeing with the statements by CASA. By comparison with European countries with any GA at all, Australia looks much better. The significant western European members of ECAC/JAA have accidents rates three to four times the US rate.
If you look at the AOPA of Australia report, the excellent US outcomes are very evident, and the very serious shortcomings of the CASA statements are very obvious.
W.J.R (Bill) Hamilton, MAIAA.
PRESIDENT
AOPA of Australia.

You catch this: "Using ONLY conventionally accepted measures of accidents per 100,000 hours, Australian GA is about 50% worse than US."

Wow! Your GA 50% worse!--and just to think, you only have a fraction of the air traffic we do! Don't go bragging about too much.

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Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos