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cfalk
Topic Author
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Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sat Apr 28, 2001 1:27 am

Well this guy is finally going to pay the piper. But lethal injection is too humane for this guy. I think the punishment should fit the crime. Walk him out in the middle of a field, strap on a couple of pounds of C-4 around his waist, stand back and let 'er rip. Let the buzzards and crows take care of whatever that remains.

And no, I don't think that would be "cruel and unusual punishment". Cruel and unusual would be using only a couple of ounces of C-4 and letting him bleed to death. Although in this bastard's case, I'd be sorely tempted.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Matt D
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RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sat Apr 28, 2001 1:42 am

Sounds good to me. The heinous nature of the crime should garner an equally heinous punishment.

I've given this subject much thought myself and would like to expound on your idea.

Although what you suggest is a good idea, it's still too painless.

Let's try these instead. Mr McVeigh will feel lots of pain for all the pain he inflicted on all those innocent people:

Drowning:

Not very barbaric or unusual per se, but have you ever tried holding your breath for more than a minute? Ever accidentally inhaled some water while swimming? It's pretty painful.

Now magnify that by 1000X and see what that would be like for him. Strap him into a shark divers cage, and lower him into a huge and deep swimming pool, and let him just sit there, 5 feet under water for about an hour or two.

Next up the painful scale is electrocution. I don't mean "old sparky" style, but rather, strap a couple of electrodes to his body, and GRADUALLY increase the voltage and/or wattage to where it is just that tingling feeling. Then watch his hair stand up, then burst into flames. Then, his skin will start to sizzle and blister. Finally, his teeth and eyeballs will explode....all while he is still conscious. Finally, give him one last jolt until his body is crisped like a strip of overcooked bacon.

And the grand finale, cover him in gasoline, and have one of the victims (or victims family members) take a ninety-nine cent Bic lighter to him.

And sit back and watch the barbecue.
 
ctbarnes
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RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sat Apr 28, 2001 1:47 am

Before we all embark on the inevitable round of self-rightious, emotivist posturing, we might want to consider what the father of one of the victims of the Oklahoms City bombing said when told of McVeigh's sentance. He expressed remorse saying: "The cycle of hatred has got to end somewhere."

Let's face it. The death penalty in this country is not about justice. It's about revenge.

And the fact I hear this from a Catholic who is supposed to be committed to uphold the dignity of ALL life (not just the ones we agree with) is all the more disturbing.

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sat Apr 28, 2001 2:09 am

You´re really sick. People like you shape the image non conservatives have of conservatives in an unnecessarily negative way.

To all others: Don´t listen to them, not all conservatives are like that, they´re NOT representative.

Daniel Smile
 
Guest

RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sat Apr 28, 2001 2:23 am

This has nothing to do with political affiliations-why does everything have to be narrowed down to whether someone is "Conservative" or "Liberal"??

It's almost as if they are two different cultures or races, which they aren't!

As for the recommendations of Mr.Matt D and Cfalk-well, let's just say thank God no one in authority listens to their nonsense.

If he must be killed (when will they ever learn!  Insane ), lethal injection in private should be it.

CP
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sat Apr 28, 2001 2:36 am

>>>This has nothing to do with political affiliations

Sure, but people might get the impression these two atavistic medieval guys speak for all conservatives.
Whether it´s true or not, conservatives do have the image of being cold, egocentric, indolent people, and statements like the above won´t help to change that.

Daniel Smile
 
Guest

RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sat Apr 28, 2001 2:46 am

Matt D and Cfalk are conservatives??!!

I certainly wouldn't class their suggestions on how to kill McVeigh as conservative!!

They're nothing short of barbaric, and they might aswell lower themselves to the same levels as barbarians!  Insane

Conservatives!!...what a joke....

CP
 
An-225
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RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sat Apr 28, 2001 2:57 am

He will pay enough with his death. Lethal injection is the way to go.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sat Apr 28, 2001 3:33 am

>>>Matt D and Cfalk are conservatives??!!
>>>They're nothing short of barbaric

Well, you might be right, but being barbaric doesn´t stop you from being conservative.

Daniel Smile
 
tupolev154b2
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RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sat Apr 28, 2001 4:38 am

Let him spend the rest of his life in the new Supermax in Colorado and be haunted by his victims and actions of which he has no remorse for.
 
cfalk
Topic Author
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RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sat Apr 28, 2001 6:21 am

Interesting reactions.

First of all, death penalty is not about being conservative or liberal. I hate people overusing these terms, when they barely know what they mean.

What's wrong with blowing the guy up? First of all, it is fitting, and matches what he did to 160+ people. Secondly, it is more humane and less painful than lethal injection, old sparky, hanging, or gas chamber. It's over in 1/1000th of a second.

Leaving the body for the animals is humiliation. Ctbarnes, as a Catholic, you should know something of shame. It is one of the key drivers of human behavior, especially for the criminal mind, which tends to be macho and full of false pride. Such treatment should be an interesting deterant for others thinking along those lines, knowing that his body would be left to the buzzards. And yes, a big part of it IS revenge. I have no problem with retribution.

You also mentioned dignity of all life. By that, I take it to mean the dignity of each person. I submit that by executing McVeigh, we are serving the dignity of the human race as a whole, by not allowing such an aberration pollute humanity by his very existance. Cut out the cancer.

Finally, I just wanted to point out that, while emotionally tempted to make his execution painful, I did not condone such a thing.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
AerLingus
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RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sat Apr 28, 2001 6:44 am

Ehhh, hecchhhhh! Uhg, ech, HEEECCHHHHHH!
That makes me sick.
Get your patchouli stink outta my store!
 
ctbarnes
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RE: Cfalk

Sat Apr 28, 2001 6:44 am

Except that:

a) retrabution is a sin.

b) you do not promote dignity of human life by denying that dignity to ANY individual. A sadistic act committed by one person does not justify another sadicstic act by someone in return. Scripture and Church documents are explicit on this.

c) who is worthy of dignity is for God to decide, not you.

while emotionally tempted to make his execution painful, I did not condone such a thing.

How magnanimous of you.

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
Guest

RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sat Apr 28, 2001 7:12 am

Ctbarnes,

I concur fully with the comment "A sadistic act committed by one person does not justify another sadicstic act by someone in return."

This is as much about being rational in your responses, as being a good Christian in your responses.

Rgds,
CP
 
VirginA340
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RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sat Apr 28, 2001 7:16 am

Lethal injection is enough; The prisoner's lungs will actually explode that way because of it being so toxic. This is what I was told by the New Jersey Department of Corrections at the East Jersey State Prison in Rahway, NJ. Corrections officers who work on B Block have verified this.
"FUIMUS"
 
WorldTraveller
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RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sat Apr 28, 2001 7:45 am

I think we abolished "an eye for an eye" a long time ago...

Are you stuck in middle-ages?????


Regards
the WorldTraveller
 
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LAX
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RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sat May 12, 2001 1:58 pm

We'll have to wait another week for "the long walk".
Too bad.

He should be forced to make "the walk" 168 times!!!!
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sat May 12, 2001 2:46 pm

actually drowning is supposed to be a very pleasant way to drown...according to people that were resusitated (ie: their heart beat had stopped but brought back to life in time) you go into a state of Euphoria before slipping into unconsciousness. Timothy McVeigh bombed a building illegally, but think of the times the US Govt has 'legally' bombed buildings in places like the ex Yugoslavia and killed civilians that had nothing to do with the battle...that is just as immoral as what McVeigh did. Countries that still have the death penalty are pathetic...it doesn't stop any crime, and most of the time they are not guilty....although McVeigh was in this instance.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
DeltaRNOmd-80
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RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sat May 12, 2001 3:01 pm

"most of the time they are not guilty"

Whoa, there. Where do you get your info? Most of the time they ARE guilty. I'd say at least 98% of the time. Its a MAJOR news story when someone is executed and they later find them not guilty. At least in America thats the way it is.


"actually drowning is supposed to be a very pleasant way to drown"

Drowning is supposed to be a very pleasant way to drown? No foolin.......  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
757PF
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RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sat May 12, 2001 3:37 pm

Huh?
 
Guest

RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sat May 12, 2001 3:43 pm


No human being has the right to kill another human being.
When will the US finally learn this ?
I also can't understand why some US States haven't got the death penalty while most of them do. So a human live in Texas is worth more than a live in Maine ?

Even the father of a victim wants him to stay alive.

Rgds,
B737-700
 
757PF
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RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sat May 12, 2001 3:45 pm

Someone that admits to blowing up 168 lives doesn't deserve the same fate?

You're nuts if you believe that!!

He should DIE 168 times over!!!

 
Guest

RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sat May 12, 2001 4:29 pm


No he doesn't 757PF.
Because if you do so, you're making the same mistake as he did, and you aren't a bit better.
 
757PF
Posts: 175
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RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sat May 12, 2001 5:09 pm

Yeah right, B737-700........why don't you try telling that to all those relatives that watched their loved ones blown to bits by that useless son-of-a-bitch!!

Anybody that tries to save that guy is out of his mind!!
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sat May 12, 2001 5:48 pm

you know that that I meant "drowning is supposed to be a pleasant way to die."
I get this information from an independant university study( I think it was Austin University but am not sure) of 22 cases where the defendant was on death row. After they researched the cases and showed their findings 11 of the defendants were in fact found to be innocent/had enough doubt to be dismissed.
By executing McVeigh it is giving him the easy way out....living for the rest of his life in a cell away from friends and family would cause him more pain & suffering than any means of execution.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
Guest

RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sat May 12, 2001 6:34 pm

Aerorobnz

By executing McVeigh it is giving him the easy way out....living for the rest of his life in a cell away from friends and family would cause him more pain & suffering than any means of execution.

You are right on the money here.

Why else do you think that McVeigh himself wants to get the execution over an done with.

To everyone else.

You can judge a country by the way in which it treats it prisoners.

The "punishment" which some of you people are condoning, makes your society no better than other societies which you are so vocal in condemning (let me see.....China for a start).

The legal system is supposed to be for JUSTICE....not REVENGE....and revenge is all that the death penalty is about.

Where is the punishment factor for McVeigh? Death? I don't think so. He is hardly going to be able to think about what he has done, and suffer for what he has done, when he is dead....is he?

The best punishment for him, is to be imprisoned in maximum security for the "term of his natural life". This way you are giving him his punishment. The one thing which I have always said is the major thing you can take from someone as punishment is their FREEDOM.

By being locked away in prison for the "term of his natural life" he is then forced to realise the fact that a CIVILISED society will not stand the gruesome act which he carried out, plus he will also have to live with the fact that he will never see the outside of a prison wall for the rest of his life; which seeing as he is a young man, there is probably another 50 years of that remaining.

And it isn't about being Christian (of which I am not) or anything else. It is about being human. The way some people on this forum think, they are just getting to the Neanderthal stage.

Oh yeah, and before anyone tries to pull the line "What if one of your family members was killed......". Well I had a cousin who was murdered back in 1989, and I hope that the man who did it is enjoying his life behind bars.

Give me a society in which it treats it prisoners in a humane way anyday.
 
Guest

RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sat May 12, 2001 6:45 pm


Exactly, he would suffer a lot more if you isolate him for the rest of his life.
Death penalty is barbarous.

BTW: His execution will be postponed by at least 30 days because the FBI FORGOT to bring in ALL the evidence stuff.
Here you go, why death penalty is aweful. Often innocent people have to die.
NO, I'm not saying this guy is innocent (because he admitted) but still, it can happen to others.




 
Guest

RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sat May 12, 2001 6:47 pm


757PF haven't you heard about this victims father who is absolutely in favor of saving him ?????????????????
 
757PF
Posts: 175
Joined: Thu May 10, 2001 4:10 pm

RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sat May 12, 2001 7:45 pm

B737-700...........

What are the other 167 fathers in favor of, do you think?
 
access-air
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RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sun May 13, 2001 4:28 am

Well the more I think about this, being executed for this "person" would be too simple, too quick and an easy way out, again why do you think he wants it so bad???
Yes he deserves to die, however what he really needs to do is rot in a prison in solitary confinement for the rest of his life without the possibility of killing himself so, that he may be eternally haunted by what he has done. He may claim that it doesnt bother him but it will eventually.
This guy is a MONSTER, he's evil, and has no remorse for what he has done and somehow he must pay. Like I heard this morning on TV one person was quoted as saying that hes probably laughing at or FBI's flubb up.
Revenge....well, Mr. McVeigh was exacting revenge upon our government for what had happened in Waco. Who made him judge and jury in that case??
Let one do what he has done in some foreign country against the government, and see how fast he'd be shot.
Anyway, Death is too good for this charachter. He needs to be here and constantly reminded over and over of what he has done.
Ultimately, for those of you who believe this, he will one day rot in hell and his soul be eternally tormented.
As for hate, I don't hate him, I hate what he did. Because if you think about it anyone has the capacity to kill, fortunately the majority of us has the ability to know better......
Okay thats all.......

Access-Air
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
Guest

RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sun May 13, 2001 4:33 am

I you are really interested in retribution against Mr. McVeigh, I suggest that you should urge the president to commute his sentence to life. Then let the State of Oklahoma try him for 168 counts of murder and sentence him to life in prison in Oklahoma. Transfer him to the Oklahoma Department of Corrections and release him into general population. I am certain that the fine citizens of Oklahoma that find themselves in the unfortunate circumstance of being guests of the State will be able to invent punishments far beyond our imaginations. What's more, they will do it on a daily basis. But that's alright, each night they will make amends when Mr. McVeigh gets a little loving.  Wink/being sarcastic

So let me boil down my point of view on this case and capital punishment in general. If someone wants to seek retribution, that is his or her business. However, retribution should not be the business of the state as that implicates all of us in the deed. Finally, retribution should not include murder, as no human (or collective of humans that makes up the state) has the right to take the life of another.
 
Guest

RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sun May 13, 2001 4:38 am

Still don't get it that some stats in the US have the death penalty and others don't.
This is insane and embarassing for the US.


 
Guest

RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sun May 13, 2001 6:51 am

The FBI should have not found the file till after his death! What I dumb mistake to say 'Look at what we found'. When will the US learn! He will probably appeal and drag it out for many more years!
Iain
 
USAFHummer
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RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sun May 13, 2001 11:02 am

Iain,

McVeigh is not interested in appealing...This is a known fact...otherwise he would have already appealed...he wants to die...

Cfalk and MattD...

I suppose then that I am the only one yet who agrees with you. He killed 168 people via an explosion, now he should feel exactly how they felt...blow him up...of course this isnt going to happen as the Supreme Court would undoubtedly rule this as "cruel and unusual punishment"...but "let the punishment fit the crime"...he blows up 168 people...he dies via explosion...

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
watewate
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RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sun May 13, 2001 11:33 am

Death sentence is the easy way out for him. It also further proves his point of "evil government out to get her own people" propaganda he's out to preach. He should be put in solitary confinement for the rest of his life- with Britney Spears music playing 24/7. Now that's a torture.  Smile
 
twa
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Matt D Said It All

Sun May 13, 2001 11:50 am

I Agree with Matt D. I personally like the First Option he said.

Regards,
TWA
 
DeltaRNOmd-80
Posts: 1979
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RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sun May 13, 2001 12:45 pm

yes, I agree with having him go through the same thing he put his victims through. Strap on the explosives and let 'er rip, and then douse his splattered remains with gasoline and light 'em on fire. Then sweep the ashes up and mix them with fecal matter down at the sewage plant.

 
USAFHummer
Posts: 10261
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RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sun May 13, 2001 1:02 pm

Cant forget the falling concrete debris...

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
DG_pilot
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RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sun May 13, 2001 2:49 pm

Remove this piece of trash from our society for good.
I also like how the libs are like "capital punishment is only for revenge" but then turn around and say "dying would make it easy for him. That is totally contradictory since they are obviously trying to make things hard for him right? That is revenge as well. Maybe not as extreme, but nevertheless, it is revenge. That is a part of the justice system. Criminals must know that once they commit the crime, revenge will be carried out. It is a great deterrent force.

Also, whoever said that they are amazed that some U.S. States do not have capital punishment, while others do, really needs to read up on Federalism and how our system works before they go and spout off about how bad they think the United States is for it.

The States are an important part of our government. It is a wonderful and easy way for the citizens of that state to be represented closer on the more local level--as opposed to a huge federal government in some far away place. Also, our States are suppose to act as "laboratories of democracy." That is in effect what they are doing.

What is wrong? Are you afraid of non-federal governments?
 
cba
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RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sun May 13, 2001 2:51 pm

What the hell is wrong with some of you people! Honestly, slowly electricute him?! Burn him alive?! What the fuck is this, the Spanish inquisition?!

Besides, what makes you think that a lethal injection is easy and painless? One of the drugs they give you collapses your lung, another stops your heart. Not very pleasant. A collapsed lung has a similar effect of drowning. Having a stopped heart is worse. My grandfather had a major heart attack. He said, "It felt like a Mack truck ran over my chest." Not pleasant either.

Cfalk, your C4 suggestion isn't bad, except it would be extremely gorry and disturbing for the victims. Matt D, you're just sick.
 
Lindy
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RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sun May 13, 2001 3:01 pm

MattD wrote:
"Sounds good to me. The heinous nature of the crime should garner an equally heinous punishment. "

What about people who raped??? I wanna die the way they killed heehhe
BWIADCA - Nikon D100
 
Guest

RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sun May 13, 2001 5:49 pm

I also like how the libs are like "capital punishment is only for revenge" but then turn around and say "dying would make it easy for him. That is totally contradictory since they are obviously trying to make things hard for him right?

No what us "libs" are saying is that you "rednecks and hillbillies" don't get it. You cannot punish someone for killing a human being by killing that person (especially when it is sanctioned by the state). That is REVENGE.

JUSTICE is about making that person pay for their crime; i.e. in prison, where they have the time to think what they have done wrong, etc, etc, etc.

Unlike you, I can think the way you think, and by killing the person you are not doing anything but taking away their life (REVENGE), when what you really want is JUSTICE. They aren't going to be able to suffer for their crime when they are DEAD!!

That is a part of the justice system.

Which justice system? The federal, or the state system?

Criminals must know that once they commit the crime, revenge will be carried out.

No Dusty, criminals must know that justice will be served if they commit a crime.

It is a great deterrent force.

Is it? Show me statistics which prove that statement!!

Also, whoever said that they are amazed that some U.S. States do not have capital punishment, while others do, really needs to read up on Federalism and how our system works before they go and spout off about how bad they think the United States is for it.

Well it wasn't me who said it, but there are only some crimes which are federal offences, and punishable under federal law.

For example, you can not be arrested under federal law for jaywalking; an offence which carries the death sentence in Texas.

 
Guest

RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sun May 13, 2001 8:50 pm

USAFHummer - He wants to be as dramatic as possible and cause as much pain and suffering for the victims families as possible, an appeal will certainly do that! He already knows what is going to happen to him!
Iain
 
L-188
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RE: Timothy McVeigh: I Have A Better Idea.

Sun May 13, 2001 10:12 pm

He wants to be as dramatic as possible and cause as much pain and suffering for the victims families as possible, Iainhol......the problem with what you just stated is that he is entitled to appeal at least three times by my count and he chose not to. That is why the date of death was schedualed for the 16. He could have dragged this thing out for years and didn't. Only since this "evidence" was discovered has anybody mentioned the possiblity. Also keep in mind that it was the Aschroft who ordered the stay.

All this doens't change some of the things that I belive about this case....namely

This NEVER about justice and has always been about vengance/revenge. McVey gets revenge for Waco, not OKC people want vengence of McVey

I still don't belive that McVey could have done it alone. I still think he is a patsy

A fertilizer/diesel oil bomb doesn't blow the way that bomb did(No I did not figure that out through emprical testing if you must ask) . There is rummors that a government weapons locker was in the basement that may have gone up instead. Does anybody expect the government to admit that it was their ammo store that caused the explosion?

The government can not be trusted to protect rights. I can't even begin to describe how basic a right discloser of the evidence against is to a defendant.

And last but not lest:

I do think McVey had a good question. Why is it the U.S. government can end up taking an action against a group of people or legitimate target, The Branch Dividians, the Serbs, Iraqis ect. That results in children and other civilians getting killed and it just gets written off as "Collateral Damage" and their lives mean nothing

But a private citizen takes that type or sort of action against a goverment or other "legitimate target" that results in simular "collater Damage" (the kids in the daycare, ect) and all of a sudden those lives that are taken as a side note suddenly are important?

Remember too he said that he would have targeted another government facility if he had known about the daycare.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.

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