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Hepkat
Topic Author
Posts: 2134
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2000 8:22 am

On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 3:10 am

I just got back after being away for two weeks, and am really surprised to see my name being bantered around and connected with anti-Americansim. Well, the truck stops here!

I challenge anyone to prove to me, in fact to the entire message board, where in any of my postings I have ever shown any hatred towards my country, the U.S. of A., and this especially applies to YOU Mr. Alpha1! You will see that you are like an empty box; noisy on the outside, empty on the inside. Well, here's your big chance, prove to me, rebuff me, show me my hatred, my anti-Americansim, and I will forever leave this forum. Come on, don't be shy!

And by the way, WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL ABOUT BEING ANTI-AMERICAN? Isn't everyone entitled to their own views? So what if someone hates Ameria? Is that a crime? Is the United States holier than any other country? I've noticed that whenever anyone criticizes the U.S., they are immediately branded anti-American, and almost always by Americans.

Learn to live with criticism, it's a fact of life. Not everyone will always agree with your views or way of life. And as long as that person doesn't advocate violence against you, I see no reason why their hatred or dislike of your views should affect you.

If you ask me, it all boils down to insecurity. If you are secure about who you are, what you are, what you believe in, what you do, then you can not be easily offended by even those that seek to offend you.
 
AC_A340
Posts: 2196
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 1999 12:01 pm

RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 3:21 am

Well said.
 
malina
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2000 5:17 am

RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 3:23 am

Excellent! And 4 stars before the first reply.
 
Scorpio
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RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 3:26 am

Excellent post! This needs to be said.
 
Dropkick
Posts: 138
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2001 8:00 pm

RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 3:27 am

It will be interesting to hear what Alpha1 has to say about this...
 
Guest

RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 5:35 am

Having participated in several threads with Hepkat, I can say with full confidence that he is not anti-American. It is clear that he is a great fan of America's democratic traditions. I may not agree with anything he says, but he is one of the most intelligent people on this forum. Sure, I wish he would have condemned some anti-American outbursts more vigorously, but I know full well that he does not share those ill-informed views.

However, I can't accept the following statement:

>>And by the way, WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL ABOUT BEING ANTI-AMERICAN? Isn't everyone entitled to their own views? So what if someone hates Ameria? Is that a crime? Is the United States holier than any other country?

No, but an intelligent person should never hate an entire country. One is entitled to hate certain people or political parties, but hating an entire country is comparable to hating an entire ethnic group. Both are equally unacceptable. Hating a country that symbolizes freedom and democracy to millions of people around the globe is even more revolting.
 
Guest

RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 5:43 am

To summarize the point I've made so many times, in the simplest possible terms:

Criticizing US policies: OK
Hating America: Not OK
 
Guest

RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 5:53 am

Hating a country that symbolizes freedom and democracy to millions of people around the globe is even more revolting.

To me, America doesn't symbolise democracy and freedom. To me, my country symbolises democracy and freedom, and the "fair go" for all people (to a large extent, because our initial freedom was obtained thru negotiation, not thru a violent war).

But if I were to say that to some people, and I am not going to mention their names, I would be branded anti-American. In fact, if I disagree with someone on a topic totally unrelated to America, again I am not going to mention names (they know who they are), I will again be branded anti-American. Stupidity at it's best I can tell you.

As Hepkat mentioned....criticism of issues is warranted, and as this is a forum, it has got to be accepted. I have had the line thrown at me in the past which goes along the line of "And you think Australia is the greatest country in the world? You have (a) wrong and (b) wrong with your country". To those people who have said that I have said straight forward like, please feel welcome to criticise my country for whatever reasons (as long as they are based on facts), and I will discuss it. I won't brand you anti-Aussie or anything like that, just because someone expresses their opinion.

And also as Hepkat said.....it does boil down to the insecurity of some people.

I wish I could write more, but I got a plane to catch in a couple of hours, so I have to rush off.
 
Hepkat
Topic Author
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RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 6:25 am

PHX-LJU, I respect your opinions, but listen to this. Before, when I just lived in NY, I felt just the same as you did. I held America and its ways above any other, I thought we were the hottest piece of shit since bread and butter. But you'll see how quickly this view changes when you move to another country, and your horizons begin to widen, and you're given the UNIQUE opportunity to step back and view your country and way of life from a third person point of view. Suddenly, you notice things you've never noticed before, the shadows become dispersed with lights.

You begin to lose your high place in the sun and realize that although your country has it damn good, they are not the center of this or any other universe. You begin to see that there is good and there is bad everywhere, and that everyone, everywhere is basically trying to do the same thing, live a good life with whatever environment and material they happen to have available. You begin to see the problem with such statements from Bush, that this is a fight against good and evil (we're good, "they" are evil), a statement devised to recquire the least possible thought therefore appealing to the naive, vulnerable and lazy among us.

I am proud of who I am, and where I'm from, but I'm sure as hell never going to give in to ignorance, arrogance and that American brand of hubris.
 
OO-AOG
Posts: 1395
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2000 1:24 am

RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 7:27 am

You won't see many anti-Brazilians, or anti-Australians, because quite frankly nobody really cares about Australia and Brazil etc , they aren't very important

Another explanation is that they simply don't try to impose their way of thinking to the rest of the planet, that's why there is not a lot of anti-australian around... Big grin Big grin
Falcon....like a limo but with wings
 
Nik
Posts: 309
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RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 7:37 am

"Actually, the fact that there are so many anti americans here..."


How many people here do you consider to be anti-american?
 
Guest

RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 7:38 am

Nik, you have stated that you were anti american... Remember... I had told you that I thought you were AA and you stated something along the lines of " And you just noticed"  Big grin
 
Nik
Posts: 309
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RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 7:50 am

I'm glad you understood that I was joking about you not reacting to my ten previous posts on that thread, all of them being equally "anti american" as you like to call it!  Big grin
 
lapa_saab340
Posts: 398
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RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 8:38 am

That was very well said Hepkat. Excellent post!
 
VirginLover
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RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 10:02 am

You know when life is getting back to normal when the anti-American posts come back.  Insane

And by the way, WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL ABOUT BEING ANTI-AMERICAN? Isn't everyone entitled to their own views? So what if someone hates Ameria? Is that a crime? Is the United States holier than any other country? I've noticed that whenever anyone criticizes the U.S., they are immediately branded anti-American, and almost always by Americans.

Maybe it's because I live on Long Island that I take this offensively, I know someone who came in the next day after the WTC crying because all of her friends called her up sobbing saying that their fathers were still missing, and the fear that struck my friends and I just this past Monday when we were upstate and we didn't know if we were going to get home because at the time, we thought Flight 587 was another terrorist attack, and the recovery of everyone on Long Island trying to get back to normal is taking is a bit longer when you're in the center of all the commotion that I'm not used to the anti-American posts anymore. You can say what you want, but this will be the last Anti-American subject post I will be reading for awhile.
 
Guest

RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 10:18 am

>>PHX-LJU, I respect your opinions, but listen to this. Before, when I just lived in NY, I felt just the same as you did. I held America and its ways above any other, I thought we were the hottest piece of shit since bread and butter. But you'll see how quickly this view changes when you move to another country, and your horizons begin to widen, and you're given the UNIQUE opportunity to step back and view your country and way of life from a third person point of view.

You're right, Hepkat. But you have to realize that I'm a citizen of both Slovenia and the US. I know Europe very well, and I am dismayed when I see that some Americans don't care about the outside world. I travel frequently, always trying to keep an open mind.

However, I grew up in communist Yugoslavia (Slovenia didn't become independent until 1991). Granted, the regime was one of the most liberal in the socialist world, but it wasn't democratic. When I see the tremendous progress Slovenia has achieved in recent years, I realize that the US played a part to create it. I strongly believe that Europe would not be democratic and capitalist today, had it not been for US efforts during and after WWII.

Without the US, the way of life in Europe would be very different today. Some people on the radical fringe don't realize that, and that gets me angry. I my view, an attack on the US is an attack on any civilization with democratic values. That's why I believe anti-American rhetoric has no place in a civilized discussion.

This isn't about liking or disliking Bush (I'm certainly no fan of his) or current US policies. This is all about respecting American democratic values. One can be a passionate European, while still being grateful for the role America has played to establish global democarcy.

I can try to understand why some people hate America, but I can't respect their views, just as I can't respect anyone who hates an entire ethnic or racial group.
 
PHLflyer
Posts: 788
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RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 10:25 am

I certainly have better things to do that go throught several old posts to see if someone is or isn't Anti-American. Having said that, I did check out Hepkat's post entitled "Time to call a spade a spade".

I did not find anything that I would consider Anti-American, only things that I find disapointing that an American would think and feel. I lived in Europe for 2 years and have travelled extensively throughout Europe and the Caribbean and while I am able to see things from their perspective, I have not let this perspective entice me to think the way they do about my country.

I will respond to one part of the above mentioned post. In the 7th paragraph Hepkat talks about the US not knowing the meaning of War. Yes, the only American that know war are those that have served our country bravely or have immgrated here from other countries, BUT! The members our great generation that fought during the horrors of WW 2 know that we must prevent the possibility of this happening to us on our shores. It is for this reason that our Government can and should take the chance to excecise our influence in other lands. Sometimes we may make the wrong decisions as with arming the Mujhadin (spelling?) in Afghanistan, that sort of came back to bite us.

Hopefully we have learned from Chamberlain's mistake of trying to appease Hitler and will go back into Iraq to finish the job Scott Ritter had started until the UN aquiesced to Sodamn Insane of Iraq.

So to conclude, Hepkat is not, I repeat not Anti-American. He is expressing his views as an American. I just feel his views as they pertain to that post are troubling. Although it pains me to see people from other countries think ill of America or Americans for what we do our stand for, we should not change our views action or desires to appease them.
 
Guest

RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 10:28 am

>>Another explanation is that they simply don't try to impose their way of thinking to the rest of the planet, that's why there is not a lot of anti-australian around...

AA-OAG, if the American way of thinking includes "freedom," "capitalism," and "democracy," then I'm gald that the US imposes its way of thinking on the rest of the world! However, you must realize that many people adopt American values because they like them, not because they are forced to.

Countries such as Switzerland and Australia may be proud democracies, but they have done little to spread freedom to other countries. That's why people who are opposed to democracy don't hate Switzerland and Australia. Sometimes one needs to impose its values on others to create a better world.
 
PHLflyer
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RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 11:12 am

Well said PHX-LJU. Our form of Government may have its problems, but no other Government provides the same freedoms and opportunities to its citizens. We may have 2 cars and 10 Television sets (which may be excessive) but our ancestors and ourselves have toiled long and hard to be able to be where we are today. If other people in other countries are jealous or envious, set a goal and start working towards it. It has only taken our country about 225 years to achieve what we have now and we shouldn't let anyone try to destroy that because they don't like how they perceive we favor or disfavor other countries or peoples.
 
docpepz
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RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 11:44 am

You don't have to agree with everything America does to be best friends with them. You don't even have to do what America wants you to do to be best friends with them.

Singapore isn't the best model of a western-style democracy, and many (and so do I) think we live in a benevolent dictatorship. Everybody knows that govt hates dissent and clamps down hard on it. Everyone knows the media is controlled, or at least largely influenced by them. But so long as they deliver and continue to let us enjoy one of the world's highest standards of living, which they have proven to do so, everyone's happy.

The US doesn't seem to want to change what's going on here. We're like, best friends. We even built an entire naval base for US aircraft carriers to dock, and all our military facilities are open to American use.

So long as both parties have something to offer to each other than both sides can benefit from, ideology really doesn't matter anymore.
 
PHLflyer
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RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 11:48 am

Exactly. We do not expect nor want to have every country in the world a clone of the USA. But we do feel that countries should allow some basic freedoms to its peoples, chewing gum not included.

Just kidding docepz!!
 
Alpha 1
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Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 12:15 pm

Isn't everyone entitled to their own views?

And, uh, Hepkat, am I not entitled to my views, just like you are? And, in my view, what I've read from you strikes me as anti-American. You may not like that, but that's life. I don't like what you say about me, either, but that's life. Deal with it.
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 1:23 pm

GRRRR!
 
Alpha 1
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RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 1:23 pm

And by the way, WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL ABOUT BEING ANTI-AMERICAN? Isn't everyone entitled to their own views?

What's the big deal? Do you like it when people on here slam you or your country? No, you don't. Well, neither do I and other Americans on here like your Anti-Americanism. I find it distasteful.

And Hepkat, I'm entitled to my opinion, and in my opinion you're Anti-American. I'm sorry if you don't like my opinion, and that I don't like yours, but that's life. I have no problem dealing with it. Maybe you should do the same.
 
Guest

RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 1:25 pm

One last thought...

I think that Hepkat was absolutely right to say that we should all broaden our horizons. That, of course, should include the America-bashers. I strongly believe that most people who dislike America would grow fond of it if they actually visited the country (or at least make an effort to learn more about it). Only uninformed people tend to resort to verbal attacks on America. A person who knows America well is very unlikely to hate it.

Mature, intelligent people often say that they disagree with certain US policies. If a person says he "hates" America, he is just demonstrating his lack of intelligence and/or maturity.

BTW, I apologize for misspelling OO-AOG's name in an earlier post.
 
User avatar
OzarkD9S
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RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 1:28 pm

i love america, and the reason why is i'm free to complain about those things i feel strongly about.
that DOESN'T make a person un-patriotic.
Next up: STL DEN PSP DEN STL
 
Guest

RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 1:28 pm

Alpha 1,

I think you are picking on the wrong guy. Several people have made anti-American remarks on this board, but Hepkat was not one of them.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 1:31 pm

PHX-LJU, you have the right to think what you want, but what I interpret from him and several others on here smacks as anti-American sentiment. If you don't agree with me, that's life. It won't change how I view this.
 
PHLflyer
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RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 1:56 pm

After living in France and travelling extensively through Europe, my horizons were broadened and I returned to the USA with a new found perspective on our Country. I came home with a greater respect and admiration for our Country and its leaders.

We certainly need to gain a better understanding of the many peoples and nations that make up this world, but we do not need to espouse their doctrine or even support it.

I look forward to being able to live abroad again, this time with my family.
 
IndianGuy
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RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 2:49 pm

Alpha 1: Turn tail and run while u still can!
 
An-225
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RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 4:33 pm

I personally think that Hepkat is not anti-american. Criticising of issues and policies is necessary to achieve progress. Love it or leave it attitude won't help to achieve it.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
Superfly
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OO-AOG

Thu Nov 15, 2001 4:41 pm

OO-AOG:
You won't see many anti-Brazilians, or anti-Australians, because quite frankly nobody really cares about Australia and Brazil etc , they aren't very important


I guess you haven't been to Carnival! Big grin


Hepkat & An-225:
Well said guys!  Smile
Bring back the Concorde
 
Guest

RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 5:10 pm

Mature, intelligent people often say that they disagree with certain US policies. If a person says he "hates" America, he is just demonstrating his lack of intelligence and/or maturity.

Agreed, but in return, calling people anti american for disagreeing with policies of the US is also demonstrating a lack of intelligence and/or maturity.

Examples of anti-world comments

AA-OAG, if the American way of thinking includes "freedom," "capitalism," and "democracy," then I'm gald that the US imposes its way of thinking on the rest of the world!

Countries such as Switzerland and Australia may be proud democracies, but they have done little to spread freedom to other countries.

This statement is blatently innacurate also.

but no other Government provides the same freedoms and opportunities to its citizens

As is this one.
 
clipperhawaii
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 3:35 pm

RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 5:21 pm

When you are on top everyone guns for you. These forums are rife with anti-American sentiment. But as I sit back and wonder about all that is great with the United States and all that is bad I can sleep happily in the good 'ol U.S.of A.

Critisism is good if the outcome can make things better for all. Outright hatred gets you a GBU-28 "Bunker Buster" Just ask Mr. Taliban and Mr. Al-Qaeda! They can tell you. Oh wait! Maybe they cant!

For those Americans who challege foreigners, I have found the following statement ALWAYS works.(Will the next person wishing a Visa to come to the United States please step forward?) More people want to imigrate to the U.S. than any other country. Why? Because its bad? I think not! If anything, that says it all!
Now before all of you non-Americans jump on The Clipper, I will say this. From what ever country you come from be proud from where you hail and be thankfull that you can post your messages on here. That is what we all want is it not? A open free exchange of ideas that should not insult ones heritage, religion, race, or country. (Hmmm, how American!)
Regards to all,
ClipperHawaii
"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
ryanb741
Posts: 5058
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RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 5:47 pm

America is cool (I've been there loads of times) but I do have issues with Americans suggesting that the USA somehow has more freedoms than, say Western Europe where education and healthcare are in general of a higher standard and social welfare systems are more egalitarian. This is not to say that the USA operates an injust social system but you get the feeling that the USA likes to look after its strongest members at the disadvantage of the weak. Remember, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

There, that's my 1.02 Euros!  Smile
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
Hepkat
Topic Author
Posts: 2134
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2000 8:22 am

RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 5:54 pm

Alpha1, I've sat back and amused myself with your childish attacks on me time and time again while hardly ever bothering to defend myself. To be quite honest, I only started this thread to see how genuine you are, to see if you could really back up your accusations with facts. But so far you have only shown yourself to be full of big words, and nothing else. Loud on the outside, empty on the inside. You have demonstrated little credibility, and I suspect that I'm not the only one to have lost even more respect for you than before. You are entitled to your views but don't forget that opinions reinforced with facts will more often gain credibility.

Phlflyer and PHX-LJU, no one really questions the democratic traditions of the U.S. Rather, what many find objectionable is how our government goes about coercing other countries to adopt the American view. The most perfect recent example of this is Bush's speech, "you're either with us, or against us". This gives little room for interpretation or discussion. You either have to agree with the U.S. or face its wrath. This is what I find very troubling. Too often the U.S. acts as if endowed with Divine Mandate, and quite often to disastruous results. Contrast this to the approach of the Europeans, who believe that more lasting and effective results are achieved through intense negotiations and compromise. It's this puritanic self-righteousness that I can't stomach.
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: On Being Anti-American...

Thu Nov 15, 2001 10:12 pm

Indianguy, fat chance of that happening.

And Hepkat, it's easy for you to sit there and demand that I go back and read all your posts and threads to defend my position. It isn't gonna happen, my friend, amusing as I find that. Apparently, unlike you, I'm not allowed to have my own views, am I? For some reason, someone like me has to back up everything I say by laboring over old posts. Sorry, but no dice. I've told you from reading what I've read of you that you're anti-American, and naively so. That's what I believe. If you expect me to spend a few hours looking up, reading and printing your posts to back myself up, then you're mistaken.

As for the American government coercing others to adopt their views, that's an example of what I talk about. You're very naive. I think you confuse us with the Old Soviet Union. They did that, we never have. IF we did that, we'd be coercing countries like Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and the like, to be like us. But we don't. We let them be, seems to me.

Anyway, I've told you my opinion. We are both entitled to see things the way we wish. I will continue to call them as I see them. And I really don't care who it upsets. I'm not here to be a "neutral". I'm here to voice my opinion.
 
Guest

PXH-LJU

Thu Nov 15, 2001 10:46 pm

Countries such as Switzerland and Australia may be proud democracies, but they have done little to spread freedom to other countries.

I would hardly call the deaths of over 100,000 Australians in 2 World Wars "doing little to spread freedom to other countries". I would hardly call over 325,000 Australians fighting in World War I "doing little to spread freedom to other countries". I would hardly call Australian deaths in the Korean War, Vietnam War, Malaysian Emergency, Confrontasi, Boer War and peacekeeping missions in other countries "doing little to spread freedom to other countries". I would hardly call the peace and democracy in Cambodia "doing little to spread freedom to other countries" (Cambodia's transition to democracy and freedom is to a large extent the result of Australian efforts). I would hardly call peace, freedom and democracy being brought to East Timor "doing little to spread freedom to other countries". I would hardly call Australian involvement in the Gulf War, Boer War, peacekeeping missions in Cyprus, Western Sahara, and a host of other countries "doing little to spread freedom to other countries". I would hardly call Australian initiatives in the Pacific, Asian and African regions "doing little to spread freedom to other countries". And for anyone to say elsewise is insulting and disrespectful to all those Aussies who have sacrificed, sometime the ultimate sacrifice, to help "spread freedom to other countries".

PHX-LJU..you are of Yugoslav (Slovenien) background. If it wasn't for those Australian troops who fought in Europe for freedom, you may never have been born.

I am not saying that Australia is the only country to promote freedom and democracy....far from it....dozens of countries are involved in this promotion of humanity, including America. World War II was not won as a result of American involvement. World War II was won as a result of a coalition of countries (including, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, America, UK, South Africa, Soviet Union, and heaps of other countries) which fought together to fight the Axis. Contrary to what Hollywood may portray, America did not win the war, and did not fight alone.

That's why people who are opposed to democracy don't hate Switzerland and Australia.

Maybe you would like to explain that to the people who have been in Australian embassies and other Aussie institutions overseas which have been attacked at times when Australia has been involved in efforts to "spread freedom to other countries".

Sometimes one needs to impose its values on others to create a better world.

It is this type of thinking which makes this world not a better one, but a worse one. This type of thinking is exactly how Hitler got to have the influence he did in Nazi Germany. Imposition of values onto people is not "freedom" or "democracy"....it is called "dictatorship".
 
OO-AOG
Posts: 1395
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2000 1:24 am

RE: On Being Anti-American...

Fri Nov 16, 2001 12:55 am

Superfly

I quoted this sentence, it`s not mine. Read again my post please

PHX-SJU

I dont think democracy is part of US foreign policy to be honnest. Capitalism is for sure, I agree...
Falcon....like a limo but with wings
 
Guest

RE: On Being Anti-American...

Fri Nov 16, 2001 2:12 am

What I find distastful in my fellow American friends here is their deliberate target of certain members whom they disagree with in entire posts. People like Twotterwrench, Alpha 1, and a few others have made entire posts dedicated to exposing their discontent with these members. I find it very rude.
Have you ever seen Hepkat or ADG posting a new topic entitled: "Stupid American Rednecks" or "For all those America Lovers"
Have these people ever calling us Americans "anti-European"?
No...
-Clovis
 
Guest

RE: Leftseat...

Fri Nov 16, 2001 2:19 am

I disagree. Alpha 1 is expressing his opinion, he is allowed to do that. It seems as if HEPKAT is upset at him for doing that. Its Hepkats problem the way I see it. I back Alpha 1 all the way... I am not going to get into the debate though, because you cannot get thru to these people. I thought Alpha 1 would have realized that by now.

 
Guest

RE: Leftseat...

Fri Nov 16, 2001 2:44 am



Yeah I know, it seems you can't get through to ANYone

You reffering to me?

 
Jj
Posts: 1189
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 7:40 am

To Mr. Alpha 1

Fri Nov 16, 2001 2:44 am

Although I'm Argentinian i think I can also post my opinion

I think that although the "americans" may not notice it, they're a bit arrogant, just see how they call theirself, americans ( America is extended from canada to chile and argentina, so i can also call myself american) and they can criticise all the other countries, but when one posts an opinion from the 3rrd world about you, you start complaining and calling us anti-americans (but if i was an anti-american, i'd be an anti-myself).

i think you should start taking a look about yourself, before saying things about other ones-- don't throw stones if you live in a crystal house.

I defend you Hepkat, great post
 
Guest

RE: Leftseat

Fri Nov 16, 2001 2:46 am

No my Mom...Who else man?
 Laugh out loud
 
Guest

RE: On Being Anti-American...

Fri Nov 16, 2001 3:13 am

Aviatsyia,

I shouldn't have said that Australia has done little to spread world democracy. I was wrong and I apologize to all the Australians I may have offended. However, I still think no nation has done nearly as much for the spread of global democracy as the US. After all, the US has led an interventionist policy for years. A country such as Australia simply cannot compete with the US as far as political influence is concerned, simply because it's much smaller. Again, I apologize for saying that Australia has done "little" for global democarcy. My comment applies far more to Switzerland than to Australia.
 
Guest

RE:Leftseat86

Fri Nov 16, 2001 3:18 am

Your reasons?
 
Hepkat
Topic Author
Posts: 2134
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2000 8:22 am

RE: On Being Anti-American...

Fri Nov 16, 2001 5:01 am

Alpha1, your newly found reluctance has more to do with embarrassment and the inability to prove your tired accusations of my supposed "anti-Americanism" than it has with any matter of inconvenience. And yes, the great thing about our society is that even the emptiest sounding box is allowed to babble its views.

I rest my case.
 
Whistler
Posts: 615
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 8:12 am

RE: On Being Anti-American...

Fri Nov 16, 2001 5:52 am

"World War II was won as a result of a coalition of countries (including, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, America, UK, South Africa, Soviet Union, and heaps of other countries) "

I totally agree with that, sure America played a big part, but so did everyone else. Take ANY of the allies away and the war would either take a lot longer to win, or it would be a German victory.

BTW, you can't really say Stalin and his Soviet cronies were fighting for freedom Big grin.
 
Guest

RE: On Being Anti-American...

Fri Nov 16, 2001 5:56 am

I was just kidding B757fan, but what I think is that some people are so quickly labeled Anti-American, while they really love the U.S. and just disagree with a few policies(Goodbye exempt).
-Your friend Clovis Big grin
 
Guest

RE: On Being Anti-American...

Fri Nov 16, 2001 6:34 am

Apparently, unlike you, I'm not allowed to have my own views, am I? For some reason, someone like me has to back up everything I say by laboring over old posts.

I too believe that you should Alpha1. You are quick to label people as Anti-american (you don't say "I think you are", you say "you are" thus changing it from an opinion to a supposed fact). I too am interested in which part of my posts make me anti american because I don't happen to agree with your sentiments. I do concede that I have real problems with the behaviour of some americans (chaining blacks to trucks and dragging them to their deaths, blowing up their own buildings etc), but then I have the same problem with people like that no matter where they come from.

I have a problem with some of the zealots in this forum and I have a problem with the hypocritical foreign policies of the US. But I don't have a problem with the USofA which IMO is quite a spectacular land, almost as beautiful as my own country.... yet you say I do.... I have a right to ask you to prove what you say. I am prepared to back up anything I say, why aren't you?

You couldn't be bothered? Then you shouldn't be making the statements. I'm happy enough to listen to you tell me that your country is the best country in the world, but ONLY if you are prepared to listen to me tell you that IMO you are wrong and that my country is  Smile/happy/getting dizzy.


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