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Guest

The Modern American Muscle Car

Tue Dec 25, 2001 5:48 am

Hey guys,

I have had many dicussions with friends about what todays best American muscle car is. Were looking at the Mustang, Camaro (Soon to be history), Corvette, and Viper. I have a friend who absolutely hates Mustangs. Having worked in an auto shop, he has had a number of bad experiences with the Stang ("Cheap Power"). Myself, im not really sure about the Stang, not having a good experience with Ford's. But if you look at it, the Stang just might be. The Camaro is going out of production, and from what I have heard, is just a bad car all around. The Viper is just a POS, plain and simple, and the Vette is a little pricy, plus not a car built for everyday operation. I am stumped on this one, and im asking for your opinion!
It would be nice if you could explain your reasoning for your decision, and state your opinion about all the others.

-Tom
 
FlagshipAZ
Posts: 3192
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2001 12:40 am

RE: The Modern American Muscle Car

Tue Dec 25, 2001 6:29 am

May I talk about a 'muscle' car that no longer in production? How about the Chevy Monte Carlo SS? I'm not talking about the 'Lumina' lookalike they're prducing now, but rather the generation before that. You know, the square & boxy looking one? I believe the last model year was 1988. Anyway, this is one car I've wished I had purchase then. It was mid-sized, plenty of headroom & legroom for my six foot two frame, came with either a 305 or 350 CID motor, rear-axle driven, has some bitchin' rims & tires to match, aerodynamic package & a optional T-roof...and they made a limited number of the 'fastback' model, where the rear window was extended over the trunk. Carmaros, Corvettes, Vipers & modern Mustangs are fine, but too small for my taste. BTW, I have a '67 Mustang coupe...not a muscle car, but fun to drive nevertheless.  Wink/being sarcastic To me, the Monte Carlo SS had the most value for the money for a muscle car. Plus the insurance company doesn't consider it a 'sport car', so the premiums are more tolerable. Nowadays, this car is already considered a classic.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: The Modern American Muscle Car

Tue Dec 25, 2001 7:36 am

The 2001 Firebird Trans Am with Ram Air.
It is based off the Camero body but has the power, all the extra features and better styling. As far as your asesment of the Viper, what stats do you have to back up your claim? I think it is a great car but a bit pricey. No sports cars aren't practical cars for everyday use anyway, so what are you really looking for?

I think a good practical everyday car would be the last Thunderbird/Cougars (1989-97) They were affordable, very powerful (5.0 V8 power 220hp) rear-wheel drive, and roomy. They handle very well for a car it's size.



2001 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am
This car kicks ass period!


or



1989-97 Cougar.
Very powerful, yet practical car. Very reliable too.
Bring back the Concorde
 
c72
Posts: 745
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RE: The Modern American Muscle Car

Tue Dec 25, 2001 8:44 am

Sh*t!!!! Those aren't true Muscle Cars!!!!!! Damn......the 60's had the True Muscle Cars! This new stuff is crap!!!!!
 
NKP S2
Posts: 1665
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 3:16 am

RE: The Modern American Muscle Car

Tue Dec 25, 2001 8:46 am

From my experience at ownership, they're both great cars that gave ( and still give, as the case applies ) excellent service with just normal maintanance- The 4th generation GM "F" bodied V8, and late model EFI V8 Mustangs..although I'm referring to the OHV 302 engine not the OHC 4.6 ( never had one ). The Mustang is a bit easier to live with and more compliant, while the Z28/Firebird are more purpose built. While I love the 350 LT1, the LS1 is making a name for itself as one of the best engines made of all time..and the aftermarket speed parts are coming down in price due to it's greater cmmonality. -- While the modern American muscle car is high on my list of favorite rides, I still prefer classic muscle- especially 65-72 GM "A" bodied stuff: 442, GTO, GS, Chevelle SS. Hubba Hubba.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: The Modern American Muscle Car

Tue Dec 25, 2001 1:30 pm

I think todays muscle cars are waaaaaaaaay over-priced!
They are great cars but come on, why does the Dodge Viper have to be $115,000?
Does prodution cost even come close?
The most powerful car for the money is the 2001 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am.
325 HP for only $31,000.
..And to think that some fools will pay more for a 145HP BMW or Honda is plain retarded!
The bare-bones Mustang with just a V6 (200HP) is the best buy under $20,000.
Bring back the Concorde
 
DC10Tony
Posts: 991
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RE: The Modern American Muscle Car

Tue Dec 25, 2001 4:24 pm

Warrior II-

I'll keep this short and simple, I've had experieince with the new F-Bodies and Mustangs, and any new V8 F-Body will leave a new Cobra at the stoplight with its tail between its legs.
 
flyguy1
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RE: The Modern American Muscle Car

Wed Dec 26, 2001 2:40 am

Foreign cars, are much better than anything coming out of the USA now. It is sad to say, but I dont think I will ever purchase an American car. The only decent American offerings are the Vette, a few lincolns, and some SUVS, Trucks. For the Viper lovers, even Dodge/Chrysler is owned by Mercedes.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
DC10Tony
Posts: 991
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 9:51 am

RE: The Modern American Muscle Car

Wed Dec 26, 2001 4:49 am

"The only decent American offerings are the Vette, a few lincolns, and some SUVS, Trucks. For the Viper lovers, even Dodge/Chrysler is owned by Mercedes."

What are you basing their quality on, just horsepower and luxury? American cars are good, I see more old Fords, Chevys and Chryslers on the road than I see older foreign cars, and I don't think it's because the American manufacturers sold more back then.

I'll tell you what's sad, is Toyota passing Daimler Chrysler to become the 3rd largest automaker in the world.

If it weren't for American automakers being pioneers and innovators in the industry, you wouldn't see vehicles like the NSX, Tundra, Sequoia, LS 400, etc. All Japanese cars would probably still be boring, small, cramped and ugly like they were when they first debuted.
 
Matt D
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

RE: The Modern American Muscle Car

Wed Dec 26, 2001 5:24 am

Before you go knocking the Hondas, you might want to check out the S2000.

240 horse/9000RPM redline.



Yes, nine thousand RPM redline.
 
NKP S2
Posts: 1665
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 3:16 am

RE: The Modern American Muscle Car

Wed Dec 26, 2001 2:31 pm

...Yeah, that's what you have to spin it to to get any power from it. "Horsepower sells cars- Torque wins races" Smokey Yunick
 
Greg
Posts: 5539
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:11 am

RE: The Modern American Muscle Car

Thu Dec 27, 2001 2:24 am

There is not an American car that can even compare to my M5.
As a car manufacturer....the U.S. is now firmly entrenched in third place behind Germany and Japan.
 
DC10Tony
Posts: 991
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 9:51 am

RE: The Modern American Muscle Car

Thu Dec 27, 2001 3:04 am

"There is not an American car that can even compare to my M5."

LOL, you've got to be kidding me. That car isn't even comparable to a muscle car in terms of price. What did you pay for your BMW, like $50K?

Well you can go to a Chevy dealership, and for just a smidge over $20K you can get a base Z28 with 310hp/340ft-lbs. that is ready to blow just about anything off the road. Heck, you can get a Corvette Z06 for $48,000 that will suck the paint off your BMW when it blows right by it, is respected much more than BMW, and looks about 287 times better.

Or, you can find an old 60's muscle car with a big block V8 with like none of the technology of a car of today, modify it and it will put so much torque to the pavement and will be capable of running with those import sports cars.

But as long as you're happy with your BMW...
 
Guest

WarriorII

Thu Dec 27, 2001 12:56 pm

You better watch what you say about the Camaro, IrishFlyer will kick your ass for that.

-WSRegal
 
IrishFlyer
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 10:15 am

RE: The Modern American Muscle Car

Thu Dec 27, 2001 1:20 pm

William, Your right about that one. Thanks for warning them. (I hope they know how mean Irish people can get)  Smile

I worked at a Speedshop for about a year and I can tell you that the 310 Horsepower Rating on a Z28/Trans Am is incorrect. We took a stock 98 Z28 with an LS1 and put it on a dyno and its rating was more around the 335 Horsepower range. Chevrolet underated them so that you wouldnt think you come really close to the Corvette. The Z28/Trans Am blows the hell outta any Mustang out their. When my Z28 was stock I raced a 2001 SVT Cobra and I took him off the line and blew the hell outta him on top end. Dont get me wrong, Mustangs are good cars, But are not very powerful and are more for females and the middle to older age people.

Thats a bunch of Fucking Bullshit about American cars being crap. American cars rule!!!!! How many 1973 Rice Burners do you see on the road today????? We've always owned American cars and have never had any major problem with them.

In conclusion, The best American Muscle car is the Corvette. What more can you ask for under $ 50k. Its the best deal on the planet!!!!!

~IrishFlyer~


 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: The Modern American Muscle Car

Thu Dec 27, 2001 2:13 pm

IrishFlyer is 100% correct!  Big thumbs up
Bring back the Concorde
 
alaska727
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2001 6:59 am

RE: Superfly

Thu Dec 27, 2001 2:34 pm

you know I like bimmers and I would pay an $75.000 for an M5 with 400hp 369 torq 0-60 in 4.7 that is a FAMILY car and it grind Mercedes E55 and the Jaguar XJR to the ground in nose to nose competition.

-Vitaliy
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: The Modern American Muscle Car

Thu Dec 27, 2001 5:00 pm

Hey it's your money man. What ever makes you happy.
In regular driving conditions (traffic), I'd much rather be in a Grand Marquis instead of some hard seat German toy.


Now days, most likely you'll be stuck in traffic most of the time. That little high-reving BMW would serve little purpose in these condition. Low-end torque is whare you need the power most in regular driving conditions. Plus the American car is waaaaaaay more comfortable.





Give me the BIG American car anyday!
 Smokin cool
Bring back the Concorde
 
DC10Tony
Posts: 991
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 9:51 am

RE: The Modern American Muscle Car

Thu Dec 27, 2001 10:35 pm

"In conclusion, The best American Muscle car is the Corvette. What more can you ask for under $ 50k. Its the best deal on the planet!!!!!"

Technically, the Corvette isn't a muscle car, because there's no back seat, which was one of the criterion that falls under the category of muscle car.

I would bet $$$ the LS1 in the Camaro and Corvette (except Z06) right now, are the same thing. GM wouldn't waste money to de-tune it for the F-Body.
 
NKP S2
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Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 3:16 am

RE: The Modern American Muscle Car

Fri Dec 28, 2001 2:29 am

Yes, many motorheads have surmised the same thing about the LS1's horsepower being underrated in the F-body. It's ostensibly due to a more restrictive exhaust system, but I don't buy it- The real kicker is the high rear wheel HP numbers in relation to the rated flywheel HP: The rated ( flywheel net ) HP is generally 1.18 to 1.20 of the rear wheel HP taken on a chassis dynomometer...a good running Z28 is belting out 300-305 horsepower AT THE REAR WHEELS. -- Also: The trap speeds at the end of the 1/4 mile indicate way more than 310/325 HP...106, 107. Hanky panky with the numbers? I think so.  Smile
 
BH346
Posts: 3164
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2000 5:50 am

RE: The Modern American Muscle Car

Fri Dec 28, 2001 2:48 am

Too bad GM is discontinuing these cars. The Camaro and Firebird was among the few American cars I really liked. I do like American luxury cars, though, like the Cadillac(We just rented one, it was really nice), and the Lincolns.
Northwest Airlines - Some People Just Know How to Fly
 
sean1234
Posts: 401
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2000 2:52 pm

RE: The Modern American Muscle Car

Sat Dec 29, 2001 5:19 am

Why buy a car when you can get a $10k R-1 , that will do 10 second quarter miles, and 0-60 in 3 seconds.
 
FordLover
Posts: 189
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2001 3:12 am

RE: The Modern American Muscle Car

Sat Dec 29, 2001 1:09 pm

Even I mourn the loss of the GM F-bodies. But they'll probably be back in a few years (the Thunderbird was resurrected, after all), let's just hope they're not FWD. I really liked the WS6 especially. The Vette, I've always considered to be in a class of it's own, more of a sports car. And I've thought the Viper was meant to compete with the foreign exotics. So that leaves us with the Mustang. So Ford wins by default. Not a very glorious victory, but I'll take it. Honestly, I've never owned a Mustang. I prefer the Fox-chassis T-bird. It's the same car underneath, but bigger, and more comfortable. Mine's currently in a state of rebuilding and modification (someday, it'll be done?). As far as the classics go, Boss 429 Mustang, LS6-7 Chevelle, and anything with a 426 Hemi in it. Best Muscle Car to ever come out of America? I'll eat crow, and choke on my pride, and say...............the Buick Grand National. Very fast, roomy, comfortable, and a technological showcase for it's time. And only 6-cylinders!
 
Guest

RE: The Modern American Muscle Car

Sat Dec 29, 2001 1:24 pm

Guys,

I think the HSV Holden Monaro will beat the crap out of your yank tanks.

Link: http://www.autorev.com.au/vehicle/holden/monaro.shtml

I'm replacing my MX5 with one!

**yay**

Cheers,


mb

A new star is born...
 
BH346
Posts: 3164
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2000 5:50 am

RE: The Modern American Muscle Car

Sat Dec 29, 2001 1:26 pm

Sean, you mean the Yamaha YZF-R1 Motorcycle?
Northwest Airlines - Some People Just Know How to Fly
 
NKP S2
Posts: 1665
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 3:16 am

Holden

Sat Dec 29, 2001 1:46 pm

Link does not work, so I'm not sure if it's what you're referring to. It may be the new Holden that we've been seeing in the US musclecar and car enthusiast press...A low swoopy 4 door that looks vaguely familiar with the new Pontiac Grand Prix- with a GM LS1 derivative ( LS6? ) V8. Nice car, except the steering wheel is on the wrong goddamn side Smile -- As far as besting "yank tanks", I don't know: It's a bit of a porky car itself...not that there's anything wrong with that.
 
IrishFlyer
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 10:15 am

Mx5_boy

Sat Dec 29, 2001 4:24 pm

I just took a look at the Holden and I think its a pretty sweet car! I see that they have a V8 as an option! That reminds me of an American car, Instead of some Japaneese Rice Burner w/ a 4-Cylinder, DOHC, Twin Turbo car.

When will they sell the Holden in the U.S.?

~IrishFlyer~

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