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RE: Hail And Farewell, Europe!

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 1:17 am
by Alpha 1
Yeah, Fly-8, it just choked me all up!! Sniff! OO-AOG has already seemingly giving up his national identity to this "greater Europe" idea, even if some of his conclusions about enjoying personal freedoms "like nowhere else" don't exactly ring of the truth. But he's entitled to his own, mushy view of the continent, I guess.

RE: Hail And Farewell, Europe!

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 1:23 am
by Staffan
Good post OO-AOG!!

RE: Hail And Farewell, Europe!

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 1:24 am
by FLY 8
Why ist that not quite true: Freedoms like nowhere else??

RE: Hail And Farewell, Europe!

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 1:27 am
by Staffan
Fly8, because Alpha 1 owns the right to say that about his country..  Yeah sure

RE: Hail And Farewell, Europe!

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 1:28 am
by Alpha 1
Because, Fly-8, he left out one nation that has more freedoms that the EU. And you can argue with me over that point till hell freezes over, but Europe doesn't have more freedoms than anywhere in the world. One nation does.

RE: Hail And Farewell, Europe!

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 1:31 am
by FLY 8
So wich Nation? Please Tell me why!

RE: Hail And Farewell, Europe!

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 1:31 am
by Alpha 1
Correction, Staffan, I have the freedom to say that. But you guys over there can go on believing what you want, even if it isn't accurate. Big grin

RE: Hail And Farewell, Europe!

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 1:33 am
by Staffan
Well, tell us about some rights we haven't got. I want to know what I'm missing.

RE: Hail And Farewell, Europe!

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 1:34 am
by FLY 8
Yeah, and please tell us what we are missing!

RE: Hail And Farewell, Europe!

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 1:41 am
by Alpha 1
ROTFL. You guys are funny. I'm sure, if left to your lights, you'd convince the world that China has more freedoms than the US, let alone the EU. Thanks for the humor!!  Big grin

RE: Hail And Farewell, Europe!

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 1:47 am
by Staffan
You tried to make a point, but not even prepared to prove it... you are loosing your credibility here my friend..

RE: Hail And Farewell, Europe!

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 1:49 am
by eg777er
Go on, Alpha 1, tell us the rights you enjoy as a citizen of the United States that I don't enjoy as one of the United Kingdom? I'm itching for you to come up with something.


RE: Hail And Farewell, Europe!

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 1:53 am
by Alpha 1
Staffan, you didn't ask OO-AOG to "prove" his point about European freedoms, so why turn around and demand "proof" from me? You don't wan't proof to begin with-you're just looking for something to bash! Now, who is losing credibility? Me, and stating my beliefs, or you, and you're one-sided request for "proof"? LOL

RE: Hail And Farewell, Europe!

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 1:57 am
by Staffan
Hahaha....Umm....since I live here, and agree to what OO-AOG just wrote, why should I ask him to prove something that I believe is true...  Laugh out loud

Still waiting....

RE: Hail And Farewell, Europe!

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 1:59 am
by Alpha 1
Eg77er, I did not say that the UK was any less free than the US, now did I? I was debating the point that Europe is more free than anywhere else in the world. Europe has probably as many freedoms as the US. Does it have more? I highly doubt it! You canot infer, meaning from what was not said all you want, but that doesn't make such inferences accurate.

RE: Hail And Farewell, Europe!

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 2:05 am
by FLY 8
Alpha 1 on this I have to agree with you! It makes no more sense to discuss more!

Alpha 1

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 4:57 am
by Klaus
Alpha 1: Pulling that old chestnut out of the fire? I consider myself very informed, Klaus. I follow national and world events as close as I can, and I certainly am not a prejudicial person. I know when I see something that I don't like-and I don't like the present attutude emminating out of Europe. Does that make me prejudice? I don't believe so. It does make me a critic of current European thinking.

That would all be nice and fine if you occasionally exhibited some hint of background knowledge.

Alpha 1: I support my opinions the same way you do, my friend. I look at a situation, and I make up my mind, and from there I argue my point.

I always try to find out why someone says or does certain things before I start criticizing him or her. I may be mistaken, but my impression is that you don´t really care about anyone´s background. You´re fully satisfied if you can declare someone anti-american, hateful or stupid and leave it at that.

Have you ever thought of the probability that really everyone outside the USA is always wrong and always has inferior motives? By your description, that´s what the world is like.

We seem to live on very different planets. We´re lucky that the interplanetary internet connection seems to work so well...  Wink/being sarcastic

Alpha 1: I can't help it if you don't like my arguments, and visa-versa. That's jsut the way it is. I don't need the newspapers or TV to make it up for me. I CAN use such articles to better articulate something I agree with, but I don't use them to make up my mind.

I surely hope you can rise above the level of understanding that you´ve illustrated with Patrick Buchanan´s article.

Mr. Buchanan doesn´t even seem to understand his own country very well; What makes you think he´s a useful guide to the world?

RE: Alpha 1

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 6:30 am
by Alpha 1
That would all be nice and fine if you occasionally exhibited some hint of background knowledge.

And just what do you mean by "background knowledge"? Going to a site that's not pro-American and getting my information from there? I don't need that background knowledge. If you research things to death before you respond, you have more time on your hands than I do.  Smile

I surely hope you can rise above the level of understanding that you´ve illustrated with Patrick Buchanan´s article.

Mr. Buchanan doesn´t even seem to understand his own country very well; What makes you think he´s a useful guide to the world?


Ah, I get it now! If I pull up "background knowledge" from a source you don't like, it doesn't count? I'm no fan of Pat, but he's not a dummy, either. He has his opinions on the world, and do you and I, and I found that, in this one instance, his opinion correlated with what I think about the present situations. Now, seems to me, that's "background" knowledge.

But goes back to one thing: there seems to be a higher litmus test on this forum for Americans to "prove" anything: be it national policy, or their own held opinions. And, when such opinions don't jive with what some Euro's and some Aussies, in particular, believe on this fourm, then they pull out the old card that we're somehow "immature", or "brainwashed by your government and media", or that we don't have any "background knowledge".

Well, I'm not on here for your approval, or for you to approve of how I come to my opninons and conclusions. And I'm not about to satisfy your views by changing how I come to mine. If you have a problem with that, Klaus, that's too friggin' bad, isn't it?

Alpha 1

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 7:39 am
by Klaus
Alpha 1: And just what do you mean by "background knowledge"? Going to a site that's not pro-American and getting my information from there?

No. Not pretending everything´s either "pro" or "anti" would be a good start.

Different people have different motives - usually even more than one per individual. Acknowledging this fact is where it begins. Finding out why someone criticizes this or that is almost always a lot more interesting than just getting huffed up about it.

And it´s very difficult to find out anything without having a little knowledge about where the other person comes from, what the environment is.

Alpha 1: I don't need that background knowledge. If you research things to death before you respond, you have more time on your hands than I do.

I don´t usually do much additional research. (Although in most cases it has become extremely quick and easy with the internet; http://www.dictionary.com also helps) It´s rather that I always like to watch, read or hear about how people live, what they are thinking, in short: what´s going on. Nothing magical about it, really.

Alpha 1: Ah, I get it now! If I pull up "background knowledge" from a source you don't like, it doesn't count? I'm no fan of Pat, but he's not a dummy, either. He has his opinions on the world, and do you and I, and I found that, in this one instance, his opinion correlated with what I think about the present situations. Now, seems to me, that's "background" knowledge.

Oh my. And I though he was what you meant with "I CAN use such articles to better articulate something I agree with, but I don't use them to make up my mind."

There´s a big difference between that and a source...

Alpha 1: But goes back to one thing: there seems to be a higher litmus test on this forum for Americans to "prove" anything: be it national policy, or their own held opinions.

It´s not about "proving" something. That´s usually not possible anyway. It´s about the difference between arguments to a point and personal insults aimed at enraging your opponent. The latter is usually just an indication that one has run out of usable arguments. And there are better ways to get out of a discussion at that point.

Alpha 1: And, when such opinions don't jive with what some Euro's and some Aussies, in particular, believe on this fourm, then they pull out the old card that we're somehow "immature", or "brainwashed by your government and media", or that we don't have any "background knowledge".

No. It´s responding to arguments with insults that´s not really welcome. No problem if it happens once or twice; Everyone has a temper (myself included Wink/being sarcastic).

But when it becomes a consistent pattern with only rare exceptions, you can´t expect anyone to praise you for it.

RE: Hail And Farewell, Europe!

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 8:03 am
by OO-AOG
Alpha1, my post was not against your country but, once again, you are telling everyone how good and better you are. So you want examples why Europeans (EC) are enjoying personal freedom like nowhere else?:

- I can smoke in the street whitout having problem.
- I will never face death sentence and will enjoy a
democratic and equal court judgement, whithout difference if I am rich or poor.
- As a teen, I enjoyed drinking alcohol legally.
- I don't see signs "Against the law" everywhere.
- I don't need to be politically correct.
- I don't need to be patriot.
- I will not be fired for sexual harassment if I tell one
of my female mates that she looks great.
- I can go to University even if I am not good in sports or have no money.
- My private life is and will stay confidential.
- My insurance company will not be aware if I had a speeding ticket.
- I can make a film whitout being obliged to have white and black skin actors and this because I will not be accused of racism, especially if the white is the cop and the black the criminal.
- My girlfriend can be topless on the beach if she wants.
- We don't have to specify our skin color.

And these are just a few examples.
The best example is probably on this website. None a single US citizen on this forum disagree with Bush foreign policies while us, Europeans, are often disagreeing with our government's politics. Probably because we've learned to think by ourselves, as simple as that.


RE: Hail And Farewell, Europe!

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 10:44 am
by Alpha 1
None a single US citizen on this forum disagree with Bush foreign policies while us, Europeans, are often disagreeing with our government's politics. Probably because we've learned to think by ourselves, as simple as that.

That, OO-AOG is where you're way out in left field. If you had taken your head out of your arse, you would have noticed that on the thread about the nuclear contingency plans I DISAGREED WITH THE POLICY!! Did you get that-I DISAGREE WITH MY GOVERMENT ON THAT!! Now, what else do you want to tell me about Americans not disagreeing with our government!! And, if you had noticed before 9-11, we have disagreements over goverment policy ALL THE TIME!

There is an American saying, OO-AOG: politics ends at the waters' edge. That means the when we come into a conflict, we rally behind our leader. That's the only way you can fight a successful conflict-to support those who are prosecuting the war to the enemy. Now, if you in Europe, in all your "maturity" and wisdom, want to critisize Bush, that's fine. It seems to be what you do best, anyway.

But don't go playing that stupid, arrogant old game that somehow you're more informed, or more mature, or that we can't think for ourselves-that's one of the biggest pieces of horseshit that Europeans have peddled on this forum-that you, the "enlightened ones" think for yourself, while we don't. Pardon my language againg, but that's the smelliest pile of bullshit I've seen in a long time. I live near farms, so I know what it smells like.

As for your freedoms that you listed, those are great (most of them), but I don't think ANY of those constitute a fact that you are more free than we are. Last time I looked, Americans can smoke in the street, so what's your point with that? I don't need to be Politically Correct, so what's the diff there? My private life is my own affair-so tell me where your freedom is more than mine? In fact, most of what you put in there is freedom from RESPONSIBILITY, if you ask me. But then, I'm just a stupid, ill-informed, immature, can't-think-for himself American, right? I can't stand the light of the enlightened ones in Europe.

You don't know beans about the U.S. You claim you do, but you don't. You are no more a reasonable judge of my country than I am of yours, yet you profess as Gospel Truths that the U.S. is such a bad place. That's where you have the problem with Americans-you critisize EVERYTHING. Again, keep living in that little naive world of yours. I know it makes you feel so much better.





RE: Hail And Farewell, Europe!

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 11:15 am
by OO-AOG
Alpha 1

First thing, take it easy ok?  Smile
Second thing, I am often in AZ and if I remember well there's at least one city where you can't smoke in the street. Anyway not really important.
Third thing, in the 51 countries I have visited so far, including the Axe of Evil and USA, nowhere I found a country where I could enjoy absolute freedom like we have here. My point of view, end.
Third thing, I don't hate America neither the Americans.
I love your country, I go there so often. I eat McDonald, drink Coke and love many of your movies.
I don't critisize everything, only your foreign policies, and you should be able to understand the difference.
Call me a naive producing big pieces of horseshit if that makes you happy, I don't care you know, but you need to understand that an increasing amount of people worldwide is producing the same kind of smelling things these days, and that is probably an obvious sign that something must be wrong with your politics.

OO-AOG

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 11:57 am
by Klaus
OO-AOG: Alpha1, my post was not against your country but, once again, you are telling everyone how good and better you are. So you want examples why Europeans (EC) are enjoying personal freedom like nowhere else?: [...very long list Wink/being sarcastic...]

Oh, come on! If you picked the "right" perspective, you could always "prove" that one "side" of the ocean was "superior". Either way!  Wink/being sarcastic

With quite a few of the things you mentioned even I know these are disputed even within the USA. And you´d find strange or disputable notions all over the planet if you only looked hard enough.

Alpha 1

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 12:30 pm
by Klaus
Alpha 1: There is an American saying, OO-AOG: politics ends at the waters' edge. That means the when we come into a conflict, we rally behind our leader. That's the only way you can fight a successful conflict-to support those who are prosecuting the war to the enemy.

I agree that it´s right to rally behind your leader if he´s pursuing the right goals for the preservation and defense of the nation.

The big "if" has to do with our responsibility as democratic citizens. Yes, there are critics in the american public. But - I may be wrong here - the general impression from the outside is that most of the american public seems to have swung full force into an entirely militaristic mindset. No space or time for thinking about where to go.

And that is not a good thing. There are many, many tragic examples to illustrate the dangers involved in having too many weapons and too little thought.

Alpha 1: But don't go playing that stupid, arrogant old game that somehow you're more informed, or more mature, or that we can't think for ourselves-that's one of the biggest pieces of horseshit that Europeans have peddled on this forum-that you, the "enlightened ones" think for yourself, while we don't. Pardon my language againg, but that's the smelliest pile of bullshit I've seen in a long time. I live near farms, so I know what it smells like.

If you would actually present your information or your maturity in between all the swearing, everyone would be much more convinced. Wink/being sarcastic

Again, quite a few americans in here and otherwise have exhibited plenty of both. It´s got little to do with nationality - if anything.

Do yourself a favour and get rid of that annoying inferiority complex! It´s not warranted!

Alpha 1: But then, I'm just a stupid, ill-informed, immature, can't-think-for himself American, right? I can't stand the light of the enlightened ones in Europe.

Don´t worry - we can be silly with the best of them! Big thumbs up

I think the biggest difference is that europeans in general are a little more used to issue-oriented argumentation. But it´s a gradual difference, at most. And as with any statistic, there are plenty of exceptions. In both directions! Big grin

RE: Alpha 1

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 2:36 pm
by Alpha 1
I agree that it´s right to rally behind your leader if he´s pursuing the right goals for the preservation and defense of the nation.

In my judgement, as an American, he is pursuing the right goals-the defeat of the threat that attacked us 6 months ago today.

If you would actually present your information or your maturity in between all the swearing, everyone would be much more convinced.

I'm not here to convince anyone, Klaus. I'm here, as a free man from a free nation, to make my views known, whether everyone or no one likes what I have to say.

No space or time for thinking about where to go.

6 months isn't enough time for you to determing where to go? I think it's simple-you go whereever these murdering bastards are hiding, and you make them all Martyrs as fast as you can.

Do yourself a favour and get rid of that annoying inferiority complex! It´s not warranted!

Translation: stop defending your country so vehemently! It's not warrented!! Fat chance. I think the problem here isn't an inferiroity complex, it's an overblown superiority complex eminating from Europe at the moment.





Alpha 1

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 4:52 pm
by Klaus
Klaus: I agree that it´s right to rally behind your leader if he´s pursuing the right goals for the preservation and defense of the nation.

Alpha 1: In my judgement, as an American, he is pursuing the right goals-the defeat of the threat that attacked us 6 months ago today.

Pursuing the remaining bad guys in Afghanistan is necessary, but as Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Powell at least originally agreed, broad military attacks aren´t sufficient to fight terrorism. That takes a lot of international cooperation in addition. And it looks a lot like the Bush administration has abandoned that field completely.

Alpha 1: I'm not here to convince anyone, Klaus. I'm here, as a free man from a free nation, to make my views known, whether everyone or no one likes what I have to say.

Nobody´s denying your rights. I´m just questioning your discussion style.

Klaus: No space or time for thinking about where to go.

Alpha 1: 6 months isn't enough time for you to determing where to go?

Exactly my point! Why is there still no visible US strategy beyond the direct military fight?

Alpha 1: I think it's simple-you go whereever these murdering bastards are hiding, and you make them all Martyrs as fast as you can.

With that kind of thinking, Viet Nam #2 is straight ahead! Just much less limited in space, and this time with an obvious retaliation threat to the US mainland. Still doesn´t look like a great idea to me.

The problem with the fight against terrorism is that it can´t be fought as an annihilation war - especially not by free and democratic nations. We must dry out the supply of fanatics; That´s the only way to stop the regrowth for good. And that´s not possible with carpet-bombings and nuke-waving.

Klaus: Do yourself a favour and get rid of that annoying inferiority complex! It´s not warranted!

Alpha 1: Translation: stop defending your country so vehemently! It's not warrented!! Fat chance.

Your main problem seems to be that you assume too much. You´ve missed by at least 90 degrees. I meant it exactly the way I wrote it.

Alpha 1: I think the problem here isn't an inferiroity complex, it's an overblown superiority complex eminating from Europe at the moment.

I don´t see how someone needs to feel "superior" to see that something is going wrong and saying so. Or is that behind your own harsh criticism of others?

Klaus

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2002 12:44 am
by Alpha 1
Pursuing the remaining bad guys in Afghanistan is necessary, but as Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Powell at least originally agreed, broad military attacks aren´t sufficient to fight terrorism. That takes a lot of international cooperation in addition. And it looks a lot like the Bush administration has abandoned that field completely.

Are you suggesting that any action beyond Afghanistan is not an acceptable goal? Maybe I misunderstood that first line and it's broader meaning. As for abandoning international cooperation, where do you come off with that? There is cooperation in places like The Phillipines, Yemen, Pakistan, Great Britian. Germany and Japan have even chipped in. If you mean that the U.S. isn't looking for the CONSENT of the UN or Europe, he doesn't need that.

Seems to me what's pushing the U.S. into a more unilateral role are the shrill, loud voices coming from Europe, who want the U.S. to negotiate with these thugs, or to abandon the fight after Afghanistan is cleared of these murders.

With that kind of thinking, Viet Nam #2 is straight ahead! Just much less limited in space, and this time with an obvious retaliation threat to the US mainland. Still doesn´t look like a great idea to me.

The problem with the fight against terrorism is that it can´t be fought as an annihilation war - especially not by free and democratic nations. We must dry out the supply of fanatics; That´s the only way to stop the regrowth for good. And that´s not possible with carpet-bombings and nuke-waving.


Actually, Vietnam #2 isn't straight ahead, because this is a war that has the support and backing of the American people-which wasn't the case in Vietnam. And gee, Klaus, seems to me there's already a threat to the US mainland. Do you think that by stopping the pressure on these thugs their threats will just go away? It may not look like a great idea to you, but I don't see any alternatives flowing from you, either.

You want to dry out the fanatics-that's a responsibility of these Arab/Muslim government who have tolerated the existence of these groups within their borders. That is NOT the responsibility of the US. The US, Europe and others CAN give aid and encouragement to these goverments, to help improve the lot of the people in these nations, but it isn't OUR responsibility. The responsibility of the U.S. government is the safety and security of the American people, and that means continuing to hunt down these people and give them no rest and no quarter.

Your main problem seems to be that you assume too much. You´ve missed by at least 90 degrees. I meant it exactly the way I wrote it.

I think you assume too much, Klaus. You assume that I, and others who defend our position have some kind of inferiority complex. Inferior to what or to whom? To Europe? Don't make me laugh!! And I mean exactly what I said with that sentence.

I don´t see how someone needs to feel "superior" to see that something is going wrong and saying so. Or is that behind your own harsh criticism of others?

Klaus, by saying that I have an "inferiority complex", you automatically assume a position of superiorty-or you assume a posititon that I think you're superior, which is a falshood. I see nothing wrong with the policy on terrorism. My harsh criticism of others stems from my vehement disagreement with what I see is a growing pacificistic policies that are eminating from Europe.

RE: Hail And Farewell, Europe!

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2002 2:46 am
by LOT767-300ER
Smoking? ehhh nasty..all of you will die of cancer  Big thumbs up

RE: Hail And Farewell, Europe!

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2002 3:17 am
by Guest
What I find hilarious is that NO ONE in this whole thread has any say in world politics. Sure, we can vote for a President, but could we have voted on whether or not Bush should have used his "Axis of Evil" statement? nope... He decides what goes on, along with the rest of our world leaders. We just have to hang on and hope they dont mess up.
You guys argue for hours and hours, on and on, but in the end you dont make any descisions or make any changes, or decide on any policies. The guy in the Oval Office does...

2 Euro cents (Remember thats 10% less if you want the US $ value)

Alpha 1

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2002 6:37 am
by Klaus
Alpha 1: Are you suggesting that any action beyond Afghanistan is not an acceptable goal?

I´m suggesting (and it just needs reminding that this was originally even the official US positioon) that military action can only be one part of the whole campaign, with international cooperation being an essential basis for success.

Alpha 1: If you mean that the U.S. isn't looking for the CONSENT of the UN or Europe, he doesn't need that.

Cooperation means you´re trying to find a common strategy. And that requires the consent of all sovereign nations involved. The european nations have - individually and on EU level - declared and supplied their support for the fight against terrorism as a matter of course.

That we´re not obedient servants to the USA, but active partners in the operation, seems to have slipped out of focus a little bit. Obedience has no place in the free world. Partnership does.


Alpha 1: Actually, Vietnam #2 isn't straight ahead, because this is a war that has the support and backing of the American people-which wasn't the case in Vietnam.

I wasn´t talking about the home support (wars usually get less popular the longer they take); I was talking about the outcome.

Alpha 1: And gee, Klaus, seems to me there's already a threat to the US mainland. Do you think that by stopping the pressure on these thugs their threats will just go away?

Exactly the opposite! Military pressure is what makes terrorist organisations thrive as long as they still have some place to hide. You just can´t declare war on every country where there might be a terrorist in hiding. Thinking of Oklahoma City and quite possibly of the anthrax attacks, you´d even have to declare war on the USA itself!

Alpha 1: It may not look like a great idea to you, but I don't see any alternatives flowing from you, either.

All that had been talked about extensively in the immediate aftermath of 9-11, so I just assumed you´d remember.

The most important goals to pursue for our alliance (and that addresses all the member nations, not just the USA!):


  • Finally solve the Israel/Palestine conflict instead of always just taking one side. Fail to eradicate this main tumor and you can just forget about rooting out its metastases, of which Al Quaeda is only one of many.


  • Motivate and even exert pressure on oppressive regimes in the arab and muslim world to finally open themselves for reforms. And that includes those ugly, but "useful" regimes!


  • Conduct a fair and credible foreign policy that accepts the valid interests of others, even if your own perceived economic interests might suggest otherwise.



With any of these three building blocks missing, there is no chance of success.

Alpha 1: -that's a responsibility of these Arab/Muslim government who have tolerated the existence of these groups within their borders. That is NOT the responsibility of the US. The US, Europe and others CAN give aid and encouragement to these goverments, to help improve the lot of the people in these nations, but it isn't OUR responsibility.

Actively supporting those oppressive regimes is not exactly helpful, though.

Alpha 1: I think you assume too much, Klaus. You assume that I, and others who defend our position have some kind of inferiority complex. Inferior to what or to whom? To Europe? Don't make me laugh!! And I mean exactly what I said with that sentence.

I was referring to you specifically. If not that, why is it that the faintest hint of "inobedience" by anyone outside the USA gets you to abandon all civility and jump all over the place? Looks a lot like insecurity to me.

Alpha 1: I see nothing wrong with the policy on terrorism.

Policy? Where is it, beyond military planning?

Alpha 1: My harsh criticism of others stems from my vehement disagreement with what I see is a growing pacificistic policies that are eminating from Europe.

Remembering the original strategy and sticking to it is hardly "pacifist". If you actually bothered to look a little closer, you might be surprised...

RE: Hail And Farewell, Europe!

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2002 9:16 am
by Guest
I think the funniest post was Lautir's listing of the "mills" filing for bankruptcy protection.

If he thinks the strength of our country has any relation to thes steal mills, he truly has no understanding of the United States of today and tomorow.

its funny actually.

TNNH

RE: Hail And Farewell, Europe!

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2002 6:33 am
by prebennorholm
Let me have just one guess: That man Patrick Buchanan is American, not European. Am I right?

I don't know that man - never heard of him. And sure I don't want to know him either.

But dear American friends, next time you feel slightly insulted by very strange words said or written by Europeans about America, then please remember this article.

It makes you feel better to realize that there are sick brains all over.

Regards, Preben Norholm